What needs to happen to be elite?

[Dmcnabbrules]

We are a few days removed from last weeks game and have a bye this week so who about something not game related. What are three things that need to happen for Syracuse to be elite team again? Could be anything, coaching changes, facilities, or recruiting, what ever. So what does everyone think the three main things that could make this program elite are?

 

[javadoc]

We are a few days removed from last weeks game and have a bye this week so who about something not game related. What are three things that need to happen for Syracuse to be elite team again? Could be anything, coaching changes, facilities, or recruiting, what ever. So what does everyone think the three main things that could make this program elite are?

What do you mean by elite? I think we can get back to being a perennial top-25 program, with occasional years in the top-10, if we invest money in facilities and build some bling with wow factor. Then let Marrone hire whomever he really wants to as assistants, offering them the current going rate for a top-25 program. Finally, get the students into the building through the annual fee / free ticket scheme.

If you build better facilities and increase attendance, our current staff would land recruiting classes good enough to get us in the top-25 regularly.

 

[cuseincincy]

Finally, get the students into the building through the annual fee / free ticket scheme.

The students aren't enough to do it. You could have every student in the dome and it would look empty, just aren't enough of them. You need the community to buy-in. And you need to not only win, but to be exciting. A boring team winning 17-14 games going 9-3 or 10-2 won't be enough.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The students aren't enough to do it. You could have every student in the dome and it would look empty, just aren't enough of them. You need the community to buy-in. And you need to not only win, but to be exciting. A boring team winning 17-14 games going 9-3 or 10-2 won't be enough.

This is an elite post.

 

[SmilinBob]

This is an elite post.

People like shiny things type of post, I want to win but obviously that isn't enough to draw 50K from what I read on here. To me losing is boring and winning is exciting.

 

[CuseCrew08]

^^ Agreed, but winning and scoring 40 points is more exciting to the average fan than winning and scoring 21 points. To fill the Dome we need the average fan to buy in.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We are a few days removed from last weeks game and have a bye this week so who about something not game related. What are three things that need to happen for Syracuse to be elite team again? Could be anything, coaching changes, facilities, or recruiting, what ever. So what does everyone think the three main things that could make this program elite are?

Raise money.. update facilities, hire a proven HC or with Marrone hire a proven OC who can score points. Raise money to pay that staff accordingly, raise money.

 

[SmilinBob]

^^ Agreed, but winning and scoring 40 points is more exciting to the average fan than winning and scoring 21 points. To fill the Dome we need the average fan to buy in.

I know it's true but it just seems like it's an A.D.D. world and results don't matter as much as style. Just win baby and that's all I want and not 50 passes a game just to make people come. Of course if they lose while doing the 50 pass thing people will leave early because the game is going on too long so they won't know if SU won or lost.

 

[cuseincincy]

I know it's true but it just seems like it's an A.D.D. world and results don't matter as much as style. Just win baby and that's all I want and not 50 passes a game just to make people come. Of course if they lose while doing the 50 pass thing people will leave early because the game is going on too long so they won't know if SU won or lost.

They won't leave if they think SU could score another couple touchdowns and come back in the last 5 minutes. Peopel leve now because the team is down 10 and has only scored 1 TD all game, not much hope. Down 40-30 those people stay, 17-7 they leave.

 

[CuseCrew08]

I know it's true but it just seems like it's an A.D.D. world and results don't matter as much as style. Just win baby and that's all I want and not 50 passes a game just to make people come. Of course if they lose while doing the 50 pass thing people will leave early because the game is going on too long so they won't know if SU won or lost.

For us "real" fans or ones that follow the team more often sure, I don't care if we win 6-3 as long as we win. Will it affect my enjoyment of the game? Probably (you remember the G-rob years of 180 yards total offense).

Unfortunately as people have discussed in the past, there are only 30-35K real fans that will go to the games. To fill the Dome we need 15K average fans to think "hey Syracuse Football is fun! Lets spend our afternoon doing that."

I don't think scoring 21 points and having 300 yards total offense brings out the average fan though...

 

[SmilinBob]

They won't leave if they think SU could score another couple touchdowns and come back in the last 5 minutes. Peopel leve now because the team is down 10 and has only scored 1 TD all game, not much hope. Down 40-30 those people stay, 17-7 they leave.

Like the wake game? I honestly understand what you're saying and the percent of fans that just enjoy going for whatever reasons as the swing fans are important.

 

[SmilinBob]

For us "real" fans or ones that follow the team more often sure, I don't care if we win 6-3 as long as we win. Will it affect my enjoyment of the game? Probably (you remember the G-rob years of 180 yards total offense).

Unfortunately as people have discussed in the past, there are only 30-35K real fans that will go to the games. To fill the Dome we need 15K average fans to think "hey Syracuse Football is fun! Lets spend our afternoon doing that."

I don't think scoring 21 points and having 300 yards total offense brings out the average fan though...

Yeah, I think there are 30k or so that are there for the win and the rest want to be entertained.

To the OP...SU has to upgrade facilities, win or compete for the ACC title year after year, keep building relationships with HS in NY first and then the rest of the targeted areas. Oh and yes, keep raising money.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Like the wake game? I honestly understand what you're saying and the percent of fans that just enjoy going for whatever reasons as the swing fans are important.

Wake game is a bad example because we sucked through the first 3 quarters.

 

[xc84]

Really just one thing. They need to win. Winning will get them better recruits and will get the fan base excited again. As for fan base, it's not the town that needs to support the team more...it's the alumni and students.

 

[CuseCrew08]

To the OP, I think we need to upgrade facilities to be at least the middle of the pack in the ACC, that includes a major upgrade in the training room. That and winning will bring recruits. I have faith that with the right athletes Marrone and Shafer can be constantly in the top 25.

 

[javadoc]

The students aren't enough to do it. You could have every student in the dome and it would look empty, just aren't enough of them. You need the community to buy-in. And you need to not only win, but to be exciting. A boring team winning 17-14 games going 9-3 or 10-2 won't be enough.

How many students are attending now? I get the impression that we're pulling 30-35K non-students as is. If we could get 10K students there reliably on top of that, the building will be full enough to provide home field advantage.

I'll worry about that before worrying about the "entertainment" aspects of the game. That argument really rubs me the wrong way. I am tempted to say we will never be "elite" if our fan base views attending games that way. You go to the games because it is the thing to do, and you want to see a win. IMO that is what the elite programs in the SEC and Big 10 have over us.

 

[SmilinBob]

Wake game is a bad example because we sucked through the first 3 quarters.

But it's an example of sucking and then they pick it up. The example given was being down 17-7 and it's quite close in comparison.

 

[CuseCrew08]

How many students are attending now? I get the impression that we're pulling 30-35K non-students as is. If we could get 10K students there reliably on top of that, the building will be full enough to provide home field advantage.

I'll worry about that before worrying about the "entertainment" aspects of the game. That argument really rubs me the wrong way. I am tempted to say we will never be "elite" if our fan base views attending games that way. You go to the games because it is the thing to do, and you want to see a win. IMO that is what the elite programs in the SEC and Big 10 have over us.

The problem is Syracuse has NEVER had this type of support, it is a basketball town, I wish it werent that way either, there isn't much we can do about it.

I don't think we will ever get 10K students to anything, that is like 80% of the undergrads... some students are just not interested in sports...

 

[javadoc]

I don't think we will ever get 10K students to anything, that is like 80% of the undergrads... some students are just not interested in sports...

Well then, take their $99 fee and sell the seat to someone else.

 

[SmilinBob]

SU wins the students will show up. As in the hometown fans they have a certain amount that love to go no matter what and to be honest it really isn't a big enough school to have them play a big part of the equation.

Plus let's face it, basketball wins and is 2 hours of your day while football is 4 hours+ and takes more of a commitment of time.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'll worry about that before worrying about the "entertainment" aspects of the game. That argument really rubs me the wrong way. I am tempted to say we will never be "elite" if our fan base views attending games that way. You go to the games because it is the thing to do, and you want to see a win. IMO that is what the elite programs in the SEC and Big 10 have over us.

It rubs me the wrong way that people don't care about the entertainment. :noidea:

You go to the games because it is the thing to do? Really? No wonder we have attendance problems. Going to games isn't an obligation. It's a choice, and it's a choice a lot of people aren't making. Why wouldn't they be making that choice?

 

[javadoc]

You go to the games because it is the thing to do? Really? No wonder we have attendance problems. Going to games isn't an obligation. It's a choice, and it's a choice a lot of people aren't making. Why wouldn't they be making that choice?

Are you making this argument because it is what you believe? If so, that is why the SEC is what it is, and we are what we are. Maybe we should be trying to educate the SEC fans on the proper way to regard their programs, then we could all be mediocre.

It's not an "obligation". It's the "in" thing.

 

[xc84]

The problem is Syracuse has NEVER had this type of support, it is a basketball town, I wish it werent that way either, there isn't much we can do about it.

I don't think we will ever get 10K students to anything, that is like 80% of the undergrads... some students are just not interested in sports...

Not true. They Averaged 49K in '92 and upper 40s many times in 90s.

 

[Upstate]

We are a few days removed from last weeks game and have a bye this week so who about something not game related. What are three things that need to happen for Syracuse to be elite team again? Could be anything, coaching changes, facilities, or recruiting, what ever. So what does everyone think the three main things that could make this program elite are?

Starting Dion, winning our face-offs and extending Q.

 

[dollarbill44]

What do you mean by elite? I think we can get back to being a perennial top-25 program, with occasional years in the top-10, if we invest money in facilities and build some bling with wow factor. Then let Marrone hire whomever he really wants to as assistants, offering them the current going rate for a top-25 program. Finally, get the students into the building through the annual fee / free ticket scheme.

If you build better facilities and increase attendance, our current staff would land recruiting classes good enough to get us in the top-25 regularly.

I was also going to suggest that you have to define "elite". Elite is typically reserved for the top 1%-2% of any group. To me, elite is a top 10 program. For example, over a 10-year period, the team would have to be considered one of the top 10 teams of that decade based on success on the field (W/Ls) and in the rankings.

I don't think SU ever gets to that level, but it can certainly get to the next step down - #11-#25 level again, which would be the next step down, with an occasional foray into the top 10 if all goes well. And by occasional top 10, I mean once or twice every 10 years.

As for what needs to happen, setting aside the issue of facilities upgrades, which I think we all agree needs to happen to some extent, I think they are doing what they need to do, which is take diamonds-in-the-rough kind of kids and develop them. Once you've built up a steady core, you can keep replacing guys as they graduate and you can get the occasional 4 star recruits.