Where has the ACC money and Basketball money gone?

[rrlbees]

Northwestern is spending $250 million on a new Football facility project and $150 million to renovate their basketball arena and build a practice facility. NU is a private school similar to Cuse. Plus they're paying both of their coaches more than $3 million a year. Why can't we find the money to do a legit renovation of our combined football and basketball facility?? No cheating out. Pony up, SU. This is ridiculous. If you want to compete with the big boys, you need to do things right. As the article states: "there are no half-measures for any major-conference athletic department anymore. You build to win or you lose at a fantastic pace. You’re in, or you’re irrelevant."

Northwestern's ambition clear with extensions for Fitzgerald, Collins

Northwestern is only providing some seed money. The rest is donations.

 

[Townie72]

That quote is 100% accurate, no hyperbole, but completely legit. If SU desires to be a player heading forward, then they need to commit or they will be a half measure in a major conference until potentially no longer being a part of a major conference.

SU is at a crossroads in my view. Basketball appears to have a downward trend, 3 straight years of relative mediocrity in the ACC with middle of the pack placement, missing 2 of 3 NCAA tournaments, with the potential likelihood of missing 3 of 4 come next march. Football, I'll just say it will continue to be an uphill battle just to get slightly north of mediocrity...there's only so much Babers can do.

If SU doesn't commit and isn't "all in" then they are likely destined to be irrelevant as a major sports player in the future. Proactive vs. reactive...often, the later is too late.

Easy enough to advise being "All In" when it isn't your money.

There's no guarantee that significant spending increases will have any affect.

I can think of at least two cases where significant spending on facilities has produced no results (Maryland and Rutgers football stadium expansions.)

 

[AlaskaSU]

Easy enough to advise being "All In" when it isn't your money.

There's no guarantee that significant spending increases will have any affect.

I can think of at least two cases where significant spending on facilities has produced no results (Maryland and Rutgers football stadium expansions.)

Doing nothing is a better option??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Bayside44]

Doing nothing is a better option??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Not sure what this argument is about...

 

[orangecuse]

Easy enough to advise being "All In" when it isn't your money.

There's no guarantee that significant spending increases will have any affect.

I can think of at least two cases where significant spending on facilities has produced no results (Maryland and Rutgers football stadium expansions.)

You're correct, as with many things in life, there are no guarantees. However, if SU doesn't significantly commit its resources (which they now have almost 4 times as much annually since being an ACC vs. Big East member and projected to go up further) improving its "valued" infrastructure, etc., it will no longer even remain status quo...that is guaranteed. You get out what you put in, again, it's all about the degree of commitment SU voluntarily chooses.

I donate annually to SU, along with contributing by going to games when I can (live in NC), purchasing licensed merchandise, etc. No doubt a very small fraction, but nonetheless contribute. FWIW, I'd also be willing to contribute additional monies once something official is announced. I also share the view that although SU is a private institution, the general public, tax payers, etc. benefit by SU's presence and wouldn't be against public money contributions to an extent. A general public benefit example is the Paul McCartney concert in the fall, holding state scholastic playoffs, championships, etc. is another.

Your cited two examples kind of support my argument that if you wait too long (reactive vs. proactive) it just might be too late to get the desired result. Although, in Rutger's case, they have really never been a player in their history relative to football or hoops.

 

[TinyManInside]

One possibility is that Gross was planning to scrap the dome completely and to save up to purchase an aircraft carrier to play all our games on. All of college basketball was trending in this direction a few years ago when DG, a pretty trendy guy, was in his prime. Wildhack may not want to completely abandon this plan because it comes with a very substantial ancillary benefit: On days where no game is scheduled, they could remove the basketball court and launch preemptive airstrikes against Pitt. With the carrier stationed in Onondaga Lake, our -35's and /A-18's would easily be within striking range of the Peterson Events Center. It may take another fund raising campaign to fully flesh out the air wing, but I think you'd all agree it would be a worthwhile investment.

This is one of the 5 best posts in the history of this board.

 

[dollarbill44]

Bro' you are making too much sense for people to follow you .

Let me assist

Revenue >>>
Expenses ===

Net ++++

Where da money ?

We're still paying off the mascot study.

 

[Townie72]

You're correct, as with many things in life, there are no guarantees. However, if SU doesn't significantly commit its resources (which they now have almost 4 times as much annually since being an ACC vs. Big East member and projected to go up further) improving its "valued" infrastructure, etc., it will no longer even remain status quo...that is guaranteed. You get out what you put in, again, it's all about the degree of commitment SU voluntarily chooses.

I donate annually to SU, along with contributing by going to games when I can (live in NC), purchasing licensed merchandise, etc. No doubt a very small fraction, but nonetheless contribute. FWIW, I'd also be willing to contribute additional monies once something official is announced. I also share the view that although SU is a private institution, the general public, tax payers, etc. benefit by SU's presence and wouldn't be against public money contributions to an extent. A general public benefit example is the Paul McCartney concert in the fall, holding state scholastic playoffs, championships, etc. is another.

Your cited two examples kind of support my argument that if you wait too long (reactive vs. proactive) it just might be too late to get the desired result. Although, in Rutger's case, they have really never been a player in their history relative to football or hoops.

As to "You get out what you put in" and the rest of the platitudes you are using, I'm afraid I think they are empty. This isn't physics or math. No one knows what the results of spending are going to be.

As in the case of Maryland spending a chunk of change on stadium expansion hoping for bigger crowds that never showed up, money spent on athletics doesn't always have a positive result.

What you are suggesting is a huge gamble and I don't think the University will take it. If they had found funding after their big announcement of plans, it would be different. But the NYS money always sounded very flaky to me as a prospect and the hoped-for naming rights bonanza was also pie-in-the sky.

Every time I read a fan on here saying you have to go for it or you'll be doomed, I think of the line from "Animal House" in which the frat brother tells Flounder, who is looking at the wreckage of his brother's car, "Hey, you screwed up. You trusted us."

 

[Townie72]

Doing nothing is a better option??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Well, the roof has to be replaced at a point in time.

I don't think there's the "facilities emergency" others think there is.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Ok haven't been following the bball side since Hop left. I know that the SU budget process has changed. What I don't know is how much is being taken from ACC monies to shore up the negative spending on the acedemic side including dipping into endowments. I think the acedemic side has been balanced for the last year or two so things seem stable now at both SU & SUAD. Whatever you think of the Chancellor he seems to understand budgets and matching operating income against operating expense without dipping into endowment equity.

What I posted on the football side is that SUAD has a new revenue stream coming in and that is ACC TV. I'm hearing that, along with donations, will give us a limited Dome redo where it's a fixed roof, led lighting and new sound. Along with other minor renovations, should be doable at about half of original estimated cost. Last resort is just to replace roof with fabric. Something's going to happen but I'm not expecting an announcement anytime soon unless they get pressured to. Obviously if Cuomo kicks in some money, will get more but that is less and less likely anymore.

Well, if they don't do a renovation that improves the corridors, concessions and bathrooms, and install actual seats, it will be a missed opportunity, and the fan experience will continue to suffer.

 

[IthacaMatt]

the admin needs to use this TV money and BB revenue and invest in the Dome project.

The money isn't going to stop flowing for another 20 years. We could easily get a 20 year mortgage or loan and pay back the expense. I get we want the state to kick in some money.

We need this administration to step up or at least explain that they are getting their books balanced because of red debt buildup from the previous administration.

This is my take-away from the discussion - I don't think the University administration properly recognizes the Dome as an asset. They think of it as an expense. That's why they are missing the boat on this.

They don't even seem to realize that their delays in announcing what's happening with the Dome is having an impact on fans and ticket sales. A better Dome experience would help with attendance.

 

[IthacaMatt]

As to "You get out what you put in" and the rest of the platitudes you are using, I'm afraid I think they are empty. This isn't physics or math. No one knows what the results of spending are going to be.

What you are suggesting is a huge gamble and I don't think the University will take it. If they had found funding after their big announcement of plans, it would be different. "

The alternative is to accept the downward trend in both major sports, and the fact that the Dome is dated and in need of repair. We will turn into a marginal program, attendance will continue to decline and they will kill off that Golden Cow that is providing the University with an extra $10M or so every year.

 

[GooseMutt]

As to "You get out what you put in" and the rest of the platitudes you are using, I'm afraid I think they are empty. This isn't physics or math. No one knows what the results of spending are going to be.

As in the case of Maryland spending a chunk of change on stadium expansion hoping for bigger crowds that never showed up, money spent on athletics doesn't always have a positive result.

What you are suggesting is a huge gamble and I don't think the University will take it. If they had found funding after their big announcement of plans, it would be different. But the NYS money always sounded very flaky to me as a prospect and the hoped-for naming rights bonanza was also pie-in-the sky.

Every time I read a fan on here saying you have to go for it or you'll be doomed, I think of the line from "Animal House" in which the frat brother tells Flounder, who is looking at the wreckage of his brother's car, "Hey, you screwed up. You trusted us."

With all due respect and I enjoy many of your posts, I think you are being a bit naive to believe facilities don't matter to the "diva" recruits that now roam the planet and to not react to an obvious trend and recruiting tool would be diasterous in " my" opinion and as mentioned proactive trumps reactive. It's the sign of the times and we need to keep up. I'll donate if something is initiated

 

[Bayside44]

I think there is a massive rush to judgement here. I would expect some improvements and other announcements to follow as we get in season.

 

[Toga]

That quote is 100% accurate, no hyperbole, but completely legit. If SU desires to be a player heading forward, then they need to commit or they will be a half measure in a major conference until potentially no longer being a part of a major conference.

SU is at a crossroads in my view. Basketball appears to have a downward trend, 3 straight years of relative mediocrity in the ACC with middle of the pack placement, missing 2 of 3 NCAA tournaments, with the potential likelihood of missing 3 of 4 come next march. Football, I'll just say it will continue to be an uphill battle just to get slightly north of mediocrity...there's only so much Babers can do.

If SU doesn't commit and isn't "all in" then they are likely destined to be irrelevant as a major sports player in the future. Proactive vs. reactive...often, the later is too late.

 

[Townie72]

Doing nothing is a better option??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Well, the roof has to be replaced at a point in time.

But I don't think the "Taj Mahal" approach has got the payback necessary.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Maryland's head coach was Randy Edsall for five years.

That may be another variable in the "Maryland football sucks" calculus.

 

[Townie72]

With all due respect and I enjoy many of your posts, I think you are being a bit naive to believe facilities don't matter to the "diva" recruits that now roam the planet and to not react to an obvious trend and recruiting tool would be diasterous in " my" opinion and as mentioned proactive trumps reactive. It's the sign of the times and we need to keep up. I'll donate if something is initiated

Yup, as you say, "in "my" opinion".

The bigger disaster would be to spend a bunch of money and then still be mediocre.

Of course, you could say, "Hey, in "my" opinion, it was worth a shot".

I'm afraid I'm not sure that you have any real idea what these "diva" recruits are considering. I think you are guessing.

 

[Townie72]

Maryland's head coach was Randy Edsall for five years.

That may be another variable in the "Maryland football sucks" calculus.

Whatever the reason, the facts are this.

1. Fridge produce some teams that were pretty good and Maryland attendance spiked.
2. Maryland hoping that this interest was a new reality spent a chunk of change building new seats, luxury boxes, etc.
3. Maryland's teams fell back to the post-Fridge era. The seats and luxury boxes went unsold.
4. Maryland, now deeper in debt then ever, had to accept the B1G invite. A conference they have little short or even medium term hope of ever being competitive in in football.

 

[HOFCeluck]

My bad. Lets not upgrade facilities.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think there is a massive rush to judgement here. I would expect some improvements and other announcements to follow as we get in season.

the only problem is, we've been saying that for about 3 years now since they first made an announcement about the campus corridor, or whatever the hell they call it

 

[JLine]

I'm alright with the uncomfortable seats. Just want some locker room upgrades to bring in recruits. Along with more allowed benefits that other schools give.

 

[atom58]

Easy enough to advise being "All In" when it isn't your money.

There's no guarantee that significant spending increases will have any affect.

I can think of at least two cases where significant spending on facilities has produced no results (Maryland and Rutgers football stadium expansions.)

This is what I have heard too - a negative version of the "Field of Dreams" movie quote: "build it and they won't come". ACC $$ will be up markedly 2016-2017 (Orange Bowl not in CFP, ACC team in Citrus Bowl, "channel clause" boost), and then the ACC channel in 2019. The FSU AD said it could reach $15 million or more EXTRA every year. Still, if I was the SU AD I might opt to improve seats, concessions, and bathrooms for the fans ("gameday experience"), improve FB and BB locker rooms (for recruiting), go with the least cost roof replacement, and see what happens. It's probably the thing to do.

 

[Hoo's That]

Whatever the reason, the facts are this.

1. Fridge produce some teams that were pretty good and Maryland attendance spiked.
2. Maryland hoping that this interest was a new reality spent a chunk of change building new seats, luxury boxes, etc.
3. Maryland's teams fell back to the post-Fridge era. The seats and luxury boxes went unsold.
4. Maryland, now deeper in debt then ever, had to accept the B1G invite. A conference they have little short or even medium term hope of ever being competitive in in football.

One important point you didn't mention that makes what you've listed even worse - Kay Yow, the Twerps' AD at the time and now NC State's AD, put together a committee to advise her whether to expand the stadium or not. Her hand-picked committee, unanimously IIRC, told her not to do it but she went ahead with the expansion anyway.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I'm alright with the uncomfortable seats. Just want some locker room upgrades to bring in recruits. Along with more allowed benefits that other schools give.

Wildhack has been very vocal about improving gameday experience so hopefully it happens soon. Not just seats and locker rooms but gotta get rid of Welcome to the Jungle, the lame starting lineup intos/pre-game atmosphere vibe, Mr. Excitement, various tech issues, etc. Needs to happen.