Which is better?

[OrangeDW]

Here’s the problem with great regular seasons. 2005 we went 27-6 and won the BET, but one game in March ruined the entire year.

While true, personally I’d gladly accept rooting for a really good team and absorbing the nutkick Vermont loss and getting irrationally pissed that we dare lose to UConn and Pitt at home(when those teams were really good) vs. spending most of the games posting inane observations in the game thread because we’re so mediocre and you just know the games really don’t matter.

I’ll take 7 2005’s in a row, over our last 7 years, personally.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Yes. When the chips were down, we didn’t have a Carmelo/Wes/Waiters elite level guy on that 2013 team.

Probably the best defensive team we’ve had though. Those Indians/Marquette games were just absolutely ridiculous defense. We were a machine on that end when locked in.

Even the Michigan game they were great, Michigan was #1 adjusted Offense on KenPom that year and the zone held them to 61 points and 39% shooting. Unfortunately the bad offense in the 1st half and the terrible call on Triche ended the season.

 

[MSOrange]

While true, personally I’d gladly accept rooting for a really good team and absorbing the nutkick Vermont loss and getting irrationally pissed that we dare lose to UConn and Pitt at home(when those teams were really good) vs. spending most of the games posting inane observations in the game thread because we’re so mediocre and you just know the games really don’t matter.

I’ll take 7 2005’s in a row, over our last 7 years, personally.

Agree even with those heartbreaking NCAA losses, I think having the solid overall records puts you in better position to build on it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

While true, personally I’d gladly accept rooting for a really good team and absorbing the nutkick Vermont loss and getting irrationally pissed that we dare lose to UConn and Pitt at home(when those teams were really good) vs. spending most of the games posting inane observations in the game thread because we’re so mediocre and you just know the games really don’t matter.

I’ll take 7 2005’s in a row, over our last 7 years, personally.

I get it. I am just saying personal out of all the years Gerry was here that is the season I remember the least.

 

[OrangeDW]

Agree even with those heartbreaking NCAA losses, I think having the solid overall records puts you in better position to build on it.

And at least provided you a really solid 4 months of entertainment. Like, the 2005 team spent a lot of the year ranked highly. I remember beating a good Rodney Carney led Memphis at MSG to win the preseason NIT. I remember thumping good WVU teams every time, the epic comeback at the Dome to beat ND in front of the record crowd. The epic comeback at Rutgers. The way we just turned it on and got clicking and just took over. You always knew we would make a run. That was a great season - we just couldn’t beat Pitt or UConn.(though we knocked them off in the BET). It’s why the Vermont nutkick hurt so much - I loved and enjoyed that team for 4 months.

 

[DoctorBombay]

If I have to choose between going 30-3 and losing in the 2nd Round, versus going 19-10 and making it to the Final 4? I'll take the Final 4 every time.
For better or worse, that is now the nature of cbb. Not saying the regular season is totally meaningless, but Final 4's and NCs are what a program is measured by.
You can have all the reg season ACC or BE titles you want. If I'm standing there on the Final weekend in front of the entire college, international, and national bball world, that makes up for whatever attention you might've received as a good/great program during the regular season.
Did I enjoy the good years where we won conference or tourney titles? Most definitely!
But given a choice of one OR the other, on this topic I agree w/ JB. JMHO

 

[OrangeDW]

If I have to choose between going 30-3 and losing in the 2nd Round, versus going 19-10 and making it to the Final 4? I'll take the Final 4 every time.
For better or worse, that is now the nature of cbb. Not saying the regular season is totally meaningless, but Final 4's and NCs are what a program is measured by.
You can have all the reg season ACC or BE titles you want. If I'm standing there on the Final weekend in front of the entire college, international, and national bball world, that makes up for whatever attention you might've received as a good/great program during the regular season.
Did I enjoy the good years where we won conference or tourney titles? Most definitely!
But given a choice of one OR the other, on this topic I agree w/ JB. JMHO

Thing is, we’ve literally made one final four run ever after that type of season. JB was kinda playing loose with what actually happened, when he was spinning that “last 10 years we haven’t been that good in the regular seasons, but we make tourney runs!”

 

[DoctorBombay]

Thing is, we’ve literally made one final four run ever after that type of season. JB was kinda playing loose with what actually happened, when he was spinning that “last 10 years we haven’t been that good in the regular seasons, but we make tourney runs!”

Understood. And we had plenty of years in between those Final 4 runs where we were excellent as a program, and I get that. But honestly, unless you're a diehard like everyone on this board, how many of those ranked/conf championship/conf tourney final seasons do you remember? And certainly not like we do the Final 4's.
Maybe it's the grumpy old man in me- but dammit, I'm looking for end results. You can have your fancy-schmancy 30 win season, just give me a Final 4 weekend game, no matter how unlikely, and I'm good.

 

[djcon57]

Even the Michigan game they were great, Michigan was #1 adjusted Offense on Ken Pom that year and the zone held them to 61 points and 39% shooting. Unfortunately the bad offense in the 1st half and the terrible call on Triche ended the season.

i need to watch the end of that game again. I feel like we were much closer to winning then I remember

 

[Cusefan0307]

Even the Michigan game they were great, Michigan was #1 adjusted Offense on Ken Pom that year and the zone held them to 61 points and 39% shooting. Unfortunately the bad offense in the 1st half and the terrible call on Triche ended the season.

Yeah. Not a great game by MCW and that scrub Albrecht came off the bench and hit a few bombs against us. The Triche play was for the tie.

 

[Alsacs]

i need to watch the end of that game again. I feel like we were much closer to winning then I remember

Michigan missed a chitload of FTs.
We had the ball down 2 with 15 seconds left Triche could have shot a 3 but had a drive and we know what happened.
We honestly shouldn’t have gotten that close but McGary and Burke missed FTs.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Michigan missed a chitload of FTs.
We had the ball down 2 with 15 seconds left Triche could have shot a 3 but had a drive and we know what happened.
We honestly shouldn’t have gotten that close but McGary and Burke missed FTs.

Just watched the end. Triche had an and one with 70 seconds left and missed a free throw. Michigan then missed a ft and Southerland hit a 3 to cut it to one. Michigan went 1 of 2 At the line the next trip. Triche cooked Levert and had a lane to the basket and Morgan cut in and they called a charge. In the NBA that probably is a block, but you know college officials.

 

[Alsacs]

Just watched the end. Triche had an and one with 70 seconds left and missed a free throw. Michigan then missed a ft and Southerland hit a 3 to cut it to one. Michigan went 1 of 2 At the line the next trip. Triche cooked Levert and had a lane to the basket and Morgan cut in and they called a charge. In the NBA that probably is a block, but you know college officials.

McGary missed 2 FTs before the Triche and 1.
Then as you said Trey Burke went 1 for 2.

We had the ball with a chance to tie and Triche got screwed.

 

[Chip]

Being a better team is a better predictor of tournament success.

I mean, I loved the 2016 run (who wouldn't), but maybe if we had a better team, we could still have gone to the Final 4, and played a tougher game in the semis.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Yeah. Not a great game by MCW and that scrub Albrecht came off the bench and hit a few bombs against us. The Triche play was for the tie.

And that really sucked because he played so well against Indiana and Marquette and looked to be back in early season form.

McGary being an X factor also didn't help our cause

 

[Cusefan0307]

McGary missed 2 FTs before the Triche and 1.
Then as you said Trey Burke went 1 for 2.

We had the ball with a chance to tie and Triche got screwed.

It gets better. Michigan went 1 of 2 the next possession, but we were down to Cooney at guard and he attempted some running floater that had no shot at all without even looking for a 3.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Michigan missed a chitload of FTs.
We had the ball down 2 with 15 seconds left Triche could have shot a 3 but had a drive and we know what happened.
We honestly shouldn’t have gotten that close but McGary and Burke missed FTs.

Michigan actually wasn't that great of a FT team that year. 70% as a team which was 157th in the country.

 

[Sherman20]

JB stressed the Final Fours that we went to in 2013 and 2016, when we went 30-10 and 23-14 and finished the regular season ranked 19th and not even receiving votes as if it made those seasons as good as the 2010, 2012 and 2014 seasons when we went 30-5, 34-3 and 28-6 and wound up ranked 3rd, 2nd and 11th after being ranked #1 for a total of 10 weeks.

Obliviously the ultimate goal is a post season run to a championship and any Final Four run is enjoyable but I have to say that i enjoyed 2010, 2012 and 2014 more than 2013 and 2016 because we were good for four months rather than two weeks. We had a better team to root for with far fewer controversies and frustrations. This board is a more pleasant read after a win, (or at least a winning streak) than after a loss and our outlook tends to be dictated by how recent seasons have gone. We were clearly a happier fan base from 2009-14 than in 2015-21. I'm sure we'd like to go back - or get back - to those days.

Did you enjoy 2013 and 2016 as much as 2010, 2012 and 2014? Did the runs we had at the end of those season make them as good as season as 2010, 2012 and 2014? Were the teams as good? Did the runs make you feel as good about the state of the program?

Disagree on 2013. We were a top 10 team for a good chunk of 2012-13 (and top 25 all season). We beat Louisville, the #1 team in the country and eventual national champion, on their home floor. That is a rare occurrence. The Big East was a beast and we didn’t play all that well the last couple weeks of the regular season when we had a few tough road losses (and a couple we should have won...Marquette). Southerland also missed a game or two in there, I think. Our conference record was solid. We played really badly against Gtown twice. Also, our tourney runs were over a four week period. It is utter nonsense to equate the 2013 to 2016 seasons at all. It’s frustrating when fans of the program can’t acknowledge and appreciate one of the best seasons we’ve had in the past 20 years. ...Even the 2016 season wasn’t all that bad. We looked awesome at the Battle for Atlantis early in the year and beat three good teams down there. Some of our bad losses that season happened while JB was serving his suspension.

 

[syrBossHogg]

i need to watch the end of that game again. I feel like we were much closer to winning then I remember

I actually didn't watch the game live but I remember it feeling like one of those games where SU didn't play that well but based on the talent level, they still had a shot to tie/win at the end

 

[Sherman20]

My thoughts exactly. I’d rather have 4-5 months of fun and excitement and quite frankly something to look forward to during Syracuse winters. Yes the heartbreaks of tourney losses like in 87, 89, 90, 91, 92, 94, 95, 96, 00, 05, 10, 12, 13, 14 (wow we have had a lot of tourney heartbreaks including multiple overtime losses) sting and were tough to get over but it means you got there and had a successful season leading up to that point. I’d rather feel heartbreak than apathy, which is where some of us are heading with this string of mediocre regular seasons and being out of the national limelight. I miss being ranked and playing big time matchups on national television.

I’d add 2011 in there, too, in terms of tourney heartbreaks. We shoulda won that game against Marquette to go to the Sweet 16.

 

[tbonezone]

a top coach at a top university should be able to keep his program consistently in the top 25 come march.
that usually means you're recruiting top talent and coaching them into a cohesive winning formula.

if you can't you ain't.

 

[Cuse1055]

I’d add 2011 in there, too, in terms of tourney heartbreaks. We shoulda won that game against Marquette to go to the Sweet 16.

Yep the controversial over and back violation.

 

[OttoMets]

...The team lost 9 games because the Big East was ridiculous before we left. Much better than anything the ACC has put out since we have joined.

Eh, I maintain that we lost double-figure games mostly because of two interrelated circumstances: 1) we had basically a first-year point guard who made a lot of freshman-type mistakes, and 2) Boeheim adopted this micromanagerial strategy (that he's pretty much held on to ever since) because after three years with on-court coaches he no longer had upper-class players who he 100% trusted. And that lowered our offensive ceiling.

That was a very up-and-down team from the beginning; they coughed up big leads to Arkansas and whichever team they beat for Boeheim's 900th win (Detroit? I remember ushers in the Dome coming around and starting to take back the "900!" placards that they'd handed out as the lead dwindled to nothing). The Villanova loss was a singular "this isn't 2010-2012 anymore moment." Temple was so disappointing, first non-conference loss in 4 years. And 39 points against Georgetown was as much a reflection of Syracuse's problems as it was Georgetown's strength.

Trouble was, they didn't have a ton of depth (Triche actually played small forward every so often) and guys hadn't fully found their roles in a new offensive system yet. And then the Southerland academic situation totally torpedoed his season - people forget, but he was playing very well; then Boeheim had to rejigger the lineup for a month; but then when Southerland returned he was a shell of himself. He didn't start to play well until MSG.

But they did have some talented players. Carter-Williams showed brilliance in between his WT_?! choices; Fair was starting to get a comfort level with his perimeter game; and Triche would occasionally totally carry the team in the way that Bilas and Boeheim said he should do every night. Essentially they were like a lot of SU teams: they could (and did) beat anyone on the schedule and lose to anyone on the schedule. After the previous three years that was kind of a let-down, but it was still a good year.

 

[OttoMets]

The 2010 team did lose by double digits to 9 seed Louisville on the road. I think that Georgetown team was ranked in the top 10 at the time we played them.

I think the 2013 team's ceiling was as high as those three other teams, especially when Southerland/Triche/Fair were knocking down shots. But that team's floor was lower than the other 3 teams and they were more with their inconsistent play, hence why they lost more games in the regular season.

I've got to throw out any Boeheim results against Pitino or Dixon. Just wasn't a good matchup, regardless of the relative strength of the teams.

 

[OttoMets]

...

Anyway I wonder if UConn remembers the Rudy Gay team that lost to George Mason better than the Kemba Walker team that won a few years later.

I'll tell you what, though, as a rival fan I've got a lot less respect for the Walker team than I do their '06 group. Fluke losses happen to good teams (especially when you've got to play an underdog in single-elimination in their home city).