While we could always use more talent our OL is the major problem.

[kcsu]

its really hard to tell if its talent/strength/or mental oline issues.. a bit of each on every play.

sometimes they get beat, sometimes they block the wrong guy, sometimes they just get run over..

some of it is handwork, some of it is footwork,

but when you dont really have one guy you really can run behind its a bit of a guess what will work play to play.

the fact that we are just not willing to move our best tackle out to tackle means we really dont trust any other center at all or maybe our best tackle isnt what many think he is..

Its coaching. Give George or Doug these guys and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Ozone!]

There are copious examples of coaches who have had less OL talent and managed to make due. If you have a weak aspect of your team; you must use schemes that allow success. The problem with our offense is multidimensional; an OL that can't block and offensive play-calling that pretends we can!

You are correct, I shouldn't have used the word copious! Just very frustrated by our lack of growth in our OL!

 

[Pyle]

earth to Oz...it doesn't matter what you call when you don't block...

And unless there are 5 guys standing on the sideline who can both make to the snap without moving and then block the guy in front of them once the ball is snapped, there is going to just be more of the same for the rest of the season

Again, read some of the other posts...posters wanting wholesale coaching changes, getting rid of the entire staff; it's the play calling; it's the QB;

I mean, I also get that if you attach poster names to some of those posts, it's the usual set of clueless trolls but, still, there are other posters "liking" those posts...

Those posters clearly not recognizing, or just paying lip service to, the impact of the O line problems...

Fix the OL and all is well! Why does the OL need so much fixing in year 4. Some of these guys are 4 years into Dino's 'system' and this is the end result? If your guys are jumping offsides then make then run hill sprints until they vomit and then run then some more, then you know what? Run them some more. Not working? Put in someone else and let their arses get their head in the game on the sideline. How about RECRUIT better OL? Dino and his staff picked these players, developed these players, etc. So either their recruiting or development methods are failing miserably. You can blame the 5 guys in the huddle, but I blame the staff that put those 5 guys on the field. Was Marrone still using excuses about Grob in year 4? I don't think so. This is Dino's line and he and his staff need to be held accountable for such an atrocity.

 

[Alsacs]

Fix the OL and all is well! Why does the OL need so much fixing in year 4. Some of these guys are 4 years into Dino's 'system' and this is the end result? If your guys are jumping offsides then make then run hill sprints until they vomit and then run then some more, then you know what? Run them some more. Not working? Put in someone else and let their arses get their head in the game on the sideline. How about RECRUIT better OL? Dino and his staff picked these players, developed these players, etc. So either their recruiting or development methods are failing miserably. You can blame the 5 guys in the huddle, but I blame the staff that put those 5 guys on the field. Was Marrone still using excuses about Grob in year 4? I don't think so. This is Dino's line and he and his staff need to be held accountable for such an atrocity.

We have recruited good OL prospects Davis and Qadir White.
One is a true freshman RS and the other is a Sophomore. Problem Right now is we have a problem at C and each tackle.

We are middle of the road OL from being a 7-5/8-4 team.
Dino has elevated the secondary which Scott Shafer left in shambles.
Has upgraded the DL.

Our best NFL prospects Alton Robison and Andre Cisco are Dino recruits.

Louisville was hot garbage last year. They fixed their issues and look solid this year.
We will be fine with this HC.
He took over a dumpster fire from Scott Shafer. This year is bad but our HC is an actual HC.

I get it’s tough being a Syracuse and Lions football fan but you have 2 HCs are who better than you think they are.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Fix the OL and all is well! Why does the OL need so much fixing in year 4. Some of these guys are 4 years into Dino's 'system' and this is the end result? If your guys are jumping offsides then make then run hill sprints until they vomit and then run then some more, then you know what? Run them some more. Not working? Put in someone else and let their arses get their head in the game on the sideline. How about RECRUIT better OL? Dino and his staff picked these players, developed these players, etc. So either their recruiting or development methods are failing miserably. You can blame the 5 guys in the huddle, but I blame the staff that put those 5 guys on the field. Was Marrone still using excuses about Grob in year 4? I don't think so. This is Dino's line and he and his staff need to be held accountable for such an atrocity.

Well, it's only year 2 for the O Line coach, if I recall correctly.

 

[Trueblue25]

And then people wonder why HCDB demeanor has changed.

We’re in the red zone with 3rd and 2, call an awesome play on an inside handoff to the TE - who had an easy first down and maybe more - but a false start pushes it back to 3rd and 7. Then a sack bc now we have to pass. Then miss a FG.

And people wonder. Smh

If that’s truly the case for his change in demeanor, then Cav should be out the door.

 

[Pyle]

We have recruited good OL prospects Davis and Qadir White.
One is a true freshman RS and the other is a Sophomore. Problem Right now is we have a problem at C and each tackle.

We are middle of the road OL from being a 7-5/8-4 team.
Dino has elevated the secondary which Scott Shafer left in shambles.
Has upgraded the DL.

Our best NFL prospects Alton Robison and Andre Cisco are Dino recruits.

Louisville was hot garbage last year. They fixed their issues and look solid this year.
We will be fine with this HC.
He took over a dumpster fire from Scott Shafer. This year is bad but our HC is an actual HC.

I get it’s tough being a Syracuse and Lions football fan but you have 2 HCs are who better than you think they are.

I appreciate your perspective. I like Dino as a head coach. I don't like that some people around here think he is infallible due to last year which was a 1/2 Shafer recruited team. As much as I like him, I have major concerns. Shafer gave us Custis/Ish and Dino brought in AET because he knew he needed that type of stretch the field receiver. Why is it in year 4 we don't have a big imposing WR? My son is 15, he doesn't make alot of games in person anymore due to his brutal marching band schedule but he was at the game Fri. He turned to me during the first quarter and said 'Why are all of our WRs 5'8'?'. It was an exagerration but not much. Even he sees that we are smaller than we were last year and the years before. I feel like we have a recruiting issue, and that isn't easy to gloss over.

 

[orangecuse]

You are correct, I shouldn't have used the word copious! Just very frustrated by our lack of growth in our OL!

No, you shouldn't have, I had to do a google search of the word's meaning. Abundant would've sufficed just fine.

 

[Millhouse]

View attachment 171710

i just laughed at the wordless blank expression

 

[Millhouse]

You guys mean dressing down, right? Or do you ...

View attachment 171727

bravo. the lovitz wedding singer gif would've been my move but your's is better

 

[Chip]

Certainly the worst since this card magician was the OLine coach

That baby wants out.

 

[Millhouse]

That baby wants out.

he looks like the philly fanatic thrusting his gut

 

[RandomGuy]

I appreciate your perspective. I like Dino as a head coach. I don't like that some people around here think he is infallible due to last year which was a 1/2 Shafer recruited team. As much as I like him, I have major concerns. Shafer gave us Custis/Ish and Dino brought in AET because he knew he needed that type of stretch the field receiver. Why is it in year 4 we don't have a big imposing WR? My son is 15, he doesn't make alot of games in person anymore due to his brutal marching band schedule but he was at the game Fri. He turned to me during the first quarter and said 'Why are all of our WRs 5'8'?'. It was an exagerration but not much. Even he sees that we are smaller than we were last year and the years before. I feel like we have a recruiting issue, and that isn't easy to gloss over.

Gabe Horan 6'6 DQ
Ed Hendrix 6'3 injured
Luke Benson 6'4 true frosh
Anthony Queeley 6'2 RFr
Aaron Hackett 6'3
Cam Jordan 6'3
Taj Harris 6'2
RTB 6'1

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Fix the OL and all is well!

Yup. Pretty much. Every other unit seems to be ok to me. If we even had last year's line, we probably go anywhere from 7-5 to 9-3.

Why does the OL need so much fixing in year 4.

I don't know. Wish I did. Clearly nobody saw this coming.

Some of these guys are 4 years into Dino's 'system' and this is the end result?

Yup.

If your guys are jumping offsides then make then run hill sprints until they vomit and then run then some more, then you know what? Run them some more.

Alrighty, then. Good idea. How about we not let them hydrate either until they learn how to block and not false start? Memo to you: Bear Bryant just called from 1954 and wants you to stop poaching his training methods...

Not working? Put in someone else and let their arses get their head in the game on the sideline.

Although Dino see how the backups perform in practice and we don't, I would say go ahead and do this, but not until we are no longer bowl eligible.

How about RECRUIT better OL?

Now there's a thought. Dino et al probably haven't thought of that. Maybe email Dino and let him know. You should also probably let him know that the star system is not like golf. 1 star is not better than 5 star. He may not know that.

Dino and his staff picked these players, developed these players, etc. So either their recruiting or development methods are failing miserably. You can blame the 5 guys in the huddle, but I blame the staff that put those 5 guys on the field. Was Marrone still using excuses about Grob in year 4? I don't think so. This is Dino's line and he and his staff need to be held accountable for such an atrocity.

Although most of what I said above is tongue-in-cheek, it is certainly reasonable to hold Dino and the staff accountable for the line's miserable performance. Whether they missed in recruiting, underestimated how good this group would be, are not training them up etc., at the end of the day, the Oline's failure does fall on the coaching staff, regardless of the reason.

I think the silver lining here is that the other units of the team are certainly at a level where we can expect to be a bowl-eligible team, so if you can fix the Oline for next season, then we can get back to that level...

 

[Pyle]

Yup. Pretty much. Every other unit seems to be ok to me. If we even had last year's line, we probably go anywhere from 7-5 to 9-3.



I don't know. Wish I did. Clearly nobody saw this coming.




Yup.


Alrighty, then. Good idea. How about we not let them hydrate either until they learn how to block and not false start? Memo to you: Bear Bryant just called from 1954 and wants you to stop poaching his training methods...



Although Dino see how the backups perform in practice and we don't, I would say go ahead and do this, but not until we are no longer bowl eligible.




Now there's a thought. Dino et al probably haven't thought of that. Maybe email Dino and let him know. You should also probably let him know that the star system is not like golf. 1 star is not better than 5 star. He may not know that.




Although most of what I said above is tongue-in-cheek, it is certainly reasonable to hold Dino and the staff accountable for the line's miserable performance. Whether they missed in recruiting, underestimated how good this group would be, are not training them up etc., at the end of the day, the Oline's failure does fall on the coaching staff, regardless of the reason.

I think the silver lining here is that the other units of the team are certainly at a level where we can expect to be a bowl-eligible team, so if you can fix the Oline for next season, then we can get back to that level...

And I don't think fixing the OL before next season is as simple as you state. Hence the majority of my other questions. There will be no EASY button this offseason. The recruiting/development isn't there. You can tongue in cheek my posts all you want but the reality is I KNOW I SHOULDNT have to be stating or asking these things....so WHY AM I?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

And I don't think fixing the OL before next season is as simple as you state.

You need to re-read my post. I never said it would be easy. I never said it would be hard. I said IF you can fix it in the offseason.
I honestly don't know the answer. Will another off-season of S&C and spring and fall camps make the non-senior starters a P5 quality line? How much will getting Heckel back help? Will any of the backups improve enough to start? Will we get some viable options either via recruiting or via the transfer portal? No idea to any of it.

I don't even know what the fundamental problem is at this point. Poor recruiting? Having to play guys before they are ready? Lack of development?

So far, Dino told us that the performance in weeks 4-6 wold tell us where we are at.

Well, we've seen weeks 4-7 and now he needs to answer the questions as to why the performance of this oline is as bad as we've seen on the hill.

 

[TheCusian]

I appreciate your perspective. I like Dino as a head coach. I don't like that some people around here think he is infallible due to last year which was a 1/2 Shafer recruited team. As much as I like him, I have major concerns. Shafer gave us Custis/Ish and Dino brought in AET because he knew he needed that type of stretch the field receiver. Why is it in year 4 we don't have a big imposing WR? My son is 15, he doesn't make alot of games in person anymore due to his brutal marching band schedule but he was at the game Fri. He turned to me during the first quarter and said 'Why are all of our WRs 5'8'?'. It was an exagerration but not much. Even he sees that we are smaller than we were last year and the years before. I feel like we have a recruiting issue, and that isn't easy to gloss over.

1/2 of the seniors were Shafer guys - that's it.

 

[PhatOrange]

Ryan Alexander	OL	6-3	307​	R-Sr.
Andrejas Duerig	OL	6-3	326​	R-Sr.	Shafer	(O) None reported
Evan Adams	OL	6-6	352​	R-Sr.	Shafer	(O) Temple
Patrick Davis	OL	6-5	317​	Jr.		(O) None reported
Airon Servais	OL	6-6	273​	R-Jr.		(O) MAC
Sam Heckel	OL	6-4	280​	R-Jr.		(O) Illinois, Iowa State, Northwestern, MAC
Mike Clark	OL	6-8	318​	R-Jr.		(O) Maryland, Rutgers, South Carolina, Wake Forest, West Virginia
Liam O'Sullivan	OL	6-7	270​			Medical Disqualified
Darius Tisdale	OL	6-4	295​	R-So.		(O) Arkansas, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia
Dakota Davis	OL	6-5	327​	R-So.		(O) MAC, D1AA
Carlos Vettorello	OL	6-4	289​	R-Fr.		(O) Boston College, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Iowa St, Kentucky, Minnesota, Oregon St, Pittsburgh, Purdue
Wil Froumy	OL	6-6	314​	R-Fr.		(O) None reported
Qadir White	OL	6-7	336​	R-Fr.		(O) Auburn, Boston College, Georgia, Iowa St, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, NC State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, UCLA
Anthony Red	OL	6-5	281​	Fr.		(O) None Reported
Matthew Bergeron	OL	6-4	311​	Fr.		(O) None Reported
Garth Barclay	OL	6-7	250​	COMMITTED		(O) UVA, Temple, MAC
Josh llaoa	OL	6-3	280​	COMMITTED		(O) Illinois, MAC

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Ryan Alexander	OL	6-3	307​	R-Sr.
Andrejas Duerig	OL	6-3	326​	R-Sr.	Shafer	(O) None reported
Evan Adams	OL	6-6	352​	R-Sr.	Shafer	(O) Temple
Patrick Davis	OL	6-5	317​	Jr.		(O) None reported
Airon Servais	OL	6-6	273​	R-Jr.		(O) MAC
Sam Heckel	OL	6-4	280​	R-Jr.		(O) Illinois, Iowa State, Northwestern, MAC
Mike Clark	OL	6-8	318​	R-Jr.		(O) Maryland, Rutgers, South Carolina, Wake Forest, West Virginia
Liam O'Sullivan	OL	6-7	270​			Medical Disqualified
Darius Tisdale	OL	6-4	295​	R-So.		(O) Arkansas, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia
Dakota Davis	OL	6-5	327​	R-So.		(O) MAC, D1AA
Carlos Vettorello	OL	6-4	289​	R-Fr.		(O) Boston College, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Iowa St, Kentucky, Minnesota, Oregon St, Pittsburgh, Purdue
Wil Froumy	OL	6-6	314​	R-Fr.		(O) None reported
Qadir White	OL	6-7	336​	R-Fr.		(O) Auburn, Boston College, Georgia, Iowa St, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, NC State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, UCLA
Anthony Red	OL	6-5	281​	Fr.		(O) None Reported
Matthew Bergeron	OL	6-4	311​	Fr.		(O) None Reported
Garth Barclay	OL	6-7	250​	COMMITTED		(O) UVA, Temple, MAC
Josh llaoa	OL	6-3	280​	COMMITTED		(O) Illinois, MAC

Oof...explains a lot.

 

[P Vasiloff]

Oof...explains a lot.

The two young men from Canada, Pat Davis and Matthew Bergeron in all fairness to them many of the US rating systems don't rate Canadian players. Those two still have a chance to make a positive impact.

 

[Ozone!]

No, you shouldn't have, I had to do a google search of the word's meaning. Abundant would've sufficed just fine.

 

[cusefan88]

Tell George to come home as an consultant.

 

[blizz]

It takes a long time to develop O-line and you are only as good as your weakest link. Look no further than Jamar McGloster, huge kid had all the physical tools by every account, lingered on the roster for four years before contributing as a RSr. Even the 5-star can't miss type prospects often don't see meaningful time until they are Jr's or Sr's eligibility-wise. We're starting a RSo and RFr who are both not ready. Add to that a converted and underweight tackle, a grad transfer playing way above his pedigree, and a washed up O-line coach just padding out his 401(k) and you have a full blown disaster.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It takes a long time to develop O-line and you are only as good as your weakest link. ... We're starting a RSo and RFr who are both not ready. Add to that a converted and underweight tackle, a grad transfer playing way above his pedigree, and a washed up O-line coach just padding out his 401(k) and you have a full blown disaster.

With respect to Cavanaugh's coaching, I kind of hate seeing him dragged like this.

The guy has a 20 year background, and our O line was definitely better in 2018 than it had been in the 2 preceding seasons under Dino, even if Dungy's running bailed us out on many occasions.

That said, I find it kind of shocking that we are still this bad this far into the season. So maybe there's something to that. We lack toughness, and there seems to be too much confusion over the basics.

I lay a lot of this on Servais, personally. If you can't protect up the gut (and if you can't move people out of the way in the middle) you're not going to be very good. It's more than half the season, and I feel like he still doesn't know who to block when the opponent blitzes up one of the inside gaps.

 

[Millhouse]

With respect to Cavanaugh's coaching, I kind of hate seeing him dragged like this.

The guy has a 20 year background, and our O line was definitely better in 2018 than it had been in the 2 preceding seasons under Dino, even if Dungy's running bailed us out on many occasions.

That said, I find it kind of shocking that we are still this bad this far into the season. So maybe there's something to that. We lack toughness, and there seems to be too much confusion over the basics.

I lay a lot of this on Servais, personally. If you can't protect up the gut (and if you can't move people out of the way in the middle) you're not going to be very good. It's more than half the season, and I feel like he still doesn't know who to block when the opponent blitzes up one of the inside gaps.

he was a san diego assistant when deleone was their offensive line coach back in 97.

so once again, we can pin this shirtshow on D