What would our record be if Frank started alongside Jesse from game one on?

[NineOneSeven]

I cam't believe we haven't seen it yet . We've been a .500 team all year and I think it would be a big improvement . Sit Jimmy. What does Jimmy bring to the table that Frank can't? Frank would bring toughness, rebounding , blocked shots, way more athletic ability and someone above the rim. Jimmy brings none of those things to the game.

I wouldn’t care if frank got time at the 4. Also wouldn’t really care if anyone got time anywhere. At 13-12, do whatever honestly. Put Cole up top. Let Ajak send some threes (partially kidding).

That said… there are absolutely things Jimmy can bring that Frank can’t. Doesn’t mean that overall Frank might not be a greater net positive. But to answer this simple question and nothing more, 3 point shooting.

 

[Day2]

When we make the tourney, average seed:
1980s: 3 seed
1990s: 5 seed
2000s: 4 seed
2010-14: 2 seed
2015-now: 10 seed

Pretty much says it all. Incredible run overall, but we’ve been very mediocre for 8 years now, with seemingly no end in sight. How long will we wait?

This is confirmation bias. You’re averaging the first three decades separately, and then you’re splitting up the 2010s and tacking on the 2020s to the back half. The 2010s are in line with the other decades if you don’t divide them.

 

[Alsacs]

This is confirmation bias. You’re averaging the first three decades separately, and then you’re splitting up the 2010s and tacking on the 2020s to the back half. The 2010s are in line with the other decades if you don’t divide them.

Goodness man.
2015-2022 is 8 years.

Also notice how my previous post was responded too.

Before 2015 we were an 8 seed or worse in the NCAAT 1 time. 1999.

Since 2015 we have made the NCAAT as a 10 seed-2016, DNQ-2017, 11-seed first-4-2018, 8 seed-2019, 2020-cancelled no chance at an at-large-2020, 11 seed-2021.

4 times.

Is that confirmation bias?

 

[Bayside44]

We don't know that at all. All I know is it hasn't been tried and it's odd that it wasn't. You act like Jimmy is an offensive force, he's not. He has flaws and is not a typical Syracuse forward in any sense of the word that I've ever seen. JB was in a tough situation at that position when Benny never panned out. JB would probably explain it as the need to keep him as a backup center and foul trouble problems. But he did it with Arinze and Rick. And there's the fact that he'd have to bench his son. So we will never find out, but I think it would have been worth a try.

Yeah we do, he cannot shoot. His foul shots look like a middle-school kid. Jimmy's last name can be Jones and he at least needs to be guarded. Buddy cannot beat a double team as is, add another defender out there.

Remember when we gave a guy like Howard Washington run? His defenders would be 10 plus feet off the guy.

 

[Bayside44]

Goodness man.
2015-2022 is 8 years.

Also notice how my previous post was responded too.

Before 2015 we were an 8 seed or worse in the NCAAT 1 time. 1999.

Since 2015 we have made the NCAAT as a 10 seed-2016, DNQ-2017, 11-seed first-4-2018, 8 seed-2019, 2020-cancelled no chance at an at-large-2020, 11 seed-2021.

4 times.

Is that confirmation bias?

JB didn't coach 9 games in 2016, a season where he started hot, beat Duke his first game back, and went to a FF. He likely does better than 4-5 when Mike got stuck and our seed would've been better.

 

[Cusefan0307]

JB didn't coach 9 games in 2016, a season where he started hot, beat Duke his first game back, and went to a FF. He likely does better than 4-5 when Mike got stuck and our seed would've been better.

I agree that team would have had a better record had JB not got suspended. We started off 0-4 in the ACC that season including an awful late game meltdown against Clemson. That team had more talent than any other squad in this time period. The NCAA also pulled some garbage where they decided to move JB's suspension immediately prior to the Georgetown game. There was zero time to prepare for the coaching change.

 

[ORRange]

Yeah we do, he cannot shoot. His foul shots look like a middle-school kid. Jimmy's last name can be Jones and he at least needs to be guarded. Buddy cannot beat a double team as is, add another defender out there.

Remember when we gave a guy like Howard Washington run? His defenders would be 10 plus feet off the guy.

No we don't. I already pointed out everything that Frank does better. There's more to the game than shooting, especially with all the flaws in Jimmy's game.

 

[Alsacs]

JB didn't coach 9 games in 2016, a season where he started hot, beat Duke his first game back, and went to a FF. He likely does better than 4-5 when Mike got stuck and our seed would've been better.

JB was suspended.
This is all speculation.
We lose at Pitt and Miami with JB.

Maybe and this is speculation we could have beaten St. John’s or Clemson.
Georgetown destroyed us and we made it close.

I don’t think those Clemson and St. John’s wins make us go anywhere but maybe a 7 seed at best.
Likely 8-9 game.

With JB we aren’t much different.
The Clemson game is really the only game I could see flipping.

St. John’s did to us what they did at the Dome the following year with JB.

 

[Alsacs]

I agree that team would have had a better record had JB not got suspended. We started off 0-4 in the ACC that season including an awful late game meltdown against Clemson. That team had more talent than any other squad in this time period. The NCAA also pulled some garbage where they decided to move JB's suspension immediately prior to the Georgetown game. There was zero time to prepare for the coaching change.

I looked it maybe we win 1 more game.
At home against Clemson.

Pitt and Miami on the road were both good and beat us. Pitt beat us 2 times with JB that season.
Miami was top 15.

St. John’s destroyed the zone like they did the following year at the Dome.
Georgetown shot lights out as well.

We maybe one game better with JB. So its 8-9 game instead of 10 seed.

 

[Bayside44]

I agree that team would have had a better record had JB not got suspended. We started off 0-4 in the ACC that season including an awful late game meltdown against Clemson. That team had more talent than any other squad in this time period. The NCAA also pulled some garbage where they decided to move JB's suspension immediately prior to the Georgetown game. There was zero time to prepare for the coaching change.

Being at that Georgetown game was a really weird event. Our team that year proved to be a good one. Of course we couldn't hold on to guys...

 

[Bayside44]

No we don't. I already pointed out everything that Frank does better. There's more to the game than shooting, especially with all the flaws in Jimmy's game.

I'll agree to disagree. I'll agree that Bruce needs to tour soon.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I looked it maybe we win 1 more game.
At home against Clemson.

Pitt and Miami on the road were both good and beat us. Pitt beat us 2 times with JB that season.
Miami was top 15.

St. John’s destroyed the zone like they did the following year at the Dome.
Georgetown shot lights out as well.

We maybe one game better with JB. So its 8-9 game instead of 10 seed.

I think you're underrating the psychological toll that whole experience brought on the team. It's been a few years, but as I recall they pulled the rug under out from beneath us right before Georgetown. That has some effect on the team. The team had played very well to start the year besides the loss to a solid Wisconsin squad.

 

[Bayside44]

JB was suspended.
This is all speculation.
We lose at Pitt and Miami with JB.

Maybe and this is speculation we could have beaten St. John’s or Clemson.
Georgetown destroyed us and we made it close.

I don’t think those Clemson and St. John’s wins make us go anywhere but maybe a 7 seed at best.
Likely 8-9 game.

With JB we aren’t much different.
The Clemson game is really the only game I could see flipping.

St. John’s did to us what they did at the Dome the following year with JB.

We won the Bahama tournament, beat Duke in Cameron, and went to the FF. We had two first round picks on the court. None of that is speculative.

 

[Alsacs]

I think you're underrating the psychological toll that whole experience brought on the team. It's been a few years, but as I recall they pulled the rug under out from beneath us right before Georgetown. That has some effect on the team. The team had played very well to start the year besides the loss to a solid Wisconsin squad.

It was a good team.

I am not saying lose JB wasn’t helpful but I only see 1 or 2 games it could have made a difference.
Key word being could have.

 

[Alsacs]

We won the Bahama tournament, beat Duke in Cameron, and went to the FF. We had two first round picks on the court. None of that is speculative.

That Duke team wasn’t that good.
They finished 11-7.

The 2016 team was good.
You are making a circumstantial case. Those can be poked away.
It’s not factual to say JB would have made any difference.
It’s all speculation.

Again you can feel he makes us go 9-0. It’s not factual.

Winning at Duke was easier than normal that season.
The 2018 win at Duke was impressive.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It was a good team.

I am not saying lose JB wasn’t helpful but I only see 1 or 2 games it could have made a difference.
Key word being could have.

I saw this happen with the Saints. The won 13, 11, and 13 games over 3 seasons, Payton gets suspended for Bountygate, they suddenly stink and go 7-9 with the same team. He returns the next season and they win 11 games..

 

[Alsacs]

I saw this happen with the Saints. The won 13, 11, and 13 games over 3 seasons, Payton gets suspended for Bountygate, they suddenly stink and go 7-9 with the same team. He returns the next season and they win 11 games..

Football coaching is a lot more important than college basketball.

Again i am not saying their couldn’t have been a difference I just don’t see JB doing that much better again maybe 1 game. 2 games at most.

If we had played cupcakes it makes no difference.
That is why I see the difference as minor.
St. John’s and Clemson are the only 2 games I could see a different outcome.

Those 2 wins don’t make us top 25.
They make us like the 2019 regular season.

 

[MikeSU02]

In 2016, I wasn't yet divorced, there was no Covid, Cavs beat a 73-win Dubs team and Leo got an Oscar for wrasslin' a bear.

It was 9 games when the world was a different place.

We are 13-12 and we just lost our best player. There are a lot of things that we could have done different.

 

[Bayside44]

That Duke team wasn’t that good.
They finished 11-7.

The 2016 team was good.
You are making a circumstantial case. Those can be poked away.
It’s not factual to say JB would have made any difference.
It’s all speculation.

Again you can feel he makes us go 9-0. It’s not factual.

Winning at Duke was easier than normal that season.
The 2018 win at Duke was impressive.

Any win in Cameron is good.

Otherwise you should just junk the 2016 argument. There are things that are a problem today that are more salient to your numerous arguments. If anything JB really overcame a bad hand that season.

 

[pearl31]

record would be 40-0, obv

 

[CorduroyG]

Eh, not that much different. No matter how the deck chairs on this Titanic of a basketball team are arranged, it's still a disaster.

youre so stupid frank! youre so stupid!

 

[ORRange]

I'll agree to disagree. I'll agree that Bruce needs to tour soon.

Yeah the last tour was in 2016. I saw him at Blue Cross Arena in Richester . Seems like yesterday . Thats a great venue, not a bad seat in the house.

 

[baggerbob]

We would be four on five on offense.

And we have been 5 on 1 on defense, 4 players who play matador defense.

 

[Day2]

Goodness man.
2015-2022 is 8 years.

Also notice how my previous post was responded too.

Before 2015 we were an 8 seed or worse in the NCAAT 1 time. 1999.

Since 2015 we have made the NCAAT as a 10 seed-2016, DNQ-2017, 11-seed first-4-2018, 8 seed-2019, 2020-cancelled no chance at an at-large-2020, 11 seed-2021.

4 times.

Is that confirmation bias?

Data should be consistent. If you want to track by decade, track by decade. If you want to go with five-year increments instead, that’s fine, too. But you don’t change course halfway through to fit your narrative.

For example:
1980s = 1 Final Four
1990s = 1 Final Four
2000s = 1 Final Four
2010s = 2 Final Fours
2020s = TBD

Not this:
1980s = 1 Final Four
1990s = 1 Final Four
2000s = 1 Final Four
2010-14 = 1 Final Four
2015-22 = 1 Final Four

 

[Ozone!]

IMO, Frank should have been given regular minutes in all games with starters; sometimes with Jesse and other times when Jesse needed a break. His minutes with Jesse should have been at the 5 with Jesse moving to the 4. This would have provided both with growth while learning from more experienced players, on the floor together. It’s tough answering the original question in this post mainly due to Frank’s inability to obtain regular playing time!