Which is better?

[OttoMets]

And at least provided you a really solid 4 months of entertainment. Like, the 2005 team spent a lot of the year ranked highly. I remember beating a good Rodney Carney led Memphis at MSG to win the preseason NIT. I remember thumping good WVU teams every time, the epic comeback at the Dome to beat ND in front of the record crowd. The epic comeback at Rutgers. The way we just turned it on and got clicking and just took over. You always knew we would make a run. That was a great season - we just couldn’t beat Pitt or UConn.(though we knocked them off in the BET). It’s why the Vermont nutkick hurt so much - I loved and enjoyed that team for 4 months.

Same. This was my senior year of college and that remains one of my top 5 favorite teams of all time. They were very talented and fun to watch and seemed destined for better things than that Worcester game, but for four months they were riveting.

 

[Cuse1055]

Same. This was my senior year of college and that remains one of my top 5 favorite teams of all time. They were very talented and fun to watch and seemed destined for better things than that Worcester game, but for four months they were riveting.

Yep and that team will always be another “what-if” scenario regarding the potential of Billy had he not gone through the ups and eventual downs of his time here at SU, that season especially. We kept looking for one more player to step up that season between DNic, Louie, and TRob. It’s too bad because all we needed was one more outside shooting threat, which is something DNic ended up being the following 2 years. Also, the ridiculous TRob tech for slapping the backboard after a dunk still irks me because you never see that called.

 

[chugg21]

I'd rather be happy for 4 months over 2 weeks if the end result is losing in the Sweet 16. Final Four makes things a bit closer but still preferable to me to be a good top 10ish team all year unless it's a title.

 

[NineOneSeven]

This seems obvious to me. Go back in time to that Sat home game in 2010 against Villanova and tell me that wasn't one of the best days/seasons ever. Absolutely electric.

 

[Cuse1055]

This seems obvious to me. Go back in time to that Sat home game in 2010 against Villanova and tell me that wasn't one of the best days/seasons ever. Absolutely electric.

I would give this post a double like if I could.

 

[lindros2]

i need to watch the end of that game again. I feel like we were much closer to winning then I remember

I was at the game (in Atlanta) live.
It was tough to watch at the Georgia Dome, and from the Friday practice to the game they just didn’t look as good as they had.

 

[bpo57]

Very difficult to compare teams from different eras but to me the five best all time SU teams in no particular order: 2003, 1987, 2012, 1989 and 1980. If Feb Melo played in the 2012 NCAAT I believe SU faces off against an unbelievably stacked UK team in the NC final. That 89 team beat Seton Hal three times and of course SH lost a heartbreaker in the Finals to Michigan.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

This seems obvious to me. Go back in time to that Sat home game in 2010 against Villanova and tell me that wasn't one of the best days/seasons ever. Absolutely electric.

It must be true. I saw it on a t-shirt

 

[Newhouser]

We might have gotten Kevin Huerter if Tyus never came, which would've been ok. Ideally we would've taken both of them but I think cause of the sanctions we could only take one.

IMO here's how I would breakdown the missing pieces for the seasons I mentioned
2014/15 - PG (Ennis)
2015/16 - C
2016/17 - C (also needed a PG to complement Gillon)
2017/18 - C
2018/19 - PG (also needed more offense from the C position)

That's a good debate - Huerter or Tyus?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Very difficult to compare teams from different eras but to me the five best all time SU teams in no particular order: 2003, 1987, 2012, 1989 and 1980. If Feb Melo played in the 2012 NCAAT I believe SU faces off against an unbelievably stacked UK team in the NC final. That 89 team beat Seton Hal three times and of course SH lost a heartbreaker in the Finals to Michigan.

According to KenPom 2010 would be favored against 2012 and 2003 at full strength.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

1987 beats all our other teams in a best of 7 except maybe the team that lost to Illinois

 

[bpo57]

According to KenPom 2010 would be favored against 2012 and 2003 at full strength.

The 2012 team lost one game with Fab Melo in the lineup, losing by three to Cinci in the BET semis. Hard to do much better than that. MCW was their 4th guard and Waiters came off the bench. Deepest team by far that JB ever had.

 

[sufandu]

According to KenPom 2010 would be favored against 2012 and 2003 at full strength.

I can believe that. That team was so balanced with maybe the best chemistry of any team I've seen. The one thing that team lacked was a guy that could create for himself when absolutely necessary and sometimes those guys just take over games. Seeing 2003 against 2010 would be interesting.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I can believe that. That team was so balanced with maybe the best chemistry of any team I've seen. The one thing that team lacked was a guy that could create for himself when absolutely necessary and sometimes those guys just take over games. Seeing 2003 against 2010 would be interesting.

Yeah I think It’s interesting that a lot of past metrics don’t agree with some of the fans opinion. If you go by SRS we had 3 other teams in the 80’s that were stronger than 87 and 3 teams in the 2000’s stronger than 03 so it does appear fans value tourney success more than they admit.

 

[bpo57]

Yeah I think It’s interesting that a lot of past metrics don’t agree with some of the fans opinion. If you go by SRS we had 3 other teams in the 80’s that were stronger than 87 and 3 teams in the 2000’s stronger than 03 so it does appear fans value tourney success more than they admit.

You seem to place an inordinate amount of emphasis on these metrics. That 87 team was a helluva team that didn't just get hot in the NCAAT. Their front line was way better than anything that preceded it in the 1980s. The 1989 team was very close to the 1987 team but Monroe and Howie Triche were glue guys that did a lot of good things and Brower was an underrated big off the bench.

 

[sufandu]

The 2012 team lost one game with Fab Melo in the lineup, losing by three to Cinci in the BET semis. Hard to do much better than that. MCW was their 4th guard and Waiters came off the bench. Deepest team by far that JB ever had.

I don't think anybody is saying that team wasn't great. It's just that the 2010 team was the ultimate the-sum-is-greater-than-its-parts team. It would be an interesting matchup.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I can believe that. That team was so balanced with maybe the best chemistry of any team I've seen. The one thing that team lacked was a guy that could create for himself when absolutely necessary and sometimes those guys just take over games. Seeing 2003 against 2010 would be interesting.

I maintain the 2010 team was the best team I have ever seen. Efficiency was off the charts. 7 starters. The AO injury was brutal. And I hate thinking about that Butler game, but it's not like that team did not have some great talent and coaching too.

 

[bpo57]

I don't think anybody is saying that team wasn't great. It's just that the 2010 team was the ultimate the-sum-is-greater-than-its-parts team. It would be an interesting matchup.

I hear ya. I just think people forget how good that team was with Melo in the lineup. Whole nother ballgame when he was in there cuz of his defensive presence.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You seem to place an inordinate amount of emphasis on these metrics. That 87 team was a helluva team that didn't just get hot in the NCAAT. Their front line was way better than anything that preceded it in the 1980s. The 1989 team was very close to the 1987 team but Monroe and Howie Triche were glue guys that did a lot of good things and Brower was an underrated big off the bench.

It’s just an observation. I was a child in the 80’s so I have no opinion on those teams as the end of that decade was when I first remember watching the teams play. Anyway I think I would take 2010 over 2012 because at full strength it was easier for that team to score.

 

[sufandu]

Yeah I think It’s interesting that a lot of past metrics don’t agree with some of the fans opinion. If you go by SRS we had 3 other teams in the 80’s that were stronger than 87 and 3 teams in the 2000’s stronger than 03 so it does appear fans value tourney success more than they admit.

I've always thought some of our other '80's teams were better than '87. 2003 will always be an outlier because it's the only NC, and Melo is an X factor because he is far and away the best player of the 2000's with the ability to take over a game the way nobody else could.

 

[Alsacs]

I maintain the 2010 team was the best team I have ever seen. Efficiency was off the charts. 7 starters. The AO injury was brutal. And I hate thinking about that Butler game, but it's not like that team did not have some great talent and coaching too.

2012 had more depth but the 2010 team was more fun to watch.

I still remember the Big Monday game against Georgetown they came out to a 14-0 deficit to start and I was like not even worried one iota.
Came back and won by 17.

2010 was the better team IMO.

 

[Cuse1055]

Eh, I maintain that we lost double-figure games mostly because of two interrelated circumstances: 1) we had basically a first-year point guard who made a lot of freshman-type mistakes, and 2) Boeheim adopted this micromanagerial strategy (that he's pretty much held on to ever since) because after three years with on-court coaches he no longer had upper-class players who he 100% trusted. And that lowered our offensive ceiling.

That was a very up-and-down team from the beginning; they coughed up big leads to Arkansas and whichever team they beat for Boeheim's 900th win (Detroit? I remember ushers in the Dome coming around and starting to take back the "900!" placards that they'd handed out as the lead dwindled to nothing). The Villanova loss was a singular "this isn't 2010-2012 anymore moment." Temple was so disappointing, first non-conference loss in 4 years. And 39 points against Georgetown was as much a reflection of Syracuse's problems as it was Georgetown's strength.

Trouble was, they didn't have a ton of depth (Triche actually played small forward every so often) and guys hadn't fully found their roles in a new offensive system yet. And then the Southerland academic situation totally torpedoed his season - people forget, but he was playing very well; then Boeheim had to rejigger the lineup for a month; but then when Southerland returned he was a shell of himself. He didn't start to play well until MSG.

But they did have some talented players. Carter-Williams showed brilliance in between his WT_?! choices; Fair was starting to get a comfort level with his perimeter game; and Triche would occasionally totally carry the team in the way that Bilas and Boeheim said he should do every night. Essentially they were like a lot of SU teams: they could (and did) beat anyone on the schedule and lose to anyone on the schedule. After the previous three years that was kind of a let-down, but it was still a good year.

Another fun moment from that season was we started the year on a boat and beat a good SDSU team. Remember how the boat games were a big thing for like 2 seasons until most of them got cancelled due to conditions.

 

[bpo57]

It’s just an observation. I was a child in the 80’s so I have no opinion on those teams as the end of that decade was when I first remember watching the teams play. Anyway I think I would take 2010 over 2012 because at full strength it was easier for that team to score.

And i would take the 2012 team because they were better on defense with Melo in the lineup and could get instant offense with Waiters or MCW off the bench. Two NBA first round draft picks coming off the bench. Just off the top of my head that team had at least 7 guys that were NBA draft picks, most in the first round.

 

[SWC75]

2003 has to be #1 on any 'team favorites' list but we've had other teams as good, IMHO.

The best of the Louie and Bouie teams was the last, (1980), which rose to #2 but couldn't beat Georgetown. We were pulling ahead of Iowa when JB slapped on a full court press to try to finish them off and instead it finished us off. That's why he doesn't use it proactively any more.

All the teams from 1985-86 to 1990-91 were great and it makes me wonder what heights we could have achieved without the first probation. That 1986 team had three different occasions when they prevented teams from scoring a field goal for at least 10 minutes. Injuries hurt us down the stretch. The 1987 team was put together from the remaining pieces of the 1986 team plus the best recruiting class we ever had but I thought at the time that the 1986, when fully healthy, was better.

The 1996 run helped re-stablish us as a power and the 2000 team was very good. Then came 2003, which we didn't do a good job of following up on. 2010 is probably my favorite team. I call it the "Noah's Ark team" as we had two of everything: a couple of inside scorers, a couple of outside shooters, a couple of guys driving to the basket, two point guards, etc. Still, 2012 had the best regular season. We'd have bene undefeated if Melo hadn't been suspended. the only game we lost with him was Cincy in the BET when the Bearcats turned into Golden State from the arc.

Hmmm... how about a tournament?

 

[bpo57]

2003 has to be #1 on any 'team favorites' list but we've had other teams as good, IMHO.

The best of the Louie and Bouie teams was the last, (1980), which rose to #2 but couldn't beat Georgetown. We were pulling ahead of Iowa when JB slapped on a full court press to try to finish them off and instead it finished us off. That's why he doesn't use it proactively any more.

All the teams from 1985-86 to 1990-91 were great and it makes me wonder what heights we could have achieved without the first probation. That 1986 team had three different occasions when they prevented teams from scoring a field goal for at least 10 minutes. Injuries hurt us down the stretch. The 1987 team was put together from the remaining pieces of the 1986 team plus the best recruiting class we ever had but I thought at the time that the 1986, when fully healthy, was better.

The 1996 run helped re-stablish us as a power and the 2000 team was very good. Then came 2003, which we didn't do a good job of following up on. 2010 is probably my favorite team. I call it the "Noah's Ark team" as we had two of everything: a couple of inside scorers, a couple of outside shooters, a couple of guys driving to the basket, two point guards, etc. Still, 2010 had the best regular season. We'd have bene undefeated if Melo hadn't been suspended. the only game we lost with him was Cincy in the BET when the Bearcats turned into Golden State from the arc.

Hmmm... how about a tournament?

Some good stuff in there but a few additional observations:

You left out JB's technical foul in the Iowa game. Very costly.

I'd have to disagree about the comparison of the 1986 and 1987 teams. Derrick Coleman was a massive difference maker on the 1987 team. That 1986 team had nobody remotely in his area code. Seikaly also made a huge jump from 1986 to 1987 in terms of performance on both ends of the floor. Lastly, I loved Pearl but the team hit another gear with Sherm at PG.

In your last paragraph I believe you meant to say the 2012 team had the best regular season.