Which scenario happens first?

[Alsacs]

There is definitely a book to be written. The logical one to do it would be Jake Crouthamel. He was right in the room when this all went down, from the mid-80's, to the early 00's.

But, he's old school. Those secrets will be buried with him.

If I did the book I would do it all of college expansion from the Big XII, Big Ten, SEC, ACC, and Pac-12. The Big East portion of it is pretty well known on this board. Jake C would be among the best people to talk about on the Big East portion of it as he resigned because the BE went to 16 and he said he would if they did.

People I would have to interview: Mike Tranghese, Jake Crouthamel, Gene Defilippo, Donna Shalala. someone who worked for the late Paul Dee, someone who worked for the late Jim Weaver, Jim Delany, John Swofford, John Marinatto, Dan Weiberg, Dan Beebe, Deloss Dodds, Bob Bowlsby, Oliver Luck, Larry Scott, Mike Slive. I mean there are so many more which is why I would need to spend a year not working to do it right.

 

[TheCusian]

If I did the book I would do it all of college expansion from the Big XII, Big Ten, SEC, ACC, and Pac-12. The Big East portion of it is pretty well known on this board. Jake C would be among the best people to talk about on the Big East portion of it as he resigned because the BE went to 16 and he said he would if they did. People I would have to interview: Mike Tranghese, Jake Crouthamel, Gene Defilippo, Donna Shalala. someone who worked for the late Paul Dee, someone who worked for the late Jim Weaver, Jim Delany, John Swofford, John Marinatto, Dan Weiberg, Dan Beebe, Deloss Dodds, Bob Bowlsby, Oliver Luck, Larry Scott, Mike Slive. I mean there are so many more which is why I would need to spend a year not working to do it right.

Talking to Oliver Luck might make it not worth it.

 

[longtimefan]

You have the timeline backwards.

Rutgers and West Virginia were invited to join first as full members in March, 1994:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/10/s...re-invited-to-join-big-east.html?pagewanted=1

The BB schools approved the expansion because the 4 FB schools threatened to bolt.

At the time, it resulted in a perfect 6-6 split. Boston College, Miami, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse, and West Virginia on the FB side, vs Connecticut, Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence and Villanova on the BB side. Temple and Va Tech were Associate Members for FB only and did not have voting rights.

Notre Dame came 4 months later:

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/12/sports/colleges-notre-dame-joins-the-big-east.html

Good effort finding that stuff.

I was a bit twisted around about some of the details. But I do have a different interpretation of some of the facts. After WVa and Rutty were added, all of the leaders, esp. Tranghese and Harrington, said the BE was done with expansion. And a twelve-team. evenly-balanced (FB-BB) league looked like the perfect set up. Yet, four months later, here comes ND.

Why did this happen? Here's St John's (the deciding vote) position after the first expansion:

"St. John's did not support the proposal to expand to 14 because of the imbalance favoring football and the logistical problems a basketball league of that size would have created."

Which is half true: They (and the other BB's) didn't want an imbalance favoring the FB's. But they sure found no problems with the logistics of a 13 (!) team conference. And, the 3 newbies (WVa, RU and ND) all began playing BE hoops at the same time.

All of which leads me to believe that taking ND was part of a grand plan from the first meetings. I would bet that the FB's went along with the 13-team plan because Tranghese convinced them that he could get more out of ND football than the Irish were ever going to give. It might have been better for the FB's to split at that time, rather than inviting ND into the the volatile situation that was the Big East Conference.

As a PS to this whole thing--notice that ND had not been to the NCAA tournament since 1990, which means 4 years and counting when they were taken into the BE. They were headed towards irrelevance ala DePaul. The BE saved their hoops program. And, if the deal had not been struck and the FB's went their own way, what would have happened to UConn's still wobbly basketball program?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

It might have been better for the FB's to split at that time, rather than inviting ND into the the volatile situation that was the Big East Conference.

BC, Miami, Pitt, Rutgers, SU, Temple, Va Tech, and WV.

Basketball would have been weak, and we wouldn't have had MSG for our tournament.

We would have been the American Conference.

Maybe we grab Cincinnati and Louisville in the short term.

Could Miami have convinced FSU and Ga Tech to join?

Or do we just hold on until everyone else expands?

 

[Alsacs]

BC, Miami, Pitt, Rutgers, SU, Temple, Va Tech, and WV.

Basketball would have been weak, and we wouldn't have had MSG for our tournament.

We would have been the American Conference.

Maybe we grab Cincinnati and Louisville in the short term.

Could Miami have convinced FSU and Ga Tech to join?

Or do we just hold on until everyone else expands?

If this happened I think FSU would have been open as the ACC was a 9 team conference and the BE 8 football schools would have been a better a FB conference at that time. Ga. Tech prolly wouldn't have left the ACC.
However with those 8 they go after Louisville, Cincinnati, Florida State, and drum roll Penn State.
A 12 team league consisting of
BC, Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple, Virginia Tech, West Virginia and Louisville, Cincinnati, Florida State, Penn State would have combined the old Metro conference with the Eastern Independents.
Basketball would have been led by Syracuse, Louisville, Temple.
Football would have been led by Penn State, Florida State, Miami.

Divisions: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple, Penn State, Rutgers
Miami, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, Florida State
Easy season ending rivalries: BC-SU, Pitt-Penn State, Rutgers-Temple, Miami-Florida State, VPI-WVU, Louisville-Cincinnati.

Too bad the Big East didn't split before the ACC smartly gutted the conference up.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If this happened I think FSU would have been open as the ACC was a 9 team conference and the BE 8 football schools would have been a better a FB conference at that time. Ga. Tech prolly wouldn't have left the ACC.
However with those 8 they go after Louisville, Cincinnati, Florida State, and drum roll Penn State.
A 12 team league consisting of
BC, Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, Rutgers, Temple, Virginia Tech, West Virginia and Louisville, Cincinnati, Florida State, Penn State would have combined the old Metro conference with the Eastern Independents.
Basketball would have been led by Syracuse, Louisville, Temple.
Football would have been led by Penn State, Florida State, Miami.

Divisions: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Temple, Penn State, Rutgers
Miami, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Louisville, Cincinnati, Florida State
Easy season ending rivalries: BC-SU, Pitt-Penn State, Rutgers-Temple, Miami-Florida State, VPI-WVU, Louisville-Cincinnati.

Too bad the Big East didn't split before the ACC smartly gutted the conference up.

It could have been Paterno's dream conference, but I think the B1G money was too good to walk away from.

Sub Memphis for PSU (Memphis had decent hoops in the 90's), and move WV to the North Division.