Which is better?

[kirbivore]

I'll tell you what, though, as a rival fan I've got a lot less respect for the Walker team than I do their '06 group. Fluke losses happen to good teams (especially when you've got to play an underdog in single-elimination in their home city).

That was the most satisfying storz loss. That ‘06 team was reprehensible with laptop, powder, and juwanna man

 

[Cusefan0307]

2011 really wasn’t a Cinderella either. They were a 3 seed that lost 9 Big East games because the conference was ridiculously tough. 2014 UConn may have been the worst national title team ever though.

 

[SWC75]

Some good stuff in there but a few additional observations:

You left out JB's technical foul in the Iowa game. Very costly.

I'd have to disagree about the comparison of the 1986 and 1987 teams. Derrick Coleman was a massive difference maker on the 1987 team. That 1986 team had nobody remotely in his area code. Seikaly also made a huge jump from 1986 to 1987 in terms of performance on both ends of the floor. Lastly, I loved Pearl but the team hit another gear with Sherm at PG.

In your last paragraph I believe you meant to say the 2012 team had the best regular season.

1985-86

Pearl Washington 32.2m 21.5p 3.1r 9.7a 3.2s 0.0b 37.5+ 7.3mfg 1.8mft 4.1to 3.4pf 16.6- = 20.9NP 12.4OE 8.5FG
Wendell Alexis 31.8m 19.1p 9.3r 2.0a 1.7s 1.3b 33.4+ 6.4mfg 0.9mft 2.2to 3.6pf 13.1- =
20.3NP 11.8OE 8.5FG
Rafael Addison 31.6m 18.9p 7.1r 5.2a 1.6s 0.6b 33.4+ 7.1mfg 0.7mft 2.8to 2.7pf 13.3- =
20.1NP 11.1OE 9.0FG
Rony Seikaly 27.3m 14.8p 11.4r 0.7a 1.1s 4.4b 32.4+ 4.6mfg 2.8mft 2.8to 5.2pf 15.4- =
17.0NP 7.4OE 9.6FG
Howie Triche 21.8m 13.5p 7.3r 2.3a 1.7s 0.2b 25.4+ 5.3mfg 0.7mft 1.6to 5.5pf 13.1- =
12.3NP 7.5OE 4.8FG
----------------------------
Michael Brown 17.9m 17.2p 5.0r 1.9a 1.2s 0.3b 25.6+ 7.6mfg 0.9mft 2.1to 5.3pf 15.9- =
9.7NP 8.7OE 1.0FG
Greg Monroe 16.4m 11.1p 3.3r 6.8a 1.9s 0.2b 23.3+ 5.1mfg 1.0mft 2.1to 1.1pf 9.3- =
14.0NP 5.0OE 9.0FG
Rodney Walker 12.6m 10.5p 9.9r 0.6a 0.9s 0.4b 22.3+ 4.9mfg 1.5mft 1.7to 7.1pf 15.2- =
7.1NP 4.1OE 3.0FG
Derek Brower 11.5m 12.3p 12.0r 0.9a 3.0s 1.3b 29.5+ 5.8mfg 3.8mft 3.1to 8.7pf 21.4- =
8.1NP 2.7OE 5.4FG
Sherman Douglas 11.4m 19.0p 4.3r 7.4a 4.3s 0.7b 35.7+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 4.3to 4.3pf 15.0- = 20.7NP 12.6OE 8.1FG

1986-87

Sherman Douglas 32.6m 21.3p 3.1r 9.3a 2.1s 0.2b 36.0+ 7.0mfg 1.7mft 3.9to 2.3pf 14.9- = 21.1NP 12.6OE 8.5FG
Greg Monroe 31.0m 16.6p 3.2r 5.2a 1.5s 0.0b 25.0+ 6.4mfg 0.6mft 1.8to 1.7pf 10.5- =
14.5NP 9.6OE 4.9FG
Derrick Coleman 30.6m 15.6p 11.4r 1.5a 1.5s 2.3b 32.3+ 4.7mfg 1.7mft 2.3to 4.1pf 12.8- = 19.5NP 8.1OE 11.4FG
Howie Triche 30.1m 15.6p 6.3r 3.1a 1.4s 0.2b 26.6+ 6.5mfg 1.0mft 2.6to 3.8pf 13.9- =
12.7NP 8.1OE 4.6FG
Rony Seikaly 27.1m 22.2p 12.0r 1.4a 1.1s 3.0b 39.7+ 6.4mfg 3.7mft 2.9to 4.3pf 17.3- =
22.4NP 12.1OE 10.3FG
------
Rodney Walker 12.9m 13.7p 12.2r 0.9a 0.9s 0.2b 27.9+ 6.2mfg 1.5mft 2.7to 6.0pf 16.4- = 11.5NP 6.0OE 5.5FG
Stevie Thompson 12.2m 16.6p 6.0r 2.4a 0.6s 1.9b 27.5+ 7.2mfg 3.4mft 3.8to 4.0pf 18.4- = 9.1NP 6.0OE 3.1FG
Derek Brower 10.3m 12.1p 11.1r 2.0a 0.9s 1.9b 28.0+ 5.1mfg 3.0mft 3.3to 7.6pf 19.0- =
9.0NP 4.0OE 5.0FG
Herman Harried 7.8m 10.7p 9.9r 2.6a 1.2s 2.8b 27.2+ 4.3mfg 3.1mft 3.9to 8.2pf 19.5- =
7.7NP 3.3OE 4.4FG

 

[two3zone]

According to KenPom 2010 would be favored against 2012 and 2003 at full strength.

Seems to be a popular opinion as well, and while I love and appreciate advanced stats and KenPom, I’d bet the farmhouse on the 2012 team against either one of them.

 

[OttoMets]

The 2012 team lost one game with Fab Melo in the lineup, losing by three to Cinci in the BET semis. Hard to do much better than that. MCW was their 4th guard and Waiters came off the bench. Deepest team by far that JB ever had.

No doubt.

It's an interesting conversation, though. The 2012 team's Achilles heel: an opponent that could move the ball, overload one side of the zone, and score from 5 positions. 2010's strength: moving the ball and scoring from 5 positions.

Might be a case where an excellent offense trumps an excellent defense.

 

[OttoMets]

Another fun moment from that season was we started the year on a boat and beat a good SDSU team. Remember how the boat games were a big thing for like 2 seasons until most of them got cancelled due to conditions.

That's right, and I think ours got postponed for a day or two because the court was slippery when the game was originally scheduled.

Kind of a silly gimmick, but it was a good win. I remember SU got a million dunks and Dajuan Coleman went absolutely berserk when he scored his first basket.

 

[sutomcat]

That's right, and I think ours got postponed for a day or two because the court was slippery when the game was originally scheduled.

Kind of a silly gimmick, but it was a good win. I remember SU got a million dunks and Dajuan Coleman went absolutely berserk when he scored his first basket.

This video gives a behind the scenes look at what it was like to attend a game on an aircraft carrier. The couple was unfortunately Aztec fans so there is little focus on the game itself.

 

[sufandu]

Seems to be a popular opinion as well, and while I love and appreciate advanced stats and KenPom, I’d bet the farmhouse on the 2012 team against either one of them.

I'm not going to say for certain 2012 would or would not win, but if they played I wonder how certain matchups would work out. Who guards Melo?

 

[SUskibum]

I've always thought some of our other '80's teams were better than '87. 2003 will always be an outlier because it's the only NC, and Melo is an X factor because he is far and away the best player of the 2000's with the ability to take over a game the way nobody else could.

Yup, another anomaly that the metrics won’t pick up is teams that are young and look different the last 10 games vs the first 10 games.

2003 was 3 frosh and 3 soph out of our top 8 players with only Duany and McNeil having more than 2 yrs experience

The team that handled Texas & Kansas was not the same team that struggled vs Memphis or Rutgirls

(disclaimer I am actually in a quantitative field so I lean toward metrics, this is just an outlier observation)

 

[SUskibum]

I'm not going to say for certain 2012 would or would not win, but if they played I wonder how certain matchups would work out. Who guards Melo?

Keeping in mind that the team that gave Melo and the rest of the 03 team fits was UConn with their suffocating D backed by an elite shot blocker (okefor)

 

[OttoMets]

Might be getting my Melos mixed up, but we're talking about the 2003 small forward, yeah?

Could be interesting. He was an adequate outside shooter back then, but he'd really be a natural to camp out at the high post and collapse the zone. My offensive questions for 2003 would be: could McNamara penetrate? could they run and maximize possessions? would Forth be an asset or a spectator? and (if they didn't play an up-tempo game) would the threes fall?

I would tend to favor 2003 over 2012, but I think it's a closer matchup than 2010 or any of the late '80s teams against 2012. Pretty intriguing matchup, actually.

(If we're talking about Fab, disregard the rest of the analysis, obviously. In his case, it's not entirely fair, but his offensive development was really disrupted by the suspension. I'm not sure a defense would plan around him.)

 

[sufandu]

Might be getting my Melos mixed up, but we're talking about the 2003 small forward, yeah?

Could be interesting. He was an adequate outside shooter back then, but he'd really be a natural to camp out at the high post and collapse the zone. My offensive questions for 2003 would be: could McNamara penetrate? could they run and maximize possessions? would Forth be an asset or a spectator? and (if they didn't play an up-tempo game) would the threes fall?

I would tend to favor 2003 over 2012, but I think it's a closer matchup than 2010 or any of the late '80s teams against 2012. Pretty intriguing matchup, actually.

(If we're talking about Fab, disregard the rest of the analysis, obviously. In his case, it's not entirely fair, but his offensive development was really disrupted by the suspension. I'm not sure a defense would plan around him.)

I think Forth would be his solid self against Fab. I'm not sure McNamara would have to penetrate. Edelin could do that with McNamara and Melo good enough shooting threats to keep the zone from collapsing. Or if Duany and Gmac are in the game with Melo at the foul line, how is that defended? Melo would have every option available. Kick out to Duany or Gmac, shoot it or drive, or dump down to Warrick. Melo was so good it's easy to forget we had 4 guys average in double figures that year and Edelin was close.

I think 88-89 would be a tough matchup. None of the teams in the 2000's had two guys that ended up being legit player of the year candidates. We shouldn't forget just how elite Coleman and Owens were.

 

[OttoMets]

I think Forth would be his solid self against Fab. I'm not sure McNamara would have to penetrate. Edelin could do that with McNamara and Melo good enough shooting threats to keep the zone from collapsing. Or if Duany and Gmac are in the game with Melo at the foul line, how is that defended. Melo would have every option available. Kick out to Duany or Gmac, shoot it or drive, or dump down to Warrick. Melo was so good it's easy to forget we had 4 guys average in double figures that year and Edelin was close.

I think 88-89 would be a tough matchup. None of the teams in the 2000's had two guys that ended up being legit player of the year candidates. We shouldn't forget just how elite Coleman and Owens were.

My question about the 1989 team: would they show up needing to dominate and win? Or would they be apathetic and hungover?

Because that'd really determine the game right there. If it's the former, they'd beat every great Syracuse team from this century by 15. If not, they could easily lose by that margin.

 

[two3zone]

I'm not going to say for certain 2012 would or would not win, but if they played I wonder how certain matchups would work out. Who guards Melo?

We play zone, nobody in particular, but he isn’t posting up like he did while he played here against Fab Melo.

 

[sufandu]

My question about the 1989 team: would they show up needing to dominate and win? Or would they be apathetic and hungover?

Because that'd really determine the game right there. If it's the former, they'd beat every great Syracuse team from this century by 15. If not, they could easily lose by that margin.

I'm assuming everyone plays to their potential. Owens was essentially Melo before Melo and DC was, well, DC.

 

[sufandu]

We play zone, nobody in particular, but he isn’t posting up like he did while he played here against Fab Melo.

He did well his rookie year in the NBA with the presence of NBA centers, so I don't think Fab's presence intimidates him much. I think he scores in ways outside of posting up and facilitates to others. He could be a zone killer at the foul line.

 

[Ajflood12]

I'm not going to say for certain 2012 would or would not win, but if they played I wonder how certain matchups would work out. Who guards Melo?

Wouldn’t they all play exclusive zone D?

 

[two3zone]

Wouldn’t they all play exclusive zone D?

Then why did you ask who would guard Melo?

 

[Ajflood12]

Then why did you ask who would guard Melo?

I didn’t say that. But you did beat me to the zone d post. I didn’t see yours.

 

[sufandu]

Wouldn’t they all play exclusive zone D?

You're right. I address that in some other posts.

 

[Ajflood12]

You're right. I address that in some other posts.

Didn’t scroll down enough. Haha.