Where has the ACC money and Basketball money gone?

[longtimefan]

I want the whole thing. Wider concourses, better concessions, new concession/food areas, a Cuse Hall of Fame. They cannot skimp on this. Do it right, like the Yum Center in Louisville. They were going to build a new hotel attached to the Dome. Won't they get revenue or money for that from whatever hotel builds there?

Yum Center is not a good example. The place is bleeding losses, but because the UofL admins were smart and/or the City of Louisville pols were stupid, the city, not the university, is on the hook.

 

[Townie72]

This is not a comparable statement:
"The basketball team is #2 in attendance with in the same facility with the same parking, the same concessions, the same seats and the same bathrooms."
If you get 30,000+ for basketball it is HUGE, not so much for football. Plus with basketball you have more options with the smaller lines for food/bathroom/etc...

Actually the average football crowd last year was less than 35,000. Not much of a difference in crowd sizes, I'd say.

The argument being made --- in the face of evidence --- doesn't seem to hold much water.

We can be #2 in attendance for basketball in the Dome in a building designed for football.

But for football, the Dome is so lacking in amenities (concessions, seats, width of concourse) that crowds are held down because of them. (???)

Football crowds are bigger, but not THAT much bigger. (35K average vs 25K vverage)

With logic like that as the basis for the argument I can see the University being very reluctant to bet that any significant spending would yield the kind of results there would have to be to justify it.

Now if someone wants to give them the money, that's different.

 

[Townie72]

Yum Center is not a good example. The place is bleeding losses, but because the UofL admins were smart and/or the City of Louisville pols were stupid, the city, not the university, is on the hook.

Study after study has shown that municipal "investments" in sports facilities have almost never had the returns that were promised by the proponents.

 

[HOFCeluck]

We just need Boeheim to get on board with facility upgrades. Townie will have no choice but to get on board.

 

[Alsacs]

Going back to my original post I want to know where the money has gone.

We have rakked in a lot of money and we haven't seen facilities upgrades.
The Ensley Centey was built on donations.

We need to hear from the AD what is going on. We pay Boeheim nothing and Shafer is off the payroll.

The university needs to get going on the Dome project. Poop or get off the can.

 

[Townie72]

We just need Boeheim to get on board with facility upgrades. Townie will have no choice but to get on board.

Well, actually that would help. I mean if somebody who actually understood had an opinion. Instead of guys with an opinion on how SU ought to spend it's money to meet some impending threat they sense.

I know there are many on here who think a big facilities upgrade would somehow translate into SU being more competitive. But the responsible adults that run the University are going to need a lot more than that.

When I first started reading about this I was pretty sure that there wasn't going to be any NYS bonanza like there was in building the Dome. I was pretty sure that even if SU could wiggle out of the deal with Carrier on naming rights, that this wasn't going to be the source of a lot of money.

I've been skeptical the whole time and I'm still skeptical.

JB's opinion has even greater weight with me when I reflect back on his reluctance to take SU BB out of the BE and to put it in the ACC. He was against it and I think we are seeing now why he was against it.

 

[Townie72]

Going back to my original post I want to know where the money has gone.

We have rakked in a lot of money and we haven't seen facilities upgrades.
The Ensley Centey was built on donations.

We need to hear from the AD what is going on. We pay Boeheim nothing and Shafer is off the payroll.

The university needs to get going on the Dome project. Poop or get off the can.

That money belongs to the University to spend as they see fit.

It isn't Athletic Department money although it helps to pay the cost of all the non-revenue sports programs. But if there's a surplus, it goes into the general revenue bucket.

 

[HOFCeluck]

That money belongs to the University to spend as they see fit.

It isn't Athletic Department money although it helps to pay the cost of all the non-revenue sports programs. But if there's a surplus, it goes into the general revenue bucket.

Isn't that how we fell behind during the Buzz era? AD revenue subsidized other depts without reinvesting it, other programs passed us, and look at the football program now.

 

[Townie72]

Isn't that how we fell behind during the Buzz era? AD revenue subsidized other depts without reinvesting it, other programs passed us, and look at the football program now.

I don't think we spent a lot less money on football than we did previously. It's all pretty carefully regulated by the NCAA which tells you how many scholarships, how many coaches, how many can travel, etc. Coaching salaries vary, but that's not the major expense. The decline in the football program was not the result of a reduction in the amount of financial support.

 

[Bayside44]

Wildhack would not be here if he didn't have the resources to complete. People need to settle down and trust his process.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't disagree, but you can't say we got lucky with TT, Battle, Dolezaj without attributing Tucker, Green, and others to bad luck. Calling it luck minimizes both the positives and negatives of what the staff is doing. That said, there is an unavoidable aspect of randomness to the decision of basketball recruits. That cannot be ignored, these are not executives getting a pitch in a board room. They are teenagers who have pickled their brains on social media and years of sycophantic adoration from various enabling adults. Think Trump after a few drinks.

This comment I amazing. Love it.

Yum Center is not a good example. The place is bleeding losses, but because the UofL admins were smart and/or the City of Louisville pols were stupid, the city, not the university, is on the hook.

I'm aware of those issues with the Yum. But it's a palace, and because I'm an irrational fan, I want one of those for SU. ; )

 

[Sherman20]

Well, actually that would help. I mean if somebody who actually understood had an opinion. Instead of guys with an opinion on how SU ought to spend it's money to meet some impending threat they sense.

I know there are many on here who think a big facilities upgrade would somehow translate into SU being more competitive. But the responsible adults that run the University are going to need a lot more than that.

When I first started reading about this I was pretty sure that there wasn't going to be any NYS bonanza like there was in building the Dome. I was pretty sure that even if SU could wiggle out of the deal with Carrier on naming rights, that this wasn't going to be the source of a lot of money.

I've been skeptical the whole time and I'm still skeptical.

JB's opinion has even greater weight with me when I reflect back on his reluctance to take SU BB out of the BE and to put it in the ACC. He was against it and I think we are seeing now why he was against it.

JB was not against it. He said many times that he understood football drove the bus, and SU needed to go to a power conference where the money could be made. He told Gross that he much preferred the ACC to the Big 10 because he felt SU could maintain its recruiting terrain and advantages playing in an East Coast conference.

 

[orangecuse]

Well, actually that would help. I mean if somebody who actually understood had an opinion. Instead of guys with an opinion on how SU ought to spend it's money to meet some impending threat they sense.

I know there are many on here who think a big facilities upgrade would somehow translate into SU being more competitive. But the responsible adults that run the University are going to need a lot more than that.

When I first started reading about this I was pretty sure that there wasn't going to be any NYS bonanza like there was in building the Dome. I was pretty sure that even if SU could wiggle out of the deal with Carrier on naming rights, that this wasn't going to be the source of a lot of money.

I've been skeptical the whole time and I'm still skeptical.

JB's opinion has even greater weight with me when I reflect back on his reluctance to take SU BB out of the BE and to put it in the ACC. He was against it and I think we are seeing now why he was against it.

Uh huh. Just as JB never wanted to leave the friendly confines of Manley to play hoops in the Dome. The Dome, along with the advent of ESPN, launched SU's hoops program from regional player to national. Now, I'm a huge JB fan...as a coach. He's not a visionary. Being reluctant to join the ACC, if indeed accurate, would be another example of his lack of prowess from a visionary standpoint. If SU was not incredibly fortunate to land in the ACC, the SU athletic department would be on the same path as UConn's.

SU's current status as a middle of the pack ACC hoops team is 100% on JB and his recent big time misses on the recruiting trail...the one's we didn't get and the one's we did who aren't/weren't P5 worthy. The sanctions, lost schollies arguably have played a role with our middle of the pack ACC standing, along with the unforeseen early departures, but nowhere as significant as the aforementioned misses.

ND's hoops success in the ACC since its inclusion has been just fine. No reason we shouldn't have expected similar results to theirs.

 

[OrangeDW]

Put AC in and make the seats/concourses wider. Those are the only things I really care about. Being squished and having people stepping over you to get out of their seats is no fun...even less so when it's hot and stuffy in there for football.

Wider concourses would be nice too, so I can get to and from the bathroom before halftime is over. I don't spend a lot of time looking at the roof, so I couldn't care less how they choose to update it. As long as it's not going to fall on me, I don't care.

Light shows don't do much for me either.

If as part of the upgrade, we could get the PA guy to shut the hell up during timeouts and kill all those stupid AAA baseball game type contests I'd be thrilled. Let the band play.

I'm there to watch the game.

 

[Alsacs]

That money belongs to the University to spend as they see fit.

It isn't Athletic Department money although it helps to pay the cost of all the non-revenue sports programs. But if there's a surplus, it goes into the general revenue bucket.

I mean thank you for stating the obvious.
When you don't hold anyone accountable nothing gets done.

The University needs to invest or just settle into being a tomato can for the rest of the ACC.

Nobody wants spending like a drunken sailor but investing has to be done on the Dome. Optimistic news spreads like crazy for recruiting.

We haven't announced anything and the rumor was the 2015 season we were going to do the renovation.
That news was used to try and justify keeping Shafer another year thank goodness we didn't as nothing has been announced.

 

[Townie72]

JB was not against it. He said many times that he understood football drove the bus, and SU needed to go to a power conference where the money could be made. He told Gross that he much preferred the ACC to the Big 10 because he felt SU could maintain its recruiting terrain and advantages playing in an East Coast conference.

That's not how I remember it at all.

He said something to the effect that we would be crazy to leave a conference in which we were a leading voice to one controlled by a few other schools.

He was against it. (Sorry to be blunt, but you are wrong.)

 

[orange79]

That's not how I remember it at all.

He said something to the effect that we would be crazy to leave a conference in which we were a leading voice to one controlled by a few other schools.

He was against it. (Sorry to be blunt, but you are wrong.)

He was against it, but he understood.

 

[Alsacs]

That's not how I remember it at all.

He said something to the effect that we would be crazy to leave a conference in which we were a leading voice to one controlled by a few other schools.

He was against it. (Sorry to be blunt, but you are wrong.)

Jim Boeheim says Syracuse's move to the ACC will be good for him

Boeheim said he was against Syracuse leaving the Big East for the ACC back in 2003 when the ACC extended an invitation to Syracuse University. Now, though, Boeheim thinks the landscape has changed in ways that make Syracuse’s move not only necessary but more palatable as well.

 

[Alsacs]

He was against it, but he understood.
View attachment 100144

Famous flip flop line from John Kerry.

 

[Townie72]

He was against it, but he understood.
View attachment 100144

Thanks for interjecting with what actually happened.

That some don't understand this relatively concept or know what the history was isn't surprising.

 

[Townie72]

Famous flip flop line from John Kerry.

Must be Happy Hour where you are.

JB didn't change his position. He was against it, but it was not his decision to make. He understood the logic, but was against it.

What could possibly not be clear about that?

 

[Alsacs]

Must be Happy Hour where you are.

JB didn't change his position. He was against it, but it was not his decision to make. He understood the logic, but was against it.

What could possibly not be clear about that?

I am guessing you skipped the article I linked where JB said the move was good for him personally and for the University.

 

[Sherman20]

That's not how I remember it at all.

He said something to the effect that we would be crazy to leave a conference in which we were a leading voice to one controlled by a few other schools.

He was against it. (Sorry to be blunt, but you are wrong.)

I believe you are wrong. When it came down to it, he was on board. At least publicly.

 

[orange79]

I believe you are wrong. When it came down to it, he was on board. At least publicly.

This is key. JB didn't like the idea of leaving the BE, but he knew that for the long term survival of the entire athletic department, it needed to be done. Like a good soldier, he eventually went along. Publicly. And in the long run, I think he would admit it was a good move.

 

[Townie72]

Jim Boeheim says Syracuse's move to the ACC will be good for him

Boeheim said he was against Syracuse leaving the Big East for the ACC back in 2003 when the ACC extended an invitation to Syracuse University. Now, though, Boeheim thinks the landscape has changed in ways that make Syracuse’s move not only necessary but more palatable as well.

What he says in he text of that article is that it will be "challenging".

I have my doubts that SU will ever really be able to compete at the top of the ACC regularly. Spending a lot of money won't improve our chances much.