When you don’t have elite talent you need to adjust what you do depending on the matchup

[dollarbill44]

Don't give up the zone, nobody is saying that. But to sprinkle some m2m in for a few minutes when what we were doing was ineffective, I don't see why we wouldn't try. Even to get them out of their rhythm for two minutes, just to change it up.

I don't think we would have stopped them in m2m. In fact, I think it would have been worse. UNC is one of the 5 best teams in the country. Who would have stopped White, Maye and Johnson?

 

[Ghost]

Maybe BC should switch to zone because they give up a lot of points and rebounds playing M2M

I do agree with this. They should definitely integrate some zone defense into their arsenal - their man is deplorable. If you're playing a team like us, and we're not hitting threes, or you can push us out a step or two when Buddy isn't on the court - you should if the M2M is being shredded.

Good point.

 

[Cusedad2X]

when the center is asked to contest 3 point shots in the corner, because our forwards are expected to cover well past top of the key out to the sideline, it has to be expected that grabbing rebounds is a next to impossible task.

multiple players closing out on a shooter puts are players running away from the basket. It's just a fact of the zone D. for the record, I am a BIG fan of changing up the defences to keep opponent thinking.

 

[moqui]

The fact we don’t change against a team like UNC which KNOWS how to beat this zone is maddening.

i'll let you in on a little secret:
they know how to beat man2man, too.

 

[Cusedad2X]

i'll let you in on a little secret:
they know how to beat man2man, too.

I'd have to say that's an untested theory against SU.

 

[Arangeman]

UNC would have been shocked! For 15 seconds. And then eviscerated our M2M.

 

[MikeSU02]

JB’s refusal to do anything but 100% zone defense barring the press is just not smart.

Don’t give me our players can’t play man to man defense or practicing it requires all this time.

The fact we don’t change against a team like UNC which KNOWS how to beat this zone is maddening.

I can’t wait to beat the 11 seed with North Carolina as the 2 seed and our potential sweet sixteen matchup.

Playing the zone 95% of the time isn’t a lot to ask. The refusal to adjust is what cost us that game. We couldn’t rebound in the zone. We couldn’t stop White and did we change? No and we lost a game our offense played well enough to win.

I agree with you but it’s not happening. I think we can all agree on that.

Knowing that, it makes our limitations with our current offense all the more frustrating.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

UNC would have been shocked! For 15 seconds. And then eviscerated our M2M.

Would chukwu ever see the floor if we played man?

 

[Arangeman]

Would chukwu ever see the floor if we played man?

Is there a bizarro Chukwu out there? Marek on Maye would have been interesting too.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Don't give up the zone, nobody is saying that. But to sprinkle some m2m in for a few minutes when what we were doing was ineffective, I don't see why we wouldn't try. Even to get them out of their rhythm for two minutes, just to change it up.

I'd love to see the press used not only as a desperateion play too...get braswell sidibe and carey in the mix for a few minutes of all out press...

 

[CardiacCuse]

UNC would have been shocked! For 15 seconds. And then eviscerated our M2M.

at least try SOMETHING that isn't SOOO predictable...teams like UNC are not fazed by the zone...for teams that have the zone figured out...it's not a weapon.

 

[FrancoPizza]

when the center is asked to contest 3 point shots in the corner, because our forwards are expected to cover well past top of the key out to the sideline, it has to be expected that grabbing rebounds is a next to impossible task.

Then we need to stop recruiting pure centers if JB is going to keep doing this. I personally think it’s ridiculous to see chukwu even attempting this feat. The center is always late to make that rotation anyway.

And speaking of predictability- that halfcourt trap that we attempt in our dying throes is actually quite effective when it catches the opponent by surprise. The problem is JB is too black and white and thinks it’s all or nothing when it comes to being aggressive. he only ever sees pressure defense as a desperation measure.

 

[Alsacs]

i'll let you in on a little secret:
they know how to beat man2man, too.

I’ll let you in on a little secret. UNC beat us because we can’t rebound against them and that is because of the zone. Also your theory has no support it’s just an opinion like mine. Too bad our coach won’t try an adjustment it could have won the game as the zone is 100% why we lost this game to UNC.

 

[OrangeFoo]

So, probably the biggest flaw this team has js fhst it is usually slower and less athletic at every position then it’s opponent on a nightly basis. One of the benefits of the zone is you.can hide players who are slow and unathletic... how do we look at this scenayabd say play m2m against one of the most athletic and fast teams out there?

Most of the offensive rebounds I saw came from one of our guys ball watching and boxing out. The zone does exacerbate the problem but our guys just aren’t natural rebounders this year. This same group only lost the rebounding battle by 1 and 4 rebounds last year in our two matchups w unc. Just like in just about in every other facet of hoops, our returning guys have regressed year over year., which is completely bizarre at this age and level.

 

[Cusedad2X]

UNC would have been shocked! For 15 seconds. And then eviscerated our M2M.

Similar to how we were shocked (for less that 15 seconds) out of 3 timeouts when they sent two players to immediately trap the player who received the inbounds pass?? That resulted in 2 SU turnovers and a Howard timeout. To my recollection, it was used 3X by UNC and worked each time. Curious to see if UNC does this regularly and if our scouting missed that little twist???.I don't think anyone is advocating 40 mins man to man. However, if the talent/style level of the opponent dictates it or the D we are using isn't working, a change might be worth a try.

 

[ForCuseSake]

JB’s refusal to do anything but 100% zone defense barring the press is just not smart.

Don’t give me our players can’t play man to man defense or practicing it requires all this time.

The fact we don’t change against a team like UNC which KNOWS how to beat this zone is maddening.

I can’t wait to beat the 11 seed with North Carolina as the 2 seed and our potential sweet sixteen matchup.

Playing the zone 95% of the time isn’t a lot to ask. The refusal to adjust is what cost us that game. We couldn’t rebound in the zone. We couldn’t stop White and did we change? No and we lost a game our offense played well enough to win.

I don't agree that playing M2M when facing elite talent is the answer.

One of the reasons zone defenses are so effective in multiple sports is that they help reduce the impact of talent disparity on individual matchups.

If your premise is that SU playing M2M defense against UNC's elite talent would improve their odds of winning then i disagree.

I agree that the zone impairs our ability to rebound defensively but that's one of the trade offs JB's been willing to make.

I'm not interested in watching UNC's perennial mammoth front line dominate at least one, if not all, of our front line players in 1-on-1 rebounding battles.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I'm not interested in watching UNC's perennial mammoth front line dominate at least one, if not all, of our front line players in 1-on-1 rebounding battles.

classic case of Stockholm syndrome when it comes to the zone. Now we have fans who actually believe that we would rebound worse in m2m.

 

[ForCuseSake]

classic case of Stockholm syndrome when it comes to the zone. Now we have fans who actually believe that we would rebound worse in m2m.

 

[Arangeman]

UNC is the #1 rebounding team in the country at 43.4 rpg. They recently outrebounded FSU 47-32, Louisville 49-32, UVA 41-29 including 18-4 on the offensive glass.

The zone makes it harder to box out. It also generates a lot of 3 attempts and long rebounds which are challenging even if you have position. But whether you play m2m or zone vs UNC they are going to get after you on the glass.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't agree that playing M2M when facing elite talent is the answer.

One of the reasons zone defenses are so effective in multiple sports is that they help reduce the impact of talent disparity on individual matchups.

If your premise is that SU playing M2M defense against UNC's elite talent would improve their odds of winning then i disagree.

I agree that the zone impairs our ability to rebound defensively but that's one of the trade offs JB's been willing to make.

I'm not interested in watching UNC's perennial mammoth front line dominate at least one, if not all, of our front line players in 1-on-1 rebounding battles.

Where did I say play m2m 40 minutes.
How about a couple of possessions just to confuse UNC and help rebounding.
Also how does every team in America play some man to man defense but Syracuse can’t?
Washington mixes it during games even when they are primarily a zone team as well.
Nobody is saying abandon the zone as the primary defense . The idea we can’t switch from 100% to 95% is just stupid.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Where did I say play m2m 40 minutes.
How about a couple of possessions just to confuse UNC and help rebounding.
Also how does every team in America play some man to man defense but Syracuse can’t?
Washington mixes it during games even when they are primarily a zone team as well.
Nobody is saying abandon the zone as the primary defense . The idea we can’t switch from 100% to 95% is just stupid.

Where did I say you said we should try M2M for 40 minutes?

I don't think switching to M2M for a few possessions will confuse many teams because they are most likely more comfortable attacking M2M defenses.

I understand that you think changing a few things up during the game might increase the odds of victory.

In this specific example, going M2M against elite talent (UNC), I don't think there's much that can be done because of the talent disparity.

I don't think Droopy is a better coach than Boeheim. I think he consistently has better players on his roster and they are a bad match up for SU.

If you were playing pick up at your local Y, and you had to guard the opposing team's 6'9 guy (tallest player on the court). Would you fare better in zone or M2M???

(It probably wouldn't matter).

 

[Townie72]

Where did I say you said we should try M2M for 40 minutes?

I don't think switching to M2M for a few possessions will confuse many teams because they are most likely more comfortable attacking M2M defenses.

I understand that you think changing a few things up during the game might increase the odds of victory.

In this specific example, going M2M against elite talent (UNC), I don't think there's much that can be done because of the talent disparity.

I don't think Droopy is a better coach than Boeheim. I think he consistently has better players on his roster and they are a bad match up for SU.

If you were playing pick up at your local Y, and you had to guard the opposing team's 6'9 guy (tallest player on the court). Would you fare better in zone or

(It probably wouldn't matter).

Why bother, ForCuseSak?

Same litany of complaints from the same people after every loss.

This time things are a little more bizarre than usual with calling the SU strategy “stupid” and claiming that if only JB would have taken their advice, SU “would have won the game”.

 

[Ryand877]

Why bother, ForCuseSak?

Same litany of complaints from the same people after every loss.

This time things are a little more bizarre than usual with calling the SU strategy “stupid” and claiming that if only JB would have taken their advice, SU “would have won the game”.

Here is my take, which is my opinion, which I am entitled to. Personally, I agree they would have dominated us in m2m. My idea of going to man for one or two minutes since we were not stopping them anyway would be some hope that when we switched back to zone it would break their rhythm. Two minutes, not saying all game. Sometimes just quick things to break up rhythm can fluster a team. It very well probably would not have worked, but why not try since what we did was not working anyhow. It doesn't make me any less of a fan when I offer an opinion different from what the coaches did.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Here is my take, which is my opinion, which I am entitled to. Personally, I agree they would have dominated us in m2m. My idea of going to man for one or two minutes since we were not stopping them anyway would be some hope that when we switched back to zone it would break their rhythm. Two minutes, not saying all game. Sometimes just quick things to break up rhythm can fluster a team. It very well probably would not have worked, but why not try since what we did was not working anyhow. It doesn't make me any less of a fan when I offer an opinion different from what the coaches did.

Isn't the full court press an attempt to break the opponent's rhythm?

I know it's not sustainable and often tires players out but I think we frequently try to break an opponent's rhythm by pressing, trapping, etc.

Again, I don't think it would matter much against a team like UNC. I think we have a pretty solid track record of effectively breaking the rhythm of teams with equal or lesser talent using the press.

 

[FrancoPizza]

How does every team in America play some man to man defense but Syracuse can’t? The idea we can’t switch from 100% to 95% is just stupid.

JB has incoming recruits take a blood test. The samples are sent to Baylor Genetics where they screen for mutations that predispose athletes to poor man-2-man fundamentals. Call it bad luck, but based on the majority of the results, it's no wonder he says they can't play it.