When ESPN last night switched immediately to the KU/UT game...

[IthacaMatt]

I think JB’s computer mind did a risk analysis and gambled on defending inside at the expense of allowing them to shoot more 3’s. They cheated off White daring him to shoot(0-10 all from 3)and it paid off and luckily Barrett gunned it (8 for 30 with 4-17 from 3) and missed. Barrett mustn’t want to lose his ACC leading scoring average regardless of the volume of shots. No way he should have taken 4 more shots than both Williamson and Bolden combined.

Good call, Cherie. That's what JB usually does. And it usually works. He especially likes it when they hit threes early, because it becomes fools gold. He has said that a bunch of times in interviews.

I find your remark about Barrett "shot hunting" at Zion's expense funny, and also accurate. Of course, Zion took himself out of the game sometimes as much as our zone and double teams did.

But yeah, I hadn't thought about that 1 vs. 2 pick, who is the alpha dog mentality. Bilas made a comment during the first half about neither of them being a selfish player, etc. It's easy to pass the ball when you're winning every game by 20 points. When you're behind, that's when the player's real personality is exposed.

 

[44cuse]

bigger shock than the win itself

In some ways it's annoying because it takes you back to the art of the possible. and it's worse because they did it against the best team in the country.

44cuse

 

[Cheriehoop]

Good call, Cherie. That's what JB usually does. And it usually works. He especially likes it when they hit threes early, because it becomes fools gold. He has said that a bunch of times in interviews.

I find your remark about Barrett "shot hunting" at Zion's expense funny, and also accurate. Of course, Zion took himself out of the game sometimes as much as our zone and double teams did.

But yeah, I hadn't thought about that 1 vs. 2 pick, who is the alpha dog mentality. Bilas made a comment during the first half about neither of them being a selfish player, etc. It's easy to pass the ball when you're winning every game by 20 points. When you're behind, that's when the player's real personality is exposed.

I would imagine that Coach K had a game plan for us and I seriously doubt it was to take 43 three pointers out of their 80 field goal attempts. Coaches can have game plans but the players decide whether to execute it.

 

[orangecuse]

They are not sitting courtside watching the game

Oh, you don't say. The final score speaks for itself.

 

[NorSyr66]

I was also surprised to see Duke not getting the ball to Zion more in the 2nd half. Chewy played a majority of the 2nd half and all of OT only picking up one foul after 3 before the half. It was obvious he was not taking any risky challenges, and it sure payed off in the last few minutes of the game and during OT. I would like to think our increased ball pressure kept the ball outside.

 

[moqui]

I would imagine that Coach K had a game plan for us and I seriously doubt it was to take 43 three pointers out of their 80 field goal attempts. Coaches can have game plans but the players decide whether to execute it.

as the great philosopher mike tyson said, "everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face bashed in the shoulder"

 

[Cheriehoop]

as the great philosopher mike tyson said, "everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face bashed in the shoulder"

Bitten on the ear

 

[shandeezy7]

I was also surprised to see Duke not getting the ball to Zion more in the 2nd half. Chewy played a majority of the 2nd half and all of OT only picking up one foul after 3 before the half. It was obvious he was not taking any risky challenges, and it sure payed off in the last few minutes of the game and during OT. I would like to think our increased ball pressure kept the ball outside.

I would say it was the opposite of that. We sagged in and packed the lane more than I've ever seen before, trying to keep the ball out of Zion's hands. The only times we really pressured the ball were late in the shot clock and at the end of the game.

 

[UelSU]

I would say it was the opposite of that. We sagged in and packed the lane more than I've ever seen before, trying to keep the ball out of Zion's hands. The only times we really pressured the ball were late in the shot clock and at the end of the game.

We gambled that White couldn't make a 3, and it worked out. If he makes half of those wide open looks, we probably lose.

 

[ORRange]

Sure White got the collar but Barrett was a bigger culprit for Duke. He jacked up 30 shots (17 three pointers) and had one of the least efficient games I've ever seen. Everytime he touched the ball I wanted him to shoot it and he obliged. At some point K has to tell him "Dude that's enough, pass the ball".

 

[orangecuse]

We gambled that White couldn't make a 3, and it worked out. If he makes half of those wide open looks, we probably lose.

Um, half of them and we probably lose? He was 0-10...it was 88-88 going into the OT. Now, I'm no math mathematician by any stretch, but something tells me all's he needed to do was hit say one (okay 2 for good measure) and we lose.

 

[SmilinBob]

I am so surprised K didn't go zone. Thought for sure he would with all the injuries.

Duke hits shots they score 120, SU has to figure out something to slow Williamson in shooting harder shots inside when they come to the Dome.

 

[longtimefan]

I would yell at the tv every time that Tyus or Frank took a long 2 but they kept falling. Worst shots that you can possibly take in basketball and Tyus seems to love them.

Battle is excellent from 19' and less than average from 22'.

The number of shots he takes while straddling the line is mind-blowing.

 

[RF2044]

Battle is excellent from 19' and less than average from 22'.

The number of shots he takes while straddling the line is mind-blowing.

Clearly, Battle is more comfortable shooting a step inside the three point line than he is from three. Not that he can't make threes, but he doesn't even hesitate to pull the trigger when he's just inside the line. And he makes such a high percentage of them, clearly it is a distance that he is comfortable from.

Obviously, all of the analytics disfavor those type of shots. But as long as he's making them...

I used to feel exactly the same way about CJ Fair taking mid range shots his junior year. Then he proceeded to drain about 80% of them -- not exaggerating, much -- and I eventually became surprised when he'd miss that kind of shot. I think Battle is cut from the same cloth with that 18 footer -- I cringe every time he takes it, or steps back into a shot from that distance, but he is practically automatic from that range; it's like a go-to move at this point.

 

[SBU72]

I would yell at the tv every time that Tyus or Frank took a long 2 but they kept falling. Worst shots that you can possibly take in basketball and Tyus seems to love them.

Usually the long twos are taken in rhythm were as if they tried back a little they wouldn't be.

 

[SBU72]

For the life of me I still can’t believe we scored 95
It is mind boggling

SU scored almost as many points in the first half than they did for the whole G Tech game and that includes the horrible first few minutes with 0 points.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I’ll take a long two anytime instead of a bricked three.

 

[chugg21]

Clearly, Battle is more comfortable shooting a step inside the three point line than he is from three. Not that he can't make threes, but he doesn't even hesitate to pull the trigger when he's just inside the line. And he makes such a high percentage of them, clearly it is a distance that he is comfortable from.

Obviously, all of the analytics disfavor those type of shots. But as long as he's making them...

I used to feel exactly the same way about CJ Fair taking mid range shots his junior year. Then he proceeded to drain about 80% of them -- not exaggerating, much -- and I eventually became surprised when he'd miss that kind of shot. I think Battle is cut from the same cloth with that 18 footer -- I cringe every time he takes it, or steps back into a shot from that distance, but he is practically automatic from that range; it's like a go-to move at this point.

I tried to look for some breakdown of what his shooting % is from that range and can't find it anywhere. There are plenty of games though where he goes 1-6 or 2-8 in that range so I don't suspect he would be much over 40%.

 

[chugg21]

Usually the long twos are taken in rhythm were as if they tried back a little they wouldn't be.

Debatable. Its a pull up or step back most times which he could do from 4 ft further back. We're not talking about catch & shoot situations here.

 

[RF2044]

I tried to look for some breakdown of what his shooting % is from that range and can't find it anywhere. There are plenty of games though where he goes 1-6 or 2-8 in that range so I don't suspect he would be much over 40%.

I'd like to see that breakdown, because I don't believe that you are correct. Doesn't the PS usually start to break down shots like that for players? Haven't seen that this year -- the visual data would yield a lot of insight.

And it would be interesting to see the breakdown of the first few games [where he shot so abysmally] compared to afterwards, and how he's been shooting the last 10 games or so.

 

[chugg21]

I'd like to see that breakdown, because I don't believe that you are correct. Doesn't the PS usually start to break down shots like that for players? Haven't seen that this year -- the visual data would yield a lot of insight.

And it would be interesting to see the breakdown of the first few games [where he shot so abysmally] compared to afterwards, and how he's been shooting the last 10 games or so.

You do realize the very best shooters in the NBA top out at 50% from mid-range and the very good are around 45% right?

 

[RF2044]

You do realize the very best shooters in the NBA top out at 50% from mid-range and the very good are around 45% right?

You do realize I didn't list any percentage in my assessment of Battle, right? Or did you misread my point about CJ fair? Either way, I think Battle is highly proficient from a step in from the 3-point line; I didn't say anything about mid-range shots. You do realize that's what we were talking about, right?

 

[chugg21]

You do realize I didn't list any percentage in my assessment of Battle, right? Or did you misread my point about CJ fair? Either way, I think Battle is highly proficient from a step in from the 3-point line; I didn't say anything about mid-range shots. You do realize that's what we were talking about, right?

You said you didn't believe I was correct when I said he wouldn't be much over 40%. My basic understanding of English indicates that you then must believe he's somewhere around 43 or 45% or evenhigher. I also understand that mid-range shots are inclusive of everything outside of the restricted area and from about 8 feet til the 3pt line. I would be absolutely stunned if he shot 45% or higher on those shots.

 

[RF2044]

You said you didn't believe I was correct when I said he wouldn't be much over 40%. My basic understanding of English indicates that you then must believe he's somewhere around 43 or 45% or evenhigher. I also understand that mid-range shots are inclusive of everything outside of the restricted area and from about 8 feet til the 3pt line. I would be absolutely stunned if he shot 45% or higher on those shots.

I think you overestimate your basic understanding of English, given that you seem to be the only person in the history of basketball to classify a 19 foot shoot as mid-range.

Let me break this down to simpler concepts, so that you will no longer be confused. Battle is not what anyone would classify as anything more than an average jump shooter. There are many reasons for this--his useage has made for inefficient offensive perfomance, and he also has flawed mechanics on his jump shot. He also has the green light to shoot from anywhere on the floor, and that has contributed to his inefficiency.

What was discussed above was not what everyone other than you would classify as a mid range jump shot. We were talking about him shooting from just inside the three point line, where he seems to connect on an inordinate amount of long range jump shots. He also has displayed virtually no hesitation on pulling up for that shot, nor for stepping back from a mid range shot into a deeper shot from just inside the arc, as well as a smoothness for sinking those shots-- perhaps due to his comfort taking shots from that range.

Statistics show that this is not an efficient shot to take; for most players, it is not a good decision to take a deep shot. Please note, to avoid continued mischaracterization on your part of that shot as "mid range" shot--just inside the stripe, Battle has shown proficiency hitting that shot. If the data were broken down -- again, non-inclusive what everyone else other than you classifies as a mid-range shot, from 7 to 16 feet, and only looking at ~17-19 feet, I'd guess that Battle hits better than 40%, based upon the eye test. From 7-16 feet, he seems to be less efficient than he is from a few feet deeper, just inside the three point line area -- counter-intuitive as that might seem.

Your perspective is skewed because you are combining everything from 7-19 feet and blanketly applying it to everything inside the three point arc -- whereas I'd like to see the visual data broken down to see what he looks like from different levels. I'm guessing that he shoots consistently better from just inside the three point line than he does from a few feet closer, and believe that the data would back that up.

 

[chugg21]

I think you overestimate your basic understanding of English, given that you seem to be the only person in the history of basketball to classify a 19 foot shoot as mid-range.

Let me break this down to simpler concepts, so that you will no longer be confused. Battle is not what anyone would classify as anything more than an average jump shooter. There are many reasons for this--his useage has made for inefficient offensive perfomance, and he also has flawed mechanics on his jump shot. He also has the green light to shoot from anywhere on the floor, and that has contributed to his inefficiency.

What was discussed above was not what everyone other than you would classify as a mid range jump shot. We were talking about him shooting from just inside the three point line, where he seems to connect on an inordinate amount of long range jump shots. He also has displayed virtually no hesitation on pulling up for that shot, nor for stepping back from a mid range shot into a deeper shot from just inside the arc, as well as a smoothness for sinking those shots-- perhaps due to his comfort taking shots from that range.

Statistics show that this is not an efficient shot to take; for most players, it is not a good decision to take a deep shot. Please note, to avoid continued mischaracterization on your part of that shot as "mid range" shot--just inside the stripe, Battle has shown proficiency hitting that shot. If the data were broken down -- again, non-inclusive what everyone else other than you classifies as a mid-range shot, from 7 to 16 feet, and only looking at ~17-19 feet, I'd guess that Battle hits better than 40%, based upon the eye test. From 7-16 feet, he seems to be less efficient than he is from a few feet deeper, just inside the three point line area -- counter-intuitive as that might seem.

Your perspective is flawed because you are combining everything from 7-19 feet and blanketly applying it to everything inside the three point arc -- whereas I'd like to see the visual data broken down to see what he looks like from different levels. I'm guessing that he shoots better from just inside the three point line than he does from a few feet closer.

I would be interested in what numbers say as we may be a bit blinded by what we saw in the Duke game as opposed to the rest of the season.