Which scenario happens first?

[Alsacs]

It's a two way street. Old Big East and current ACC get value from the arrangement.

America hates the 1 percenters.

Old Big East was used. Notre Dame Football gave nothing to the Big East Football conference except take bowl slots. They were suppose to try and play 3 BE FB teams every year they did no such thing. The ACC smartly made the 5 annual games part of a signed contract. OBE BB schools let ND have their cake and eat it too. Those BB schools didn't give a crap about the FB schools needs.

ND isn't a true partner they do what is there best interest. Do I understand that? Yes, but just because you can do it doesn't mean its good. Why does USC play at Washington State or Oregon State? Or Texas play at Iowa State? Or Florida State play at Wake?

Notre Dame isn't the only team that could be Independent. The value ACC got is way more than the value the BE. This two way street is significantly slanted in ND's favor.

 

[orangefog]

I think it will be Miami winning their division. I have no idea how they don't win it every year.

 

[rrlbees]

It's a two way street. Old Big East and current ACC get value from the arrangement. America hates the 1 percenters.

Bottom line is the BE bent over backwards because they felt ND helped them get better and more bowl access. The ACC does it because they hope ND eventually joins. Both had/have arrangements but feel there is benefit for different reasons.

 

[Chip]

Bottom line is the BE bent over backwards because they felt ND helped them get better and more bowl access. The ACC does it because they hope ND eventually joins. Both had/have arrangements but feel there is benefit for different reasons.

The ACC also gets the scheduling arrangement. Getting ND at your stadium is a big deal (even SU has them coming back to the Dome now). Going to South Bend guarantees you a national TV appearance at the most storied stadium in the land.

Old Big East had no power and made some desperate moves. Funny watching people point a finger at ND for it.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Old Big East was used. Notre Dame Football gave nothing to the Big East Football conference except take bowl slots. They were suppose to try and play 3 BE FB teams every year they did no such thing. The ACC smartly made the 5 annual games part of a signed contract. OBE BB schools let ND have their cake and eat it too. Those BB schools didn't give a crap about the FB schools needs.

Other than ND's involvement with the Gator Bowl (which the BE was about to get thrown out of unless ND was included), what other bowls did ND steal?

 

[Alsacs]

Bottom line is the BE bent over backwards because they felt ND helped them get better and more bowl access. The ACC does it because they hope ND eventually joins. Both had/have arrangements but feel there is benefit for different reasons.

The Big East didn't even get better bowl access thanks to ND. The Gator Bowl dropped the BE. They just used the BE like crazy and because the BE BB schools honestly didn't care they got away with it.

 

[Alsacs]

Other than ND's involvement with the Gator Bowl (which the BE was about to get thrown out of unless ND was included), what other bowls did ND steal?

You honestly look to argue with me. I find it cute. You are too smart to not get my points. You may disagree but please don't act like you don't get my points. What benefit did the BE FB schools get from ND FB?

 

[Alsacs]

The ACC also gets the scheduling arrangement. Getting ND at your stadium is a big deal (even SU has them coming back to the Dome now). Going to South Bend guarantees you a national TV appearance at the most storied stadium in the land.

Old Big East had no power and made some desperate moves. Funny watching people point a finger at ND for it.

OBE could have made ND play X amount of games against BE football teams or kicked ND BB and Olympic sports out of the conference. This is what ACC did they made ND sign a contract. The BE didn't put an ultimatum on ND and allowed ND to have its cake and eat it too. ND BB wasn't anything special. ND got the BET in NYC and got the BE BB at home.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You honestly look to argue with me. I find it cute. You are too smart to not get my points. You may disagree but please don't act like you don't get my points. What benefit did the BE FB schools get from ND FB?

Other than keeping the Gator Bowl 2 out of 4 years, the BE got nothing.

Other than having the opportunity to play in J'ville 2 out of 4 years, ND got nothing.

It was a shared bowl agreement for ONE bowl. Nothing more. ND never took a BCS slot away from a BE team, nor did they poach any other bowl.

IMO: Having your 2nd place team in a New Year's Day bowl game 2 out of 4 years is better than having your 2nd place team stuck in Charlotte a few days after Christmas permanently. Especially when you're the weakest sister of the BCS conferences.

 

[Alsacs]

Other than keeping the Gator Bowl 2 out of 4 years, the BE got nothing.

Other than having the opportunity to play in J'ville 2 out of 4 years, ND got nothing.

It was a shared bowl agreement for ONE bowl. Nothing more. ND never took a BCS slot away from a BE team, nor did they poach any other bowl.

IMO: Having your 2nd place team in a New Year's Day bowl game 2 out of 4 years is better than having your 2nd place team stuck in Charlotte a few days after Christmas permanently. Especially when you're the weakest sister of the BCS conferences.

2011 Notre Dame took the Big East bowl slot of Champ Sports Bowl. That was not the Gator Bowl or J'ville. So I guess it wasn't just 1 bowl.

 

[Chip]

OBE could have made ND play X amount of games against BE football teams or kicked ND BB and Olympic sports out of the conference. This is what ACC did they made ND sign a contract. The BE didn't put an ultimatum on ND and allowed ND to have its cake and eat it too. ND BB wasn't anything special. ND got the BET in NYC and got the BE BB at home.

Like I said, OBE had no power (or no balls...or both). ACC does. That's the difference. So I disagree with OPA's premise that ND is just using the ACC, as if the league isn't getting anything out of it.

 

[Alsacs]

Like I said, OBE had no power (or no balls...or both). ACC does. That's the difference. So I disagree with OPA's premise that ND is just using the ACC, as if the league isn't getting anything out of it.

It was the latter. If the OBE BB schools wanted to helped the FB schools they could have given ND an ultimatum to play 3 BE FB schools or take your Olympic sports/BB elsewhere. Now the BB schools didn't care because they thought ND was with them in voting blocs. ND showed those BB schools though when the FB schism occurred that ND wasn't interesting being in a Catholic schools league.

ND is about ND pure and simple. Unless you make them sign a contract they don't care about their non-Navy partners.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

2011 Notre Dame took the Big East bowl slot of Champ Sports Bowl. That was not the Gator Bowl or J'ville. So I guess it wasn't just 1 bowl.

They could be picked once in 4 years. And they had the good fortune to be picked in a year when Syracuse wasn't bowl eligible (in fact, only 5 of 8 BE teams were eligible in 2011).

Didn't hurt me at all. And if the only way the BE could keep the Russell Athletic Bowl in Orlando was to let ND have a sniff once every four years, it didn't hurt them either.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I may be wrong, but when the ND issue came up at the BE meetings in 1994, I believe the vote to include them was unanimous.

Obviously there were 12 BE University Presidents who saw some benefit to having ND as a member.

 

[Alsacs]

They could be picked once in 4 years. And they had the good fortune to be picked in a year when Syracuse wasn't bowl eligible (in fact, only 5 of 8 BE teams were eligible in 2011).

Didn't hurt me at all. And if the only way the BE could keep the Russell Athletic Bowl in Orlando was to let ND have a sniff once every four years, it didn't hurt them either.

That is not known. Who would the RA bowl gone with? The BE#2 or another conference #6 or 7. The BE didn't need ND to get this deal. The RA bowl people were better negotiators. That is your opinion which is fine but just like mine in this response nobody knows whose is right.

I was just showing it wasn't just 1 bowl. ND did nothing to help the BE FB teams.

 

[Alsacs]

I may be wrong, but when the ND issue came up at the BE meetings in 1994, I believe the vote to include them was unanimous.

Obviously there were 12 BE University Presidents who saw some benefit to having ND as a member.

C'mon you are smart please stop with this. The Big East was adding Rutgers and West Virginia as full members. By adding ND the BB schools were keeping the majority 7-6 on voting matters.
Notice when the BE added USF, UL, UC they added DePaul and Marquette to keep the BB schools equal in voting matters.

Please realize this stuff isn't done for no reason. The BB schools never wanted to be a minority. This stuff was part of the problem with the BE. It was 2 entities operating as one. The BB schools didn't care enough about the FB schools problems as much as they should have.

 

[retro44]

1) The long awaited ACC Network materializes...
2) Notre Dame joins the ACC for football finally...
3) The Big XII implodes leaving West Virginia clamoring for an ACC life raft again...
4) Penn State leaves the Big Ten after having enough of the Ohio/Michigan favoritism in that league and joins the ACC which shows no favoritism...[Coughs] North Carolina schools
5) UConn joins the ACC...
6) College Football Playoff expands to 8 or more teams...
7) Miami wins the Coastal division in football...
8) [write-in prediction]

It's been two years now since your school joined the ACC and I want to take this opportunity to say I love having your school associated with our league and I hope you're adjusting to the new alliances and developing rivalries (I know Clemson is on the s##t list now due to our douchebag fans who booed your injuries in our game last year). It's been fun competing against your teams, though. I was at that bowl game as a child when you kicked our a##es up and down the field and I grew up watching your epic Big East battles in basketball (Gerry McNamara became a personal hero of mine) so it's a thrill for me to see your block letter "S" symbol with the ACC logo nearby it now. I love your fans (I've communicated via PM with some really gracious, informative, and intriguing ones), most of all because of the passion exhibited and unwavering Orange love which is inspiring. Plus, the Rutgers Dumpster Fire thread keeps me :rolling:when times get tough in my life...

I also want to wish your football team much success this season and here's to many hard fought and exciting games for your school with no major injuries dealt to any of its players . I hope your fans have some great memories to celebrate after it's over...

Okay, I'll crawl back into my hole now...Oh, one more thing...Better make that two...

I know your previous AD, Dr. Daryl Gross, was big on getting Syracuse into the Atlanta and Miami markets more in football season and felt changing our current divisions and/or conference games per season model would help. Does your current AD feel the same way? I personally like our divisions the way they are but was wondering how your fans felt if any care to share...

Lastly, at the bottom of this thread is my peace offering to CanadianSU on this board. I know this person does not care for my kind via the many anti-Clemson posts I've read but I want this frothy offering to prove that we're not all complete d-bags (God knows I have my moments, though)...I've pulled some out of my cybercooler for all Cuse readers who need a long day stress reliever so enjoy! Cheers everyone! Football season is almost here!

P.S.- Your message board here is the absolute best in the conference. Its user interface is fantastic! Okay, I'm done. Thanks for having me as a guest and allowing me to post here...

you forgot no. 9)....Retro44 will consume those Molson's before CanadianSU crosses the border.

 

[007]

That is not known. Who would the RA bowl gone with? The BE#2 or another conference #6 or 7. The BE didn't need ND to get this deal. The RA bowl people were better negotiators. That is your opinion which is fine but just like mine in this response nobody knows whose is right.

I was just showing it wasn't just 1 bowl. ND did nothing to help the BE FB teams.

I don't have a dog in this fight (other than maybe it took away from the OP's original message) and I despise ND's ability to demand preferential status - but having ND tangentially associated with BE football increased the value/revenue of their TV contracts. Some would also argue that the presence of ND football allowed the BE to "survive" a little longer than it should have. Not sure if that was a benefit or not...

 

[PhatOrange]

#6 expanded playoff.

And I know I love being in the ACC. I love the football. Can't wait to make it down for a game some day.

 

[OrangePA]

It's a two way street. Old Big East and current ACC get value from the arrangement.

America hates the 1 percenters.

It's a two way street, but the outgoing lane to ND is a four-lane superhighway compared to the dirt road from South Bend to ACC headquarters.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't have a dog in this fight (other than maybe it took away from the OP's original message) and I despise ND's ability to demand preferential status - but having ND tangentially associated with BE football increased the value/revenue of their TV contracts. Some would also argue that the presence of ND football allowed the BE to "survive" a little longer than it should have. Not sure if that was a benefit or not...

If you want to believe this fine. ESPN was not giving BE football anymore more money because ND DID NOT PLAY a BE team outside of Pitt home/home. So how were they getting money? The BE survived because the BCS conferences had mercy on the conference and gave them an auto BCS bid out of respect for Mike tranghese. If people think ND football helped the BE FB conference that is completely moving the goalposts.

 

[Alsacs]

If ND from 2005 on had played 3 of Rutgers, UConn, USF, Louisville, Pitt, Cincinnati, West Virginia , Pitt, Syracuse annually that would have actually helped the conference financially. Instead they only played Pitt home/home and got the benefits of playing a BE basketball schedule.
Marinatto was the worst Commish of alltime now he had a tough hand but he has bad.

 

[Scooch]

"I hate you Notre Dame!!!!! Pleeeease join our conference!" = every thread about ND on this board ever.

 

[Chip]

It's a two way street, but the outgoing lane to ND is a four-lane superhighway compared to the dirt road from South Bend to ACC headquarters.

Big East was a dirt road.

ACC's is paved. Maybe ND has an extra lane, but it's good for the ACC. If the P5 can pull it off and force full conference membership for playoff inclusion, the ACC sits in a great spot for where they'd land. Much better spot than the Big East ever did.

 

[Alsacs]

"I hate you Notre Dame!!!!! Pleeeease join our conference!" = every thread about ND on this board ever.

I don't want them. Obviously they would add value to the conference. If we never played ND again I would be happy. They aren't good partners.