Which scenario happens first?

[anomander]

I would like to see #4 happen the most. PSU joining the ACC would be great for both parties. I know there is almost no chances that happens, especially as things are now, but having another northern school would benefit Syracuse, Pitt, and BC, and add a nationally relevant FOOTBALL program for FSU, and Clemson.

However for the sake of the OP, i'm going with #8, other. Syracuse wins the Atlantic. We're due, odds are in our favor that it happens. I mean if Wake, and Maryland can win the ACC, then so can Syracuse.

 

[Alsacs]

I would like to see #4 happen the most. PSU joining the ACC would be great for both parties. I know there is almost no chances that happens, especially as things are now, but having another northern school would benefit Syracuse, Pitt, and BC, and add a nationally relevant FOOTBALL program for FSU, and Clemson.

However for the sake of the OP, i'm going with #8, other. Syracuse wins the Atlantic. We're due, odds are in our favor that it happens. I mean if Wake, and Maryland can win the ACC, then so can Syracuse.

Penn State was actually a possible addition and that is why the Big Ten proactively added Rutgers and Maryland. That was the first move the Big Ten did that wasn't centered around Ohio State/Michigan and was done for Penn State. The Penn state fanbase hates the Big Ten. Their admin and faculty love the CIC and the paychecks are high enough and cash.

 

[HtownOrange]

Regardless of what we may think about ND, by having them aligned with the ACC we block the B1G from landing them. Yeah, I know that ND does not want to join the B1G, but if the P5 force the issue, it is all but assured that ND will go anywhere else and most likely to the ACC (even after the current agreement).

 

[OrangeMon]

6) College Football Playoff expands to 8 or more teams...

 

[Ringostar57]

er Number 9; Hell freezes over.

 

[OrangeTown]

1) The long awaited ACC Network materializes...
2) Notre Dame joins the ACC for football finally...
3) The Big XII implodes leaving West Virginia clamoring for an ACC life raft again...
4) Penn State leaves the Big Ten after having enough of the Ohio/Michigan favoritism in that league and joins the ACC which shows no favoritism...[Coughs] North Carolina schools
5) UConn joins the ACC...
6) College Football Playoff expands to 8 or more teams...
7) Miami wins the Coastal division in football...
8) [write-in prediction]

My answer is...

NOT #5.

 

[Alsacs]

Regardless of what we may think about ND, by having them aligned with the ACC we block the B1G from landing them. Yeah, I know that ND does not want to join the B1G, but if the P5 force the issue, it is all but assured that ND will go anywhere else and most likely to the ACC (even after the current agreement).

The P5 will never force the issue. The NCAA doesn't care and ND will never give up full independence. The ACC is getting a benefit that the Big East never did in that ND has to play its member schools every year.
Sadly Dr. Gross while we were in the Big East sold away our benefit for the most pat. I don't blame the ACC one iota. I wish our games were at home. This issue is dead and I won't say anymore on that.

I just wish we never played ND FB again. They have no respect for our program.

 

[Alsacs]

I really need to take a year off of work and write a book on college expansion. This book is a gold mine for whatever person spends the time and does it right.

 

[OrangePA]

Big East was a dirt road.

ACC's is paved. Maybe ND has an extra lane, but it's good for the ACC. If the P5 can pull it off and force full conference membership for playoff inclusion, the ACC sits in a great spot for where they'd land. Much better spot than the Big East ever did.

That would seem to make sense.

For some reason, I think ND will evade the conference requirement.

 

[Chip]

That would seem to make sense.

For some reason, I think ND will evade the conference requirement.

I think they will do it for as long as they can. But playoff inclusion could be the gamechanger for them. I don't know who even governs it anymore, is it the NCAA? And if so, would the P5 be able to break away? Either way, you can't force ND out without the TV carrier for the playoffs signing off on it. Then what happens when the G6 or whatever the 3rd world country of remaining teams is called, runs to Congress? Does it create enough noise to get one team who meets certain criteria included? Does that open the door for ND to maintain independence.

All fairly fascinating. But you know all the power in the Power 5 conferences would like to see them in a conference instead of enjoying independence.

 

[Alsacs]

I think they will do it for as long as they can. But playoff inclusion could be the gamechanger for them. I don't know who even governs it anymore, is it the NCAA? And if so, would the P5 be able to break away? Either way, you can't force ND out without the TV carrier for the playoffs signing off on it. Then what happens when the G6 or whatever the 3rd world country of remaining teams is called, runs to Congress? Does it create enough noise to get one team who meets certain criteria included? Does that open the door for ND to maintain independence.

All fairly fascinating. But you know all the power in the Power 5 conferences would like to see them in a conference instead of enjoying independence.

NCAA has nothing to do with CFB playoffs governance. The NCAA runs FCS, D-II, D-III national championship tournaments. The 11 D-1 conferences govern the CFB playoffs and the power is heavily weighed toward the P5+ND. As long as the P5 give 1 New Year's Six slot to the G6 conferences they won't do anything.
ND fans would rather be independent and not NC champions than join a conference for a shot at the NC. Right now they can do both be independent and are eligible for the CFB playoffs.
ND knows conference titles are an important metric for the committee but if they go 12-0 they will make the CFB playoffs. If they go 11-1 and four conference champions are better they realize they aren't getting in.

 

[SU68]

1. ACC Network

2. ND full-time in football and not getting picked for CFP after going 11-1 or 10-2. I was surprised to read that ND can join ACC only until 2027.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

#8 the return of ToT

 

[HtownOrange]

The P5 will never force the issue. The NCAA doesn't care and ND will never give up full independence. The ACC is getting a benefit that the Big East never did in that ND has to play its member schools every year.
Sadly Dr. Gross while we were in the Big East sold away our benefit for the most pat. I don't blame the ACC one iota. I wish our games were at home. This issue is dead and I won't say anymore on that.

I just wish we never played ND FB again. They have no respect for our program.

I don't disagree whether the P% will force the issue. My point is that the ACC receives benefits from playing ND in the 5 game/year arrangement. The Big East benefited more than most realize as ND had NO obligation to play any BE football teams. ND said they would try to schedule BE teams and began doing so, no contract and no problems. ND did ask Rutgers and UConn to schedule their home games in a neutral stadium but that was an opening negotiation not a hard an fast requirement. Both turned ND down flat. ND scheduled USF, Pitt and Syracuse in that same period.

I don't like ND, but I respect their stance, they have held it consistently since seeking admission to the B1G way back when (I think the 1920's) and they were turned down. If people would look closely at the ND scheduling philosophy, they are still relatively close to scheduling what they historically have wanted: when the BE and ACC were east coast factors, ND usually scheduled 3-5 games annually on the coast.

As to the BE, they got what they bargained for, ND as a non-football member.

I respectfully disagree regarding Syracuse and ND games. We should keep playing them and we should enjoy the national recognition. As for ND not respecting Syracuse, remember, GRob led Syracuse to a victory over ND, they know not to take Syracuse lightly.

 

[Pyle]

8. SU isn't picked to finish last in the Atlantic by every hack sports journalist in the country including that airbag Andrea Adelson and her crap azz coverage of the ACC!!!

 

[Alsacs]

I don't disagree whether the P% will force the issue. My point is that the ACC receives benefits from playing ND in the 5 game/year arrangement. The Big East benefited more than most realize as ND had NO obligation to play any BE football teams. ND said they would try to schedule BE teams and began doing so, no contract and no problems. ND did ask Rutgers and UConn to schedule their home games in a neutral stadium but that was an opening negotiation not a hard an fast requirement. Both turned ND down flat. ND scheduled USF, Pitt and Syracuse in that same period.

I don't like ND, but I respect their stance, they have held it consistently since seeking admission to the B1G way back when (I think the 1920's) and they were turned down. If people would look closely at the ND scheduling philosophy, they are still relatively close to scheduling what they historically have wanted: when the BE and ACC were east coast factors, ND usually scheduled 3-5 games annually on the coast.

As to the BE, they got what they bargained for, ND as a non-football member.

I respectfully disagree regarding Syracuse and ND games. We should keep playing them and we should enjoy the national recognition. As for ND not respecting Syracuse, remember, GRob led Syracuse to a victory over ND, they know not to take Syracuse lightly.

Factually incorrect. Syracuse and Notre Dame signed a contract in 2002. 2 for 1. 2003-@SU, 2005-@ND, 2008-@ND.
South Florida took a paycheck for a 1 game series at ND. Pitt got treated like an equal and played ND home/home.

They said they would try and help the BE teams but did they? No. I realize they had no obligation I said that. If the BE basketball teams and Commish wanted to put pressure on ND to actually help them they could have or forced ND out. THe BB teams didn't care because they thought ND was with them.

If SU never signs that 2009 deal with ND/Metlife then we would have been better off by the ACC/ND deal. Rutgers and UConn said no and we said yes. We did it for money. ND has no respect for SU FB. We are the only BCS team they have signed a 2 for 1 with. They wouldn't play us home/home. SU to ND is as CMU is to SU in the eyes of ND.

 

[Hoo's That]

8) The P5 tells the NCAA to go suck it and they break away and the NCAA folds.

The NCAA won't fold if that happens. The P5 would only leave for football, basketball, and baseball/softball. There is no interest in the other 4 conferences for putting together competitions in the other sports when they can have the NCAA do the heavy lifting for them. Basically, it comes down to this - if the SEC doesn't care about a particular sport, there won't be a competition for it in the P5. They're driving the bus and the rest of us are along for the ride. Will the NCAA have to scale things back because of the lost revenue from the CBS basketball contract's disappearing? You'd better believe it. (I would imagine MLax would go back to what it was pre-1971.) But they won't fold.

I know you folks have some "differences" with the NCAA. IMO it would only be 10,000% worse if the SEC is deciding what the "rules" are.

 

[HtownOrange]

Factually incorrect. Syracuse and Notre Dame signed a contract in 2002. 2 for 1. 2003-@SU, 2005-@ND, 2008-@ND.
South Florida took a paycheck for a 1 game series at ND. Pitt got treated like an equal and played ND home/home.

They said they would try and help the BE teams but did they? No. I realize they had no obligation I said that. If the BE basketball teams and Commish wanted to put pressure on ND to actually help them they could have or forced ND out. THe BB teams didn't care because they thought ND was with them.

If SU never signs that 2009 deal with ND/Metlife then we would have been better off by the ACC/ND deal. Rutgers and UConn said no and we said yes. We did it for money. ND has no respect for SU FB. We are the only BCS team they have signed a 2 for 1 with. They wouldn't play us home/home. SU to ND is as CMU is to SU in the eyes of ND.

Did ND play Syracuse, Pitt, USF and UConn (in South Bend)? Did Rutgers and UConn turn down ND? Factually correct. Check their opponents.

You can claim they did not help the BE, that is your opinion and the facts do NOT support your claim. ND had no legal obligation to play any BE football teams. Period. End of story. That they did play BE football tends to support the claim they did help the football schools.

You are probably correct in stating the BE hoops schools could have pressured ND more. They apparently didn't or at least didn't apply enough pressure, that is a different issue.

Going forward after the MetLife series, ND will be visiting the Dome. Not sure what your worry is, unless you have secret info that nobody else has. If the then Syracuse AD wants to keep playing in NYC, then that will be their decision, but my guess is that it will take a lot more money than ND is willing to share as Syracuse has a guaranteed home and home with ND as part of the ACC deal. As for 2009, life sucked in the BE, nobody disputes that fact. Syracuse nearly matched the BE TV deal with each game in NYC, at the time, a very good decision. Time to move on.

Besides, TGD is no longer running the AD, the marketing plans may shift and if we keep winning, playing every few years in the Pinstripe Bowl will suffice for NYC exposure.

 

[Alsacs]

Did ND play Syracuse, Pitt, USF and UConn (in South Bend)? Did Rutgers and UConn turn down ND? Factually correct. Check their opponents.

You can claim they did not help the BE, that is your opinion and the facts do NOT support your claim. ND had no legal obligation to play any BE football teams. Period. End of story. That they did play BE football tends to support the claim they did help the football schools.

You are probably correct in stating the BE hoops schools could have pressured ND more. They apparently didn't or at least didn't apply enough pressure, that is a different issue.

Going forward after the MetLife series, ND will be visiting the Dome. Not sure what your worry is, unless you have secret info that nobody else has. If the then Syracuse AD wants to keep playing in NYC, then that will be their decision, but my guess is that it will take a lot more money than ND is willing to share as Syracuse has a guaranteed home and home with ND as part of the ACC deal. As for 2009, life sucked in the BE, nobody disputes that fact. Syracuse nearly matched the BE TV deal with each game in NYC, at the time, a very good decision. Time to move on.

Besides, TGD is no longer running the AD, the marketing plans may shift and if we keep winning, playing every few years in the Pinstripe Bowl will suffice for NYC exposure.

I like you too much to want to debate this more after this post. From 2005-2012 ND has no obligation to play Big East teams they played only Pitt on the road.They did not help BE FB. They didn't give a crap about BE football they used the BE for its elite BB and a home for its Olympic sports. The fact ND lacrosse coach pushed for the BE lacrosse league and SU caved still pisses me off even though it got us into the tournament in 2011.

Hosting USF and UConn in paycheck games did them very little. Syracuse had to go to SB 2 times for ND to come to the Dome in 2003. They don't respect SU FB. They did not help FB schools if they played them home/home that is helping them. I don't get how you can say they helped the FB schools.

ND cares about ND plain and simple. We should force to them to play their home basketball games at MSG and never play another BB game in SB.

 

[Alsacs]

Just so you know Htown I have family who went to ND. My Uncle(godfather) and two of my cousins went to ND. They are like the prototypical ND alums. They want Independence forever and care more about it than winning a NC. They barely care about ND BB and admit they used the Big East conference.

ND fans don't even like the ACC 5 game commitment but atleast understand it because it gets them into the Southeast for recruiting to go along with their CA recruiting.

 

[TheCusian]

Just so you know Htown I have family who went to ND. My Uncle(godfather) and two of my cousins went to ND. They are like the prototypical ND alums. They want Independence forever and care more about it than winning a NC. They barely care about ND BB and admit they used the Big East conference. ND fans don't even like the ACC 5 game commitment but atleast understand it because it gets them into the Southeast for recruiting to go along with their CA recruiting.

I still can't believe that. What about independence makes it worth it?

Only reasonable answer is money. But what is money if it's not building to a championship?

Not directed at you - I know we went around on this recently. Just boggles my mind.

 

[Alsacs]

I still can't believe that. What about independence makes it worth it?

Only reasonable answer is money. But what is money if it's not building to a championship?

Not directed at you - I know we went around on this recently. Just boggles my mind.

I have no clue what happens at ND student orientation. If they go thru a programming or something? They care about FB independence like they are defending the Wall.

ND would make more money in a conference than as an independent especially in the Big Ten. The money argument doesn't make sense because when they considered in the Big Ten in 1998 or 1999 I forget which year I was a teenager and my Uncle insane along with other ND alums threatened to stop giving money and were crazy in protesting them considering joining the Big Ten. I remember being scared with how passionate he was about it. They ended up declining the Big Ten and the ND alums won. Their faculty wanted them to join the Big Ten at that time for the research money but the administration sided with alumni.

I never applied to ND because of this my final 3 were Syracuse(my mom's alma mater), Miami, Northwestern.

 

[longtimefan]

It was the latter. If the OBE BB schools wanted to helped the FB schools they could have given ND an ultimatum to play 3 BE FB schools or take your Olympic sports/BB elsewhere. Now the BB schools didn't care because they thought ND was with them in voting blocs. ND showed those BB schools though when the FB schism occurred that ND wasn't interesting being in a Catholic schools league. ND is about ND pure and simple. Unless you make them sign a contract they don't care about their non-Navy partners.

Once ND was in, the BB schools were never going to kick them out, because ND voted with the BB's. Without ND the FB's could out-vote the BB's 7-6 (later 8-7). If I remember correctly, the BB's agreed to add RU and WVa (for all sports) only if ND was allowed in--to maintain the FB-BB balance.

 

[longtimefan]

I really need to take a year off of work and write a book on college expansion. This book is a gold mine for whatever person spends the time and does it right.

There is definitely a book to be written. The logical one to do it would be Jake Crouthamel. He was right in the room when this all went down, from the mid-80's, to the early 00's.

But, he's old school. Those secrets will be buried with him.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Once ND was in, the BB schools were never going to kick them out, because ND voted with the BB's. Without ND the FB's could out-vote the BB's 7-6 (later 8-7). If I remember correctly, the BB's agreed to add RU and WVa (for all sports) only if ND was allowed in--to maintain the FB-BB balance.

You have the timeline backwards.

Rutgers and West Virginia were invited to join first as full members in March, 1994:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/10/s...re-invited-to-join-big-east.html?pagewanted=1

The BB schools approved the expansion because the 4 FB schools threatened to bolt.

At the time, it resulted in a perfect 6-6 split. Boston College, Miami, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, and West Virginia on the FB side, vs Connecticut, Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence and Villanova on the BB side. Temple and Va Tech were Associate Members for FB only and did not have voting rights.

Notre Dame came 4 months later:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/12/sports/colleges-notre-dame-joins-the-big-east.html