What must John Wildhack consider as he decides Dino Babers’ fate?

[orangecuse]

I don't believe it's the SUAD making these excuses.

Also the facilities spending was necessary. We needed to do that AND spend money on NIL. Can't not have basic necessities. The issue was the several prior decades of incompetence and underinvestment. Can't stress this enough. We can't have most of our teams working out in a little area of Manley that would make a neighborhood gym look glamorous.

Yes. However, because of how SU's brass, et al has always rolled, this is again behind the eight ball. Where the arms race on facilities, etc. is somewhat in the rear view as many of those schools invested in same years ago, we are doing now. So, many of these schools won't have to dump proportionate $$$ into same, but more into the current landscape, NIL, etc.

 

[hoopsupstate]

And also -- someone point to why JW isn't under the microscope here as well. Do ADs have hot seats? If so, his is warm IMO.

The JB -- whatever you want to call that
Football hangs in the balance
NIL blunders
Facility spending (even if it is by donors) seems like a misuse of funds.

We'll see what happens -- I'm just not sold on JW overall

I would say spending $15 million or whatever it’s costing to close the walkway on the east end of the Dome may not be a good investment. What does it do to improve athletics?

 

[Consigliere]

Cant believe basketball doesn't offset things - that program made so much money for the school for forty years.

For that money to not have been reinvested in the athletic department is just malpractice.
View attachment 232738

Men’s basketball is revenue positive. That’s why I specified women’s. Only two programs operate in the black

 

[PhatOrange]

Most people on this board are "coaching industry experts" so he could be quoting anybody. Probably quoting Axe.

 

[elimunelson]

Just to be clear, no one from SU said anything in that article. The author of the piece is using conjecture and an anonymous source for his article.

It is not clear if that source is someone from SUAD. Based on the quotes the source provided, and how SUAD is run, I was be very surprised if it was.

No one from SU would ever say anything at this point. That's not gonna happen. It would be a death sentence for Dino internally and that's not what they want at all. They do want to curate a narrative about where things could go if this falls off the rails completely. It's not out of the realm that someone inside the SU AD wanted a sourced commentary where it looks like it's industry sources and not SU sources...this is delicate stuff. the school is managing a complete loss of interest in the program, a potential firing, and the potential start of a coaching search. This is all done in the shadows.

I believe this is the first step of the process. and it's a step they can take back if we somehow run the table and Dino keeps his job here. JW has to start doing the parallel job of sniffing around at potential coaches, letting the public know that the bank is empty somewhat and give Dino a firm backing so that the season can maybe turn around

 

[texascpa]

The one thing in the article that surprised me was the statement that SU’s athletic department breaks even annually and any funds for a buyout would have to come from donors or SU institutionally. Where is all the ACC money going?

Part of that breaking even could be that the AD funds some school programs, so if we take it from the AD we are essentially taking it from the school. Doublespeak, essentially.

 

[syracuse95]

How many scholarship athletes do we have? Outside of the couple big ones, I have no idea how many soccer/tennis/etc folks are on scholarship.

I don't know exactly. There are 85 football, 13 mens basketball, and 10 mens soccer. Add a few more men's scholarships for other sports, and say it's 125 for men. They have to offer an equal amount for women under Title IX, so there are around 250. At $50k each, that's an expense of $12.5M per year for the athletic dept.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

so the point of this article was to tell everyone what they already know?

Preparing the wound for the salt that will be a loss to BeffingC

 

[Consigliere]

I don't know exactly. There are 85 football, 13 mens basketball, and 10 mens soccer. Add a few more men's scholarships for other sports, and say it's 125 for men. They have to offer an equal amount for women under Title IX, so there are around 250. At $50k each, that's an expense of $12.5M per year for the athletic dept.

Track including cross country is 12.6. Lacrosse is the same. Can’t find information on men’s rowing but it may not be sanctioned. Women’s limit is 20.

 

[DocFlanders]

This is what SU will never be competitive going forward. It takes stupid money and they don't want to spend it when most everyone else is throwing good money after bad at football. Not saying it's the wrong decision, just an observation. And I am finally done fooling myself about turning the corner, and don't care anymore what level we play at, I'm to the point that I'd rather win down a level than get curb stomped by mediocre ACC teams week in and week out.

 

[PoppyHart]

If every AD aspired to be in the middle-of the pack of spending, there would be a never-ending race to the top.

 

[cusefan88]

This is what SU will never be competitive going forward. It takes stupid money and they don't want to spend it when most everyone else is throwing good money after bad at football. Not saying it's the wrong decision, just an observation. And I am finally done fooling myself about turning the corner, and don't care anymore what level we play at, I'm to the point that I'd rather win down a level than get curb stomped by mediocre ACC teams week in and week out.

I definitely understand where you're at. Look at some of the insane budgets for SEC schools etc. Look at Arkansas for example. They spend money like crazy and they still stink.

 

[DPCuse]

I don't know exactly. There are 85 football, 13 mens basketball, and 10 mens soccer. Add a few more men's scholarships for other sports, and say it's 125 for men. They have to offer an equal amount for women under Title IX, so there are around 250. At $50k each, that's an expense of $12.5M per year for the athletic dept.

Those are full scholarships including room and board. So they aren't $50K. They are more like $80K.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

at the end of the day if Dino only wins a game coming in they really will have no choice. They simply can't bring him back with a 5-7 record. I don't think you can sell that at all. Their hand will be forced and they will have to figure it out. It may not be what they want to do but there is a threshold here. He's already been given EVERY opportunity possible to try and suceed here at Syracuse. Doesn't mean it will be any easier moving forward and they may have their hands tied a bit with what they can spend on a new coach but there are still options.

I mean lets not get ridiculous here

 

[CuseLegacy]

wake has a sweet heart deal with clawson. They're never going to be the same after he leaves

No...they aren't the same since Hartman left.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

No...they aren't the same since Hartman left.

They were really good his third sophomore year.

 

[Scooch]

at the end of the day if Dino only wins a game coming in they really will have no choice. They simply can't bring him back with a 5-7 record. I don't think you can sell that at all. Their hand will be forced and they will have to figure it out. It may not be what they want to do but there is a threshold here. He's already been given EVERY opportunity possible to try and suceed here at Syracuse. Doesn't mean it will be any easier moving forward and they may have their hands tied a bit with what they can spend on a new coach but there are still options.

I mean lets not get ridiculous here

Yup. And if they don’t can him now then he’s going to be here for another 2 seasons, maybe regardless of performance.

They can’t retain him and not extend him. So that’s gotta mean tacking on at least two more years to his deal. If SU is hemming and hawing about a one year buyout they sure as heck ain’t buying out 2.

I’m definitely a broken record here. He’s not good enough. In fact he’s lousy. Just move on. It’ll be OK. We’ll try someone else and if they don’t work out, we’ll try again.

People act like the SU HC is like a Supreme Court appointment.

 

[elimunelson]

at the end of the day if Dino only wins a game coming in they really will have no choice. They simply can't bring him back with a 5-7 record. I don't think you can sell that at all. Their hand will be forced and they will have to figure it out. It may not be what they want to do but there is a threshold here. He's already been given EVERY opportunity possible to try and suceed here at Syracuse. Doesn't mean it will be any easier moving forward and they may have their hands tied a bit with what they can spend on a new coach but there are still options.

I mean lets not get ridiculous here

very well said. there will be coaches who will come for the opportunity. the odds of us poaching a hot shot coach at a peer school is prob nil.

they can't afford not to do something if we end up 4 or 5 wins, battered and more important, irrelevant

 

[elimunelson]

Yup. And if they don’t can him now then he’s going to be here for another 2 seasons, maybe regardless of performance.

They can’t retain him and not extend him. So that’s gotta mean tacking on at least two more years to his deal. If SU is hemming and hawing about a one year buyout they sure as heck ain’t buying out 2.

I’m definitely a broken record here. He’s not good enough. In fact he’s lousy. Just move on. It’ll be OK. We’ll try someone else and if they don’t work out, we’ll try again.

People act like the SU HC is like a Supreme Court appointment.

well the basketball and lax programs are kinda like a supreme court appointments if we're being honest...

 

[baggerbob]

Or a billion dollar donation from a wealthy Saudi alum

Unfortunately he gave all his money away, and none to SU.

 

[SUDadx2]

Track including cross country is 12.6. Lacrosse is the same. Can’t find information on men’s rowing but it may not be sanctioned. Women’s limit is 20.

Syracuse University Athletics Programs

Interested in participating in a sports program at Syracuse University? Find out the average sports scholarship awarded to each student athlete, how well Syracuse ranks for each sport, how much money is allocated to the sports team, and more.

www.collegefactual.com

 

[syracuse95]

Syracuse University Athletics Programs

Interested in participating in a sports program at Syracuse University? Find out the average sports scholarship awarded to each student athlete, how well Syracuse ranks for each sport, how much money is allocated to the sports team, and more.

www.collegefactual.com

So, there are 712 student athletes receiving average financial aid of $30,242 each. That means the AD pays $21.5M to the university for cost of attendance. Add in Babers's reported salary, and almost 2/3 of the ACC money is gone before any team travel, recruiting expenses, equipment expenses, facilities maintenance, etc. is paid for.

I honestly can't believe we were ever able to run our athletic department on the old Big East payouts.

 

[elimunelson]

So, there are 712 student athletes receiving average financial aid of $30,242 each. That means the AD pays $21.5M to the university for cost of attendance. Add in Babers's reported salary, and almost 2/3 of the ACC money is gone before any team travel, recruiting expenses, equipment expenses, facilities maintenance, etc. is paid for.

I honestly can't believe we were ever able to run our athletic department on the old Big East payouts.

well tuition since 2013 has gone parabolic for one. I would gather it's gone from say 50k all-in to 80k all in. That's alot.

We love to lament how cheap it is to go to these games and it's great but it really doesn't help the revenue situation how cheap it is to attend an SU sporting event. I would assume it's been flat since 2013 (or roughly around the same spot).

So when you break it all down, the Pitt game at Yankee stadium ironically may be the pennies in the cushion that allow us to elegantly shift from the Babers era to the next era.

I'm surprised that we don't play a game per annum in Toronto at this point. Expand our fan base and collect more pennies up there.

 

[SUDadx2]

well tuition since 2013 has gone parabolic for one. I would gather it's gone from say 50k all-in to 80k all in. That's alot.

We love to lament how cheap it is to go to these games and it's great but it really doesn't help the revenue situation how cheap it is to attend an SU sporting event. I would assume it's been flat since 2013 (or roughly around the same spot).

So when you break it all down, the Pitt game at Yankee stadium ironically may be the pennies in the cushion that allow us to elegantly shift from the Babers era to the next era.

I'm surprised that we don't play a game per annum in Toronto at this point. Expand our fan base and collect more pennies up there.

Tuiton is irrelevant. The athletic department supports itself and in this report was operation $6.4 million in the black.

At the time of this report, Football was a net +$14.9 million, and all ten of the women's teams operated at a loss of -$11 million. So, after paying for the football program and covering the cost of the ten women's programs, the football program was still $3.9 million in the black.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Syracuse University Athletics Programs

Interested in participating in a sports program at Syracuse University? Find out the average sports scholarship awarded to each student athlete, how well Syracuse ranks for each sport, how much money is allocated to the sports team, and more.

www.collegefactual.com

That's a great article. Football revenue is $42,000,000. That seems like a lot of cabbage but you have to wonder how accurate any of those numbers are when compared to this other article that has a lot of schools way above that number and even UB at $40,000,000 for total sports revenue. So, if Cuse is more like the numbers in the USA Today article, where is it all going? Obviously, as a private university, it can move the money around however it sees fit. Something just doesn't smell right.

NCAA Finances: Revenue & Expenses by School - USA TODAY

Which are the most profitable college athletic programs in the country? See a ranked listed, including total revenue and expenses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.

sports.usatoday.com