Where has the ACC money and Basketball money gone?

[Sherman20]

Jim Boeheim says Syracuse's move to the ACC will be good for him

Boeheim said he was against Syracuse leaving the Big East for the ACC back in 2003 when the ACC extended an invitation to Syracuse University. Now, though, Boeheim thinks the landscape has changed in ways that make Syracuse’s move not only necessary but more palatable as well.

Must be Happy Hour where you are.

JB didn't change his position. He was against it, but it was not his decision to make. He understood the logic, but was against it.

What could possibly not be clear about that?

Here's another article where JB gets into more detail about why the ACC move was the right one.
Jim Boeheim blames Syracuse's departure from Big East on Notre Dame and conference leadership

 

[Townie72]

This is key. JB didn't like the idea of leaving the BE, but he knew that for the long term survival of the entire athletic department, it needed to be done. Like a good soldier, he eventually went along. Publicly. And in the long run, I think he would admit it was a good move.

Good for the University as a whole, especially given the alternative.

But "challenging" for the basketball program as we have seen.

 

[Sherman20]

What he says in he text of that article is that it will be "challenging".

I have my doubts that SU will ever really be able to compete at the top of the ACC regularly. Spending a lot of money won't improve our chances much.

So Notre Dame can compete in the conference in basketball, but we can't? That's ridiculous.

 

[Townie72]

Here's another article where JB gets into more detail about why the ACC move was the right one.
Jim Boeheim blames Syracuse's departure from Big East on Notre Dame and conference leadership

Good for the University.

But again, he says it will be a "challenge" for the basketball program. No where in this or the other articles does he say that this will be good for the basketball program.

If you are going to post an article that buttresses your argument, you might try and find one that says what you are saying.

Everybody knows it was the only good choice the University had. But from a BB perspective it's "challenging' means it's going to be tougher than it was in the old Big East.

 

[Sherman20]

What he says in he text of that article is that it will be "challenging".

I have my doubts that SU will ever really be able to compete at the top of the ACC regularly. Spending a lot of money won't improve our chances much.

JB said this a week after the move was announced in 2011. Doesn't sound like a man who wants to stay in the Big East and not go to the ACC:

Boeheim: "I cant believe nobody wrote that this was a good move in your paper. All the letters were negative. And what theyre saying is Are we going to see great basketball teams games? What difference does it matter what the uniform says? If we play eight, 10, 12 great home games, what difference does it matter? If its great basketball, were playing great games. What matters if its Providence or its Wake Forest? Or Georgetown or Duke? As long as theyre going to see great basketball. Were not going to a bad league. It has the best record over the last 30 years of any league in the country. Period. Now right now, I think the Big East is a little better. But over 30 years? Theyve got the most championships, the most Final Four appearances, etc., etc. So were going to a great league and its going to be great basketball. Period. Its obviously a very stable league."

"Im unhappy the Big East broke up. Thats a completely different thing than saying Im unhappy about going to the ACC. I think its a great league. I think we can benefit from being in the ACC. Its a great basketball league. If anything, it helps our recruiting."

 

[Sherman20]

Good for the University.

But again, he says it will be a "challenge" for the basketball program. No where in this or the other articles does he say that this will be good for the basketball program.

Yes he does!

 

[Townie72]

JB said this a week after the move was announced in 2011. Doesn't sound like a man who wants to stay in the Big East and not go to the ACC:

Boeheim: "I cant believe nobody wrote that this was a good move in your paper. All the letters were negative. And what theyre saying is Are we going to see great basketball teams games? What difference does it matter what the uniform says? If we play eight, 10, 12 great home games, what difference does it matter? If its great basketball, were playing great games. What matters if its Providence or its Wake Forest? Or Georgetown or Duke? As long as theyre going to see great basketball. Were not going to a bad league. It has the best record over the last 30 years of any league in the country. Period. Now right now, I think the Big East is a little better. But over 30 years? Theyve got the most championships, the most Final Four appearances, etc., etc. So were going to a great league and its going to be great basketball. Period. Its obviously a very stable league."

"Im unhappy the Big East broke up. Thats a completely different thing than saying Im unhappy about going to the ACC. I think its a great league. I think we can benefit from being in the ACC. Its a great basketball league. If anything, it helps our recruiting."

I saw how disappointed JB was earlier. He did not want to go to the ACC. He wanted to stay in the Old Big East.

This sounds like "coach speak" to me. He's reacting to a bunch of negative stuff in a newspaper.

 

[Townie72]

Yes he does!

Yes he does!

No.

That's in the headline. But it is not in the body of the article.

He says it will be "good" for him because it's a challenge.

But he doesn't ever say it will be good for SU basketball.

 

[Sherman20]

Good for the University.

But again, he says it will be a "challenge" for the basketball program. No where in this or the other articles does he say that this will be good for the basketball program.

If you are going to post an article that buttresses your argument, you might try and find one that says what you are saying.

Everybody knows it was the only good choice the University had. But from a BB perspective it's "challenging' means it's going to be tougher than it was in the old Big East.

You're seizing on literally one word from that interview, which he clearly meant in a positive way and something he was looking forward to. This is like arguing with a Trump supporter.

"Thats where we recruit. Kids are interested in us and the ACC. Every kid we recruit is interested in us and the ACC. Period. Kids that were recruiting like us and the ACC. There arent many kids that dont like to play against Duke and North Carolina and those people"

 

[Alsacs]

You're seizing on literally one word from that interview, which he clearly meant in a positive way and something he was looking forward to. This is like arguing with a Trump supporter.

"Thats where we recruit. Kids are interested in us and the ACC. Every kid we recruit is interested in us and the ACC. Period. Kids that were recruiting like us and the ACC. There arent many kids that dont like to play against Duke and North Carolina and those people"

You aren't going to change his opinion. It's cool.

 

[Sherman20]

No.

That's in the headline. But it is not in the body of the article.

He says it will be "good" for him because it's a challenge.

But he doesn't ever say it will be good for SU basketball.

Literally from the time it was announced, JB was all for the move and said that it would be good FOR THE PROGRAM because of recruiting since our primary recruiting grounds are on the East Coast. Sorry, but JB isn't really one to traffic in lots of coach speak, let alone for an entire interview.

 

[Sherman20]

Good for the University.

But again, he says it will be a "challenge" for the basketball program. No where in this or the other articles does he say that this will be good for the basketball program.

If you are going to post an article that buttresses your argument, you might try and find one that says what you are saying.

Everybody knows it was the only good choice the University had. But from a BB perspective it's "challenging' means it's going to be tougher than it was in the old Big East.

I can't even. The entire article buttresses my argument.

Boeheim: "I think we can benefit from being in the ACC. Its a great basketball league. If anything, it helps our recruiting."

 

[atom58]

You may get an answer to your question if you can access the total budgets of the last 4 years - ticket sales and donations are generally the largest $$ resource and next comes the ACC $$ from the TV contract mainly. What I have seen in other schools is that athletic budgets are trending up - usually there are some visible signs of progress, such as Duke removing the track around their FB field and enlarging the stadium, the indoor practice facilities for FB which SU did get along with other ACC schools, and so forth. Expenditures include $$ for FB and BB coaches salaries and those are going up too. I also read SU replaced the turf in the Carrier Dome a year ago - don't know how much that cost. Doing stuff like that is much more expensive than I guess typically.

 

[kcsu]

Well, actually that would help. I mean if somebody who actually understood had an opinion. Instead of guys with an opinion on how SU ought to spend it's money to meet some impending threat they sense.

I know there are many on here who think a big facilities upgrade would somehow translate into SU being more competitive. But the responsible adults that run the University are going to need a lot more than that.

When I first started reading about this I was pretty sure that there wasn't going to be any NYS bonanza like there was in building the Dome. I was pretty sure that even if SU could wiggle out of the deal with Carrier on naming rights, that this wasn't going to be the source of a lot of money.

I've been skeptical the whole time and I'm still skeptical.

JB's opinion has even greater weight with me when I reflect back on his reluctance to take SU BB out of the BE and to put it in the ACC. He was against it and I think we are seeing now why he was against it.

JB has never embraced change. Heck he complained about moving out of Manley. Had we not joined the ACC Syracuse sports would be in a death spiral.

 

[kcsu]

Good for the University.

But again, he says it will be a "challenge" for the basketball program. No where in this or the other articles does he say that this will be good for the basketball program.

If you are going to post an article that buttresses your argument, you might try and find one that says what you are saying.

Everybody knows it was the only good choice the University had. But from a BB perspective it's "challenging' means it's going to be tougher than it was in the old Big East.

Challenging doesnt equate to against.

 

[Townie72]

Challenging doesnt equate to against.

Of course "challenging doesn't equate to against". With the challenging comment he was telling us that this was going to be a much more difficult environment to succeed in than was the Old Big East.

That's probably why he was against it when it was being considered. He wanted to succeed not fail. He would have preferred an easier path, not a harder one. He wanted to remain in a situation where SU had some leverage and not the ACC where it's a pretty open secret that UNC and Duke have a bigger voice than ours.

SU is an outlier in the ACC. Whereas the other BE school's might agree to whatever we said because we might leave the Conference, the old ACC schools don't care all that much. We could pretty easily be replaced. SU is a school that was thrown a life preserver by the ACC and every knows it (or should know it).

He is now reconciled to the fact that the Old Big East is dead and that SU had no choice but to go to the ACC when invited. So, his public comments reflect that. He's trying to put a little lipstick on the pig.

He's carefully choosing his words as in "It'll be challenging" which a bright fan might be able to see was a coded message saying, it's going to be tougher than it was in the BE, so you might want to ratchet down your expectations.

Of course some of the fan base seemingly unaware of the new reality of the ACC are running around waving their arms insisting that something has to be done about this, Fire the coach (or insist he retire)! Spend lots of money on facilities!

 

[AlaskaSU]

If we do not invest, we will be surpassed by others that are investing. To deny that facilities are influential is ridiculous. Since colleges cannot compete with pay they compete in every other possible way, including facilities. My point is that if we fall behind in ability to attract recruits, attendance and revenue will decline. The golden goose should be fed.

As to JB's true feelings one must look at the big picture and pay less attention to political / public announcements. He is conservative and skeptical of change. He is also perceptive and knows that there was no choice. The ACC was a bitter pill but the medicine was necessary.

 

[kcsu]

Of course "challenging doesn't equate to against". With the challenging comment he was telling us that this was going to be a much more difficult environment to succeed in than was the Old Big East.

That's probably why he was against it when it was being considered. He wanted to succeed not fail. He would have preferred an easier path, not a harder one. He wanted to remain in a situation where SU had some leverage and not the ACC where it's a pretty open secret that UNC and Duke have a bigger voice than ours.

SU is an outlier in the ACC. Whereas the other BE school's might agree to whatever we said because we might leave the Conference, the old ACC schools don't care all that much. We could pretty easily be replaced. SU is a school that was thrown a life preserver by the ACC and every knows it (or should know it).

He is now reconciled to the fact that the Old Big East is dead and that SU had no choice but to go to the ACC when invited. So, his public comments reflect that. He's trying to put a little lipstick on the pig.

He's carefully choosing his words as in "It'll be challenging" which a bright fan might be able to see was a coded message saying, it's going to be tougher than it was in the BE, so you might want to ratchet down your expectations.

Of course some of the fan base seemingly unaware of the new reality of the ACC are running around waving their arms insisting that something has to be done about this, Fire the coach (or insist he retire)! Spend lots of money on facilities!

Potato Potato

 

[HOFCeluck]

lol

 

[Townie72]

Potato Potato

That you cannot see the difference between these two things doesn't concern me. But it should you.

 

[Townie72]

If we do not invest, we will be surpassed by others that are investing. To deny that facilities are influential is ridiculous. Since colleges cannot compete with pay they compete in every other possible way, including facilities. My point is that if we fall behind in ability to attract recruits, attendance and revenue will decline. The golden goose should be fed.

As to JB's true feelings one must look at the big picture and pay less attention to political / public announcements. He is conservative and skeptical of change. He is also perceptive and knows that there was no choice. The ACC was a bitter pill but the medicine was necessary.

If the University were to spend a lot of money on upgrading facilities only to find out that it wasn't as important as they thought it might be, is the University better off on worse?

In your mind there is this cause and effect thing between facilities investment and competitiveness.

What you think you know probably isn't true.

But then again, it's not your money. And no one that matters is listening to you, anyway.

 

[atom58]

Since the original $$ question has devolved into a debate about BB coach JB, I couldn't help but recall seeing this quote from 9/17/2011, near the time the ACC move was rumored, about whether JB should have been consulted prior to the move:

JB was against going in to the Big east in the first place. He was also against playing in the Carrier Dome. Terrific basketball coach. Visionary, not so much.

 

[cuse10]

And Randolph to Arizona. Didn't the staff feel good about his recruitment before he chose Zona?

Whether they felt good or not, there were likely outside factors. Any kid that plays for PSA Cardinals shouldn't be considered a favorite for SU. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Bayside44]

So Notre Dame can compete in the conference in basketball, but we can't? That's ridiculous.

Notre Dame has a bunch of 24 year olds on their team. That hasn't been our model.

 

[longtimefan]

Notre Dame has a bunch of 24 year olds on their team. That hasn't been our model.

Look at the difference in the length of college career of SU's Grant vs ND's Grant.