What outside coaches would be realistic candidates here?

AZOrange

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Maybe. Or maybe Hop's window has passed -- we may have dodged a bullet there. I think people have difficulty reconciling their love for Hop and his energy / enthusiasm, and being pragmatic about his multi-year downward trend after the hot start at Washington.

Providing a list today is irrelevant -- we don't know what the landscape will look like when JB hangs 'em up. The field could look completely different in two years [or whenever he steps away] than it looks today, in June 2021.

Put me on record as believing that the only way Red or GMac become HC at Syracuse is if JB dicks over the AD and retires unexpectedly right before the season, thereby preventing the AD from conducting a thorough search.
Hop is still one of the best recruiters in the game...
 

Hoo's That

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I don't think Duke's situation is apples to apples. They are recruiting at a high level, and want continuity above all else. Their AD was also interested in letting K hand pick his successor -- which, as stated above, ADJW didn't seem willing to do when JB pitched that option.

We've morphed into a perennial bubble team. Should continuity be the goal, with less qualified candidates to replace a HOFer who is one of the best in the biz with respect to in-game coaching?

We need to do full due diligence and identify / select the best candidate we can. On the list of evaluative criteria that factors into that determination, having ties to the program should be pretty far down on the list.
It will be interesting to see how far back toward Earth Duke falls. Vick Bubas had a .761 record when he retired. He was replaced by Bucky Waters who was forced out with a .583 record. Waters was replaced by Neil McGeachy (Remember him? I don't.) who was fired after 1 year with a .385 (10-16) record. Bill Foster replaced McGeachy. Foster was either forced out or realized he had taken Duke as far as they could go and left with a .638 record for South Carolina. K replaced Foster. Scheyer will not get the leeway that K did at the end; most of the 5* they get now will not be admitted. I don't think he'll be another McGeachy; more like another Bucky Waters - good, but not good enough in their eyes.
 

721Comstock

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I don't think Duke's situation is apples to apples. They are recruiting at a high level, and want continuity above all else. Their AD was also interested in letting K hand pick his successor -- which, as stated above, ADJW didn't seem willing to do when JB pitched that option.

We've morphed into a perennial bubble team. Should continuity be the goal, with less qualified candidates to replace a HOFer who is one of the best in the biz with respect to in-game coaching?

We need to do full due diligence and identify / select the best candidate we can. On the list of evaluative criteria that factors into that determination, having ties to the program should be pretty far down on the list.

THIS. 144% THIS.

"Many people are saying" that Cuse hoops has lost a step the past 7 seasons.
That we've declined as a program, and even the great NCAA runs, are just masking that decline.

And on the other hand -
many of those SAME people (I honestly think the VENN diagram would be a circle here) -
want Syracuse to ONLY consider hiring a guy who has been an integral part of this now ongoing mediocrity.

Which is the definition of insanity - doing the same thing, expecting a different result.


Since we're using precedents to determine these things, it now looks to be a lock that Coach Q will be JAB's replacement, given that Gary Gait is replacing HOF Lax legend Coach Desko.
 

RF2044

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It will be interesting to see how far back toward Earth Duke falls. Vick Bubas had a .761 record when he retired. He was replaced by Bucky Waters who was forced out with a .583 record. Waters was replaced by Neil McGeachy (Remember him? I don't.) who was fired after 1 year with a .385 (10-16) record. Bill Foster replaced McGeachy. Foster was either forced out or realized he had taken Duke as far as they could go and left with a .638 record for South Carolina. K replaced Foster. Scheyer will not get the leeway that K did at the end; most of the 5* they get now will not be admitted. I don't think he'll be another McGeachy; more like another Bucky Waters - good, but not good enough in their eyes.

Agreed -- good summary. It is exceedingly difficult to replace an icon, but when things are going well, continuity is a desirable objective. But if there's slippage, then they might feel compelled to step outside of the cozy, amniotic sack of the Duke coaching tree. That's not where they are now, but it COULD be where they are if Scheyer is subpar.

We're at a different point on the continuum, in terms of program performance.

Change is always difficult. Sure, there's risk -- but there's also OPPORTUNITY in change.
 

AZOrange

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THIS. 144% THIS.

"Many people are saying" that Cuse hoops has lost a step the past 7 seasons.
That we've declined as a program, and even the great NCAA runs, are just masking that decline.

And on the other hand -
many of those SAME people (I honestly think the VENN diagram would be a circle here) -
want Syracuse to ONLY consider hiring a guy who has been an integral part of this now ongoing mediocrity.

Which is the definition of insanity - doing the same thing, expecting a different result.


Since we're using precedents to determine these things, it now looks to be a lock that Coach Q will be JAB's replacement, given that Gary Gait is replacing HOF Lax legend Coach Desko.
Just to be clear I’m not saying what I want to happen. Just what I expect will happen
 

SUOrangeSU

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I’ve heard the OK St HC a few times if we go outside. I think we do the Hop and he will come. JW knows Hop can be major back on East with recruiting.

I wouldnt be mad at Red. He would have the DMV a damn near lock more then he has now with being the HC. I just wish he had some HC experience.
 

Yukon

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Put me on record as believing that the only way Red or GMac become HC at Syracuse is if JB dicks over the AD and retires unexpectedly right before the season, thereby preventing the AD from conducting a thorough search.
That’s exactly what happened with Ollie… IMO even if you stay in house you still really want that search.
 

IthacaMatt

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I don’t think you’ll see an outside the family hire because the realistic options don’t match what we are looking for at all... some names would be Ed Cooley, Willard, Travis Steele. Way better off going with one of Red, Gmac, or Hop just because of recruiting connections and familiarity they have with the program and area.

A lot of people on the recruiting trail have been saying that SU thinks it's the team it used to be 10 years ago, but they aren't.
 

IthacaMatt

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There aren’t many out there that would keep Syracuse at a high level. Red has been an assistant here for ten years and has taken the role as top assistant after Hop left he’s earned a chance to at least interview. Why not look at Dnic or Devo. Both have a lot of experience around basketball. I’m not just saying them because there former players. Dnic played pro and has been working around basketball for a while he wouldn’t be a bad option. Devo has been around the program forever as a coach, trainer, and alumni. He still trains our players to this day.


I think Devo could be a great recruiter.
 

IthacaMatt

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Thank goodness you don't have to think about it.

Also, there is no job in any industry on any planet that Bobby Hurley is more deserving of than Red Autry. Hurley is a POS exceeded in that area only by his brother. If they hired him they would need to put seats back into Manley for the games.


Hurley has actually been a head coach, hasn't he?
I'd say that's a legitimate point of differentiation between the candidates.
 

rrlbees

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A lot of people on the recruiting trail have been saying that SU thinks it's the team it used to be 10 years ago, but they aren't.

i know someone claims that someone said that, but I don’t even know what it means. We been telling recruits we won the NC 2 years ago?
 

IthacaMatt

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i know someone claims that someone said that, but I don’t even know what it means. We been telling recruits we won the NC 2 years ago?


It means that interviews with current recruits and their AAU coaches say that we have an inflated view of the importance of our brand. We haven't even won 20 games in the regular season in almost a decade. Do you want to argue that?

Our brand was a lot higher when Mike & Jim were coaching the Olympic team, and we were consistently ranked in the Top 10. We had a stretch of about 6-8 years when we were truly elite, an amazing team that legitimately could win the title.

We are nowhere close to that now. We haven't been close to that in 7 years, but when we pitch people on Syracuse, we act like the 2010 and 2012 teams were just yesterday.

That's the point. In 2010 and 2012, these kids were in 2nd or 3rd grade. We haven't been elite in that long. But we still act like we are on the recruiting trail - and of course that's what you're supposed to do! But we don't have the results to back it up.
 

rrlbees

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It means that interviews with current recruits and their AAU coaches say that we have an inflated view of the importance of our brand. We haven't even won 20 games in the regular season in almost a decade. Do you want to argue that?

Our brand was a lot higher when Mike & Jim were coaching the Olympic team, and we were consistently ranked in the Top 10. We had a stretch of about 6-8 years when we were truly elite, an amazing team that legitimately could win the title.

We are nowhere close to that now. We haven't been close to that in 7 years, but when we pitch people on Syracuse, we act like the 2010 and 2012 teams were just yesterday.

That's the point. In 2010 and 2012, these kids were in 2nd or 3rd grade. We haven't been elite in that long. But we still act like we are on the recruiting trail - and of course that's what you're supposed to do! But we don't have the results to back it up.

still don’t know what it means. Are we telling recruits we’ve been a top 25 program the last 10 years? I don’t even know how prevalent something like that would even be. I think it’s something overblown as usual.
 

cuseincincy

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You missed one, all knowing basketball wizard. Guess H0T Takes are not a thing in cincy.
Six suggested candidates. Six opinions. Guess reading comprehension is not a thing for you or spelling for that matter as HOT is spelled with an "O" not a "0." Just to help you out a little and end this drivel...my opinion of Fran McCaffery as SU's next head coach is "Ehh..."
 

Browerfor3

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Boynton and McDermott are above average recruiters and put their teams in top 25 rankings. Either would likely relate well to younger players and manage one and dones.
 

rrlbees

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It will be interesting to see how far back toward Earth Duke falls. Vick Bubas had a .761 record when he retired. He was replaced by Bucky Waters who was forced out with a .583 record. Waters was replaced by Neil McGeachy (Remember him? I don't.) who was fired after 1 year with a .385 (10-16) record. Bill Foster replaced McGeachy. Foster was either forced out or realized he had taken Duke as far as they could go and left with a .638 record for South Carolina. K replaced Foster. Scheyer will not get the leeway that K did at the end; most of the 5* they get now will not be admitted. I don't think he'll be another McGeachy; more like another Bucky Waters - good, but not good enough in their eyes.

totally OT but your baseball team is fun to watch. Great game today to advance. I’ll be rooting for them to win it all but there’s a long ways to go.
 

Hoo's That

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totally OT but your baseball team is fun to watch. Great game today to advance. I’ll be rooting for them to win it all but there’s a long ways to go.
Many folks (including yours truly) gave them up for dead in March and April.
 

IthacaMatt

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It will be interesting to see how far back toward Earth Duke falls. Vick Bubas had a .761 record when he retired. He was replaced by Bucky Waters who was forced out with a .583 record. Waters was replaced by Neil McGeachy (Remember him? I don't.) who was fired after 1 year with a .385 (10-16) record. Bill Foster replaced McGeachy. Foster was either forced out or realized he had taken Duke as far as they could go and left with a .638 record for South Carolina. K replaced Foster. Scheyer will not get the leeway that K did at the end; most of the 5* they get now will not be admitted. I don't think he'll be another McGeachy; more like another Bucky Waters - good, but not good enough in their eyes.


I thought Bill Foster was a pretty good coach. I'm pretty sure they made a Final Four under him before he left. Spanarkal and Gminski.

I think Duke will be like North Carolina, meaning that they'll have a good coach in relatively short order.

At UNC, Guthridge did ok in his short time. Doherty bombed, and then Roy Williams showed up.

Scheyer might be Doherty, or he might be a terrific young coach in waiting.
 
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rrlbees

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Many folks (including yours truly) gave them up for dead in March and April.

think they said they were something like 4-12 in the ACC at the end of May. Big turn around. Then coming out of the losers bracket from game 1 to advance to the super regionals isn’t an easy task.
 

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