While we could always use more talent our OL is the major problem.

[Pyle]

I never claimed you cannot have a functional OL. That is wrong.

You absolutely said that and I quote "Dino’s recruits are RS Soph, RS Frost, or true Frosh. They are too young to form a functional OL"

My counting of years in the program is wrong? You may need more coffee

A RS-So is a 3rd year player
A RS-Frosh is a 2nd year player
A True Frosh is a 1st year player

A True Junior is a 3rd year player
A True Soph is a 2nd year player

Where exactly is my counting wrong?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Lot of interesting takes here. Ups and downs happen but for a team coming off a 10 win season, with a coach in year 4, I have a hard time thinking that having the worst offensive line in p5 football is just part of the natural “down” that comes with sports. It’s far beyond that.

 

[TheCusian]

You should be functional after 4 years of coaching/recruiting. Maybe not great or even very good, but functional. Can't believe you gonna argue that.

My point was that we were last year. And I said we sucked this year - and gave reasons as to why. For some reason you see explanation as excuse.

I’ve called for Cav to be fired. I think the OL coaching is not great. I hold Dino responsible for that.

I think you’re being delusional if you think every HC who has been at a school for 4 years *always* has a functional OL.

 

[Ozcuse]

So you expect an OL made up of freshman and sophomores to be good? The OL needs upperclassmen. Dino’s OL recruits aren’t there yet.

Your argument would have made more sense in years 1,2 and 3 of the rebuild. In year 4 Dino has recruits that will be graduating in May.

I like Dino as a coach but we don't need to be irrationally defensive about this.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Your argument would have made more sense in years 1,2 and 3 of the rebuild. In year 4 Dino has recruits that will be graduating in May.

I like Dino as a coach but we don't need to be irrationally defensive about this.

The OL should be better. The reason why we are not Top 100 is on the coaching. The reason why we are not Top 75 is our youth. Do you expect the scraps in year 1 recruiting cycle to be good OLmen? Year 2 kids are either RS Soph or true JRs. Year 3 and 4 kids are too young. We are talking OL here not skill position where it is easier to get on the field your first few years.

 

[Pyle]

For some reason you see explanation as excuse.

This is absolutely positively 100% correct on your part. Dino had 3 years to see the falloff from last year to this year was coming and did not prevent it so it's not an oh well explanation, it's just an excuse.

 

[TheCusian]

This is absolutely positively 100% correct on your part. Dino had 3 years to see the falloff from last year to this year was coming and did not prevent it so it's not an oh well explanation, it's just an excuse.

Wrong. The purpose of calling something an excuse is if you think there isn't accountability. I'd bet a lot that Dino will make changes in the offseason at that coaching position. He's clearly taking his lumps as a HC and his star has lost some shine due to this very issue. So, accountability is there.

Unless you think Dino should be fired, which is nuts.

 

[Pyle]

Wrong. The purpose of calling something an excuse is if you think there isn't accountability. I'd bet a lot that Dino will make changes in the offseason at that coaching position. He's clearly taking his lumps as a HC and his star has lost some shine due to this very issue. So, accountability is there.

Unless you think Dino should be fired, which is nuts.

No I don't think Dino should be fired. But taking his lumps? This is his 3rd HC gig and 8th year overall as the main dude. Lumps? Now that good sir...is an excuse.

You want to know the driving force behind my posts? I'm tired of the excuses in this forum. Do I hope to god that Dino overhauls the offensive staff? Yes. Do I have any real reason to think he will? No. Why? Because our defense was gawd awful for the first two years he was here and he kept Ward. Dino is loyal to his staff.

The other reason is I'm tired of the posters who think this is simply an age issue. It's not. When Dino got here he talked about recruiting a different type of lineman. Taller, quicker, and less beef in the belly. He wants lineman with agility that can slide all over the field. I don't know if that's why these guys are having the issues they are or not but this is the first time he's not using someone else's lineman and the results so far are awful.

 

[Millhouse]

The reason why we are not Top 100 is on the coaching. The reason why we are not Top 75 is our youth.

that seems fair to me.

 

[TheCusian]

No I don't think Dino should be fired. But taking his lumps? This is his 3rd HC gig and 8th year overall as the main dude. Lumps? Now that good sir...is an excuse.

I'm confused. You think he's enjoying having a crappy OL and being called on it by the media and fans over and over again? That's what "taking his lumps" means. He's not immune to criticism and has acknowledged that the OL is in rough shape.

 

[Pyle]

I'm confused. You think he's enjoying having a crappy OL and being called on it by the media and fans over and over again? That's what "taking his lumps" means. He's not immune to criticism and has acknowledged that the OL is in rough shape.

If that's what you meant by it fine, I took it to mean he's learning on the job, I will admit I took that incorrectly.

 

[TheCusian]

If that's what you meant by it fine, I took it to mean he's learning on the job, I will admit I took that incorrectly.

no worries - I could see how it could be read that way.

 

[sufandu]

DeLeone was always an excellent offensive line coach.
He and Paul couldn't call plays to save their lives, but he was great on the practice field. It's no accident that even when we were not that good, we still produced 1,000 yard rushers year after year after year.

Although I agree with your opinion that D was always an excellent oline coach, the comment about 1,000 yard rushers is a little inaccurate. Most of the years that was on our staff we did not have a 1,000 yard rusher. Our first 1,000 yard rusher with him as a coach was Owens in '89. Our next 1,000 yard rusher wasn't until Dee Brown in 2000 which started a nice little run through 2003.

 

[RoatanCuse]

We could always use an upgrade at WR, TE, RB, QB or another stud DE, LB, DB those positions are fine.

The OL can’t get any push and is blowing up a play or two every single drive.

Dino needs to change the OL coach and upgrade this position. If we just become average again at OL we have the talent and schedules to win 7-8 games a year.
This OL without doubt is the worst in FBS college football.
I counted FIVE procedural penalties AT HOME last night. That is inexcusable at home without crowd noise. They ruined possessions. Can’t any of the RBs help with pass blocking blitzes?

We need help on OL.

What are we averaging...5 false starts per game? Either lousy coaching or low IQ players.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Although I agree with your opinion that D was always an excellent oline coach, the comment about 1,000 yard rushers is a little inaccurate. Most of the years that was on our staff we did not have a 1,000 yard rusher. Our first 1,000 yard rusher with him as a coach was Owens in '89. Our next 1,000 yard rusher wasn't until Dee Brown in 2000 which started a nice little run through 2003.

Your facts have no place here!

 

[Scooch]

The OL should be better. The reason why we are not Top 100 is on the coaching. The reason why we are not Top 75 is our youth. Do you expect the scraps in year 1 recruiting cycle to be good OLmen? Year 2 kids are either RS Soph or true JRs. Year 3 and 4 kids are too young. We are talking OL here not skill position where it is easier to get on the field your first few years.

that seems fair to me.

Ehhhh... top 75 can still mean being among the worst in P5. I don't think that's attributable to "youth", apart from coaching. At least that's how I'm interpreting your comment, maybe I'm wrong.

I can't think of a coach who doesn't blather on incessantly about how his team's fortunes hinge on OL play. It's on page 1 in The Great Book of Cliche Things Head Coaches Say. Thus, it's unfathomable to me how atrocious our OL has been. SU has had "young" OLs before but never one so utterly incapable of doing anything well... aside from racking up false start penalties.

Houses need to be cleaned and grad portals need to be scoured this offseason.

 

[Millhouse]

Ehhhh... top 75 can still mean being among the worst in P5. I don't think that's attributable to "youth", apart from coaching. At least that's how I'm interpreting your comment, maybe I'm wrong.

I can't think of a coach who doesn't blather on incessantly about how his team's fortunes hinge on OL play. It's on page 1 in The Great Book of Cliche Things Head Coaches Say. Thus, it's unfathomable to me how atrocious our OL has been. SU has had "young" OLs before but never one so utterly incapable of doing anything well... aside from racking up false start penalties.

Houses need to be cleaned and grad portals need to be scoured this offseason.

nah, there are always a lot of name teams below 75. when it comes to any of these stats, there isn't that huge a difference between 40 and 80 the line is flat in the middle, bends up to the ceiling at top and bends way down at the bottom, like some sideways curve, if that makes any sense.

the stuff we don't need to be great at, i don't worry as long as it's not really bad

we just need to be not terrible at most things and we'll do well because the system is so easy for a passer

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Ehhhh... top 75 can still mean being among the worst in P5. I don't think that's attributable to "youth", apart from coaching. At least that's how I'm interpreting your comment, maybe I'm wrong.

I can't think of a coach who doesn't blather on incessantly about how his team's fortunes hinge on OL play. It's on page 1 in The Great Book of Cliche Things Head Coaches Say. Thus, it's unfathomable to me how atrocious our OL has been. SU has had "young" OLs before but never one so utterly incapable of doing anything well... aside from racking up false start penalties.

Houses need to be cleaned and grad portals need to be scoured this offseason.

Well the rest is talent. Maybe I should have had:

We are bottom 25% (98-130) instead of 50-75% (65-97) because of coaching

With good coaching we are in the 50-75% (65-97) instead of the 25-50% (33-65) because of youth

With good coaching and experience we are in the 25-50% (33-65) instead of the top 25% (1-32) because of talent

 

[SmilinBob]

This group is way too weak to have a run up the middle thus it's 2nd and 9 or 10. If they could get 2nd and 5 there's a RPO option but the 2nd and long is killing them thus why they opened throwing the ball on Friday night to have the pass set up the run. If Johnson breaks a simple tackle it's 6 and this changes the complexion of the game.

The OLine is sub par no doubt and has absolutely no push to go along with not being able to pass block which is one bad combination. My simple fix is get the big fat/stronger guys on OL and have them run the ball, at least there may be a push. And get somebody else at center and move Servais

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Ehhhh... top 75 can still mean being among the worst in P5. I don't think that's attributable to "youth", apart from coaching. At least that's how I'm interpreting your comment, maybe I'm wrong.

I can't think of a coach who doesn't blather on incessantly about how his team's fortunes hinge on OL play. It's on page 1 in The Great Book of Cliche Things Head Coaches Say. Thus, it's unfathomable to me how atrocious our OL has been. SU has had "young" OLs before but never one so utterly incapable of doing anything well... aside from racking up false start penalties.

Houses need to be cleaned and grad portals need to be scoured this offseason.

I mean, I think it's pretty clear what's happened.

The staff whiffed on recruiting OL. Dudes aren't ready.

They know that. There's not much to be done about it in the moment. I suspect they didn't realize at the time that they whiffed on the guys they brought in, so it's not like it's super easy to say what they should have done differently.

It sucks. It happened.

 

[Scooch]

I mean, I think it's pretty clear what's happened.

The staff whiffed on recruiting OL. Dudes aren't ready.

They know that. There's not much to be done about it in the moment. I suspect they didn't realize at the time that they whiffed on the guys they brought in, so it's not like it's super easy to say what they should have done differently.

It sucks. It happened.

Sure, but I don’t believe that it’s *just* that. This OL is epically inept. That goes beyond recruiting misses (four years of misses?). I don’t like to see people lose their jobs, but anyone involved in the OL this year probably needs to go. It’s that bad.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sure, but I don’t believe that it’s *just* that. This OL is epically inept. That goes beyond recruiting misses (four years of misses?). I don’t like to see people lose their jobs, but anyone involved in the OL this year probably needs to go. It’s that bad.

I don't disagree. The amount of confusion is staggering. It's not all talent.

Confused guys still make great plays sometimes if they're talented. I'm not sure we're seeing that happening.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

Unless we're recruiting sure fire,can't miss prospects ,I don't get why we're only signing 2 per cycle.You have to hit on just about all of them and that doesn't appear to be the case. It's hard to say for sure since they don't look like they've been coached up at all.

 

[RandomGuy]

Unless we're recruiting sure fire,can't miss prospects ,I don't get why we're only signing 2 per cycle.You have to hit on just about all of them and that doesn't appear to be the case. It's hard to say for sure since they don't look like they've been coached up at all.

2016 4 Servais, Heckle, medical dq
2017 2 Dakota, P.Davis(meaningful snaps with a series when Alexander hurt his knee)
2018 4 Martin, Vett
2019 4 Alexander

Last cycle included a Canadien (2 more years developement), JUCO (2 more years), GT. Attempt to bolster the 2017 class?

 

[CuseOnly]

Worst offensive line in P5 football. You can sing your excuses all day. We shouldn't be here at this stage.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

This isnt the NFL where you can keep a great offensive lineman for 13 years with a contract. Every year kids come and go and when you have to replace 4 of 5, my friend you are in trouble.

And when coaches state in recruiting that aside from the 5 star guys that everyone wants, the whole recruiting game is a crapshoot. They are 100% telling the truth.

Guess what, we don't have those 5 star guys, shocker I know.

We have decent talent there but at the moment, they are young for sure, all 4 of those new guys are inexperienced at this level at the hardest position to learn as well as some playing out of position. They simply are not ready.

We are taking it on the chin this year while they get some experience in games.

Oh yeah, and Marrone was playing Big Least level teams, not the ACC.

Get a clue.