What would our record be if Frank started alongside Jesse from game one on?

[rrlbees]

IMO, Frank should have been given regular minutes in all games with starters; sometimes with Jesse and other times when Jesse needed a break. His minutes with Jesse should have been at the 5 with Jesse moving to the 4. This would have provided both with growth while learning from more experienced players, on the floor together. It’s tough answering the original question in this post mainly due to Frank’s inability to obtain regular playing time!

I don’t know why people just think we can just throw Jesse or Frank into the 4. Has either one practiced it? Especially on defense in the 2-3? Would they know/understand all the rotations? Their development has been as 5’s. That’s worked out pretty good. The more time Frank got would be at Jesses expense.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don’t know why people just think we can just throw Jesse or Frank into the 4. Has either one practiced it? Especially on defense in the 2-3? Would they know/understand all the rotations? Their development has been as 5’s. That’s worked out pretty good. The more time Frank got would be at Jesses expense.

I’m with you on this.

 

[Ozone!]

I don’t know why people just think we can just throw Jesse or Frank into the 4. Has either one practiced it? Especially on defense in the 2-3? Would they know/understand all the rotations? Their development has been as 5’s. That’s worked out pretty good. The more time Frank got would be at Jesses expense.

Perhaps, however if they got to practice this combination they might just learn and develop the necessary skills sets. I am not advocating just throwing them into these situations without practice where coaches might just help them learn and develop.

 

[rrlbees]

Perhaps, however if they got to practice this combination they might just learn and develop the necessary skills sets. I am not advocating just throwing them into these situations without practice where coaches might just help them learn and develop.

Practice practice practice. Maybe next year. But this year they’ve been practicing being centers. In SUs defense the 4 is much different than the 5.

 

[Ozone!]

Are we changing coaching staffs? Or is the philosophy of the current staff somehow transforming during the off-season? From what I read from knowledgeable posters, most of our scoring is departing.

Perhaps you have inside information. Otherwise we will have the older players settling into some versions of the 2/3 zone D. Typically it has taken 2 years for most new players to truly be comfortable in that D. Without some adjustments in coaching we will have a high value recruiting class lacking in the court time necessary for gaining meaningful playing time, from practice alone. This has been our model for quite sometime now.


I am not attempting to pick a fight here. It would be helpful if you could explain how this will work out without a change in philosophy.

 

[Dave]

Disastrous. The kind of lineup only internet posters would propose.

 

[CousCuse]

Disastrous. The kind of lineup only internet posters would propose.

Yea, Frank's only played basketball for a couple years and I don't remember him ever even putting the ball on the floor.

 

[OrangeDW]

Data should be consistent. If you want to track by decade, track by decade. If you want to go with five-year increments instead, that’s fine, too. But you don’t change course halfway through to fit your narrative.

For example:
1980s = 1 Final Four
1990s = 1 Final Four
2000s = 1 Final Four
2010s = 2 Final Fours
2020s = TBD

Not this:
1980s = 1 Final Four
1990s = 1 Final Four
2000s = 1 Final Four
2010-14 = 1 Final Four
2015-22 = 1 Final Four

Fine. Let’s start in 76-77, Boeheim’s first season.

77-86
87-96
97-06
07-16
17- now

Data would basically be the same. We fell off. Hard.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yea, Frank's only played basketball for a couple years and I don't remember him ever even putting the ball on the floor.

If only some of our other guys had that amount of self awareness.

 

[sufandu]

I don’t know why people just think we can just throw Jesse or Frank into the 4. Has either one practiced it? Especially on defense in the 2-3? Would they know/understand all the rotations? Their development has been as 5’s. That’s worked out pretty good. The more time Frank got would be at Jesses expense.

Maybe that's the problem. When you have a team with so few players that will see the floor, you need parts that can shift around, like in 2010 when Jackson started games at the 4 and also had time at the 5. If the system is so rigid that it doesn't allow for flexibility, there is a flaw in the system. Having the ability to put Frank at the 4 from time to time may have given us options against bigger more athletic teams. It doesn't mean he has to start there or that he needs to play there every game.

 

[Alsacs]

If only some of our other guys had that amount of self awareness.

It’s amazing how we have played multiple bigs at times throughout JB and now because “spacing” these people don’t get it.
Nobody wants Frank playing PF 30 mpg.

With how thin our roster is it could have been an option for 5 mpg.

Like we did with AO and Rick Jackson both of whom did nothing outside of the paint.

But because spacing can’t do it.

 

[rrlbees]

Maybe that's the problem. When you have a team with so few players that will see the floor, you need parts that can shift around, like in 2010 when Jackson started games at the 4 and also had time at the 5. If the system is so rigid that it doesn't allow for flexibility, there is a flaw in the system. Having the ability to put Frank at the 4 from time to time may have given us options against bigger more athletic teams. It doesn't mean he has to start there or that he needs to play there every game.

Frank is raw and hasn’t played much basketball. Expecting him to learn the complexities and nuances of the zone isn’t fair to him. Maybe next year.

 

[Alsacs]

Maybe that's the problem. When you have a team with so few players that will see the floor, you need parts that can shift around, like in 2010 when Jackson started games at the 4 and also had time at the 5. If the system is so rigid that it doesn't allow for flexibility, there is a flaw in the system. Having the ability to put Frank at the 4 from time to time may have given us options against bigger more athletic teams. It doesn't mean he has to start there or that he needs to play there every game.

Stop making sense.
That isn’t allowed.

We can only play 1 player per position. Iron men only.
No tickering with the lineup.

 

[sufandu]

It’s amazing how we have played multiple bigs at times throughout JB and now because “spacing” these people don’t get it.
Nobody wants Frank playing PF 30 mpg.

With how thin our roster is it could have been an option for 5 mpg.

Like we did with AO and Rick Jackson both of whom did nothing outside of the paint.

But because spacing can’t do it.

Jesse showed some good passing skills at times. I wonder if playing high/low with Frank could've worked. Frank seems to be able to catch and finish.

 

[Alsacs]

Frank is raw and hasn’t played much basketball. Expecting him to learn the complexities and nuances of the zone isn’t fair to him. Maybe next year.

Yeah because this team is really diving deep into the defensive playbook.

What is practice for?
It’s clearly not to work on out of bounds or offensive sets.

I bet Frank would want to learn more if it got him more playing time when the best player on the team plays his position.

 

[sufandu]

Frank is raw and hasn’t played much basketball. Expecting him to learn the complexities and nuances of the zone isn’t fair to him. Maybe next year.

Why do we have to have all the complexities that other teams don't? Why do we recruit projects that take forever to learn a complex system?

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah because this team is really diving deep into the defensive playbook.

What is practice for?
It’s clearly not to work on out of bounds or offensive sets.

I bet Frank would want to learn more if it got him more playing time when the best player on the team plays his position.

He needed all the practice he could get to learn to play the 5 in the zone. You act like we play m2m.

 

[rrlbees]

Why do we have to have all the complexities that other teams don't? Why do we recruit projects that take forever to learn a complex system?

Because we do and have for a long time. And now you don’t like that we recruited Frank? He’s become a very serviceable center.

 

[Alsacs]

He needed all the practice he could get to learn to play the 5 in the zone. You act like we play m2m.

Learning the zone isn’t rocket science.
Especially when our zone sucks this year.

Frank has been here 2 years.
It doesn’t take forever.

We don’t experiment.
When Cole played the top of the zone our defense was a lot better and more active.

We haven’t used him there since Pitt?

I bet the same people down playing Frank on the wing would say don’t use Cole up top.
Lord knows he practices up there all the time.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This thread is what happens when a good basketball program hits hard times without much hope on the horizon.

 

[goofnoff]

Why do we have to have all the complexities that other teams don't? Why do we recruit projects that take forever to learn a complex system?

We'd like to recruit 5 star finished players. They don't line up to come to SU. So we try to recruit potential particularly for big men.

 

[Alsacs]

;

This thread is what happens when a good basketball program hits hard times without much hope on the horizon.

Yeah its frustrating because I know the HC won’t change.
If there was hope on the horizon then their would be calm. I am just done pretending.
It’s been a great era but its not going to change. So when the spin comes out I just fight it.

 

[Day2]

;

Yeah its frustrating because I know the HC won’t change.
If there was hope on the horizon then their would be calm. I am just done pretending.
It’s been a great era but its not going to change. So when the spin comes out I just fight it.

You’re doing God’s work.

 

[rrlbees]

;

Yeah its frustrating because I know the HC won’t change.
If there was hope on the horizon then their would be calm. I am just done pretending.
It’s been a great era but its not going to change. So when the spin comes out I just fight it.

The spin. LOL.

 

[kcsu]

I don’t know why people just think we can just throw Jesse or Frank into the 4. Has either one practiced it? Especially on defense in the 2-3? Would they know/understand all the rotations? Their development has been as 5’s. That’s worked out pretty good. The more time Frank got would be at Jesses expense.

Good points however it wouldn't be a stretch to give Frank some run at the 4. Obviously he needs to get practice at that position. My two cents is our D would improve significantly. I dont buy the offense falling off that much. I actually think Franks knack for rebounds might serve us well on put backs. Bottom line is he wont get a chance because of Jimmy.