Who still hates the Zone?

[SUintheVille]

Duke shot 37 3-pt shots. Wow!

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We are a Top 16 program we shouldn't have to win with a gimmick. The Zone in the current environment of college basketball makes the first team to 60 win. The pace of play makes it hard to watch. Until the game changes, I rather see the Zone go away.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That's exactly how I feel. Lots of luck combined with vastly improved defensive rebounding. It seemed like they still had whatever shot they wanted on the perimeter - all game long - and I thought for sure they would start heating up. Let's face it - we caught them on an off night when they were starting to feel the pressure of recent losses. They are a good shooting team and we let them have plenty of catch-and-shoot opportunities. Had they shot closer to their average they would've covered the spread. The OP is just click bait material.

You don't think we had anything to do with their horrible percentage?

 

[Cowtown]

 

[Madbiker]

The zone is clearly better when JB coaches it and makes adjustments to it during games. It's more complicated than most realize.

 

[Cowtown]

You don't think we had anything to do with their horrible percentage?

That's the critical point here. The defense played very well tonight, especially out at the perimeter. They hustled hard all night, going only 6 1/2 deep.

 

[FrancoPizza]

You don't think we had anything to do with their horrible percentage?

I'm just going by what I see. I saw plenty of dukies catch and shoot in rhythm without much if any contest. Just because we won doesn't mean the flaws in our defense magically go away.

 

[Spock344]

No offense, but the 2-3 zone didn't win the game for us. Tyler Roberson carried the team to victory. Barring his near-heroic rebounding effort on the offensive end, and his kick-outs for 2nd chance 3's, we aren't remotely in a position to win.

Great win on paper, nonetheless. However, we did everything give the game away at the end. Duke had an off-night, shooting-wise. Period. The Kennard kid dropped 30 pts last game and went 0-9 tonight w/ a goose-egg on wide-open look after wide-open look. Duke came in shooting over 39% from 3, and only shot 27%. The only thing that the zone played a factor in was giving Duke countless open looks from 3 the entire game. The zone didn't make Duke shoot any deep shots, nor induce strongly contested, tough 3's. The zone didn't force hardly any turnovers, nor create transition from it.

I'll say it again... Duke missed WIDE open looks, that they normally make in any other game... We caught a high-scoring offensive team on a bad night, and suddenly our fan base thinks the zone was a mystifying defense that Duke couldnt crack. But they had no inside presence coming into the game w/ Jefferson out! If Duke's open looks went in ala our St. John's or Clemson debacles, you guys would be singing a different tune. The truth is Duke shifted our zone outta position time and time again. If you watched the game, you can't refute that. If Duke had Jefferson back, or a normal shooting output from 3, we'd lose by 10-12 easily. Not to mention, our tremendous defensive effort to end the half which that nearly gave up another uncontested 3, that was luckily a hair after the buzzer.

Please take off the orange shades and call the game for what it was. Duke played like an average team. Tonight's zone wasn't reminisce of some past-NCAA tourney games where our zone could clearly be attributed to mystifying opponents (e.g. top seeded Indiana or OU) where the zone took them out of their rhythm. Duke lost the game on their own.

One last comment, Dajaun Coleman laid one of the biggest eggs of his life. A rotten egg. I have to believe his WF performance was an aberration... a performance unlikely to be seen the rest of the season. Does he have a clue how to go up for a shot, jump for a rebound, or grab the ball and not get it ripped away??? Can we please just start Lydon and bring in DC for fouls. It's disgusting how awful his performance was tonight.

 

[dasher]

No offense, but the 2-3 zone didn't win the game for us. Tyler Roberson carried the team to victory. Barring his near-heroic rebounding effort on the offensive end, and his kick-outs for 2nd chance 3's, we aren't remotely in a position to win.

Great win on paper, nonetheless. However, we did everything give the game away at the end. Duke had an off-night, shooting-wise. Period. The Kennard kid dropped 30 pts last game and went 0-9 tonight w/ a goose-egg on wide-open look after wide-open look. Duke came in shooting over 39% from 3, and only shot 27%. The only thing that the zone played a factor in was giving Duke countless open looks from 3 the entire game. The zone didn't make Duke shoot any deep shots, nor induce strongly contested, tough 3's. The zone didn't force hardly any turnovers, nor create transition from it.

I'll say it again... Duke missed WIDE open looks, that they normally make in any other game... We caught a high-scoring offensive team on a bad night, and suddenly our fan base thinks the zone was a mystifying defense that Duke couldnt crack. But they had no inside presence coming into the game w/ Jefferson out! If Duke's open looks went in ala our St. John's or Clemson debacles, you guys would be singing a different tune. The truth is Duke shifted our zone outta position time and time again. If you watched the game, you can't refute that. If Duke had Jefferson back, or a normal shooting output from 3, we'd lose by 10-12 easily. Not to mention, our tremendous defensive effort to end the half which that nearly gave up another uncontested 3, that was luckily a hair after the buzzer.

Please take off the orange shades and call the game for what it was. Duke played like an average team. Tonight's zone wasn't reminisce of some past-NCAA tourney games where our zone could clearly be attributed to mystifying opponents (e.g. top seeded Indiana or OU) where the zone took them out of their rhythm. Duke lost the game on their own.

One last comment, Dajaun Coleman laid one of the biggest eggs of his life. A rotten egg. I have to believe his WF performance was an aberration... a performance unlikely to be seen the rest of the season. Does he have a clue how to go up for a shot, jump for a rebound, or grab the ball and not get it ripped away??? Can we please just start Lydon and bring in DC for fouls. It's disgusting how awful his performance was tonight.

So, we were lucky that Duke shot so poorly and DC is terrible. Looking forward to your next 23 posts.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm just going by what I see. I saw plenty of dukies catch and shoot in rhythm without much if any contest. Just because we won doesn't mean the flaws in our defense magically go away.

There's a reason why we are #1 in the ACC for 3pt% defense at 22% in conference games and 29% for all games. The zone does more than just hope teams miss their 3's. In fact it doesn't hope at all. It's designed to make shooters take them maybe a foot deeper, shooters not getting to their comfort spot, defenders running out at them, etc. People always think we were lucky or hope the other team misses, but somehow we are usually one of the best teams at defending the 3. We must have a lot of luck.

 

[NKR1978]

So, we were lucky that Duke shot so poorly and DC is terrible. Looking forward to your next 23 posts.

I've never seen one of our fans give us credit for missing wide open shots. Yet our "fans" are really quick to knock our wins when our opponents do.

 

[pearl31]

There's a reason why we are #1 in the ACC for 3pt% defense at 22% in conference games and 29% for all games. The zone does more than just hope teams miss their 3's. In fact it doesn't hope at all. It's designed to make shooters take them maybe a foot deeper, shooters not getting to their comfort spot, defenders running out at them, etc. People always think we were lucky or hope the other team misses, but somehow we are usually one of the best teams at defending the 3. We must have a lot of luck.

this ^^^

 

[TheCusian]

There's a reason why we are #1 in the ACC for 3pt% defense at 22% in conference games and 29% for all games. The zone does more than just hope teams miss their 3's. In fact it doesn't hope at all. It's designed to make shooters take them maybe a foot deeper, shooters not getting to their comfort spot, defenders running out at them, etc. People always think we were lucky or hope the other team misses, but somehow we are usually one of the best teams at defending the 3. We must have a lot of luck.

And late in the shot clock. I always feel like you get a few late in the clock bricks, the zone is doing its job mentally.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

I'm probably the biggest zone hater here but tonight it looked great. We let up a fair share of offensive rebounds but the coverage and defense itself was very good. Roberson was just UNREAL tonight. Props to him! I hope I am wrong 1000900% against the zone. I hope you zone lovers are right every single game and prove me wrong every single game.

 

[FrancoPizza]

There's a reason why we are #1 in the ACC for 3pt% defense at 22% in conference games and 29% for all games. The zone does more than just hope teams miss their 3's. In fact it doesn't hope at all. It's designed to make shooters take them maybe a foot deeper, shooters not getting to their comfort spot, defenders running out at them, etc. People always think we were lucky or hope the other team misses, but somehow we are usually one of the best teams at defending the 3. We must have a lot of luck.

I get what you're saying but even then it's about playing percentages. Percentages imo are not something to rely upon for winning 6 games in a row in March. Let's hope it becomes a relevant question this year and not just a rhetorical one.

Fwiw - rewatched the game. Duke had numerous possessions where their ball reversals or penetration led to wide open looks. Those looks were clearly not a step or two out or anything to throw an asterisk at. Sometimes shooters just have off nights. Not sure why we have to get all mythical and assume it was zone voodoo. If you want to talk voodoo - my guess is Duke is starting to play uptight and lose confidence, especially if those first few shots don't fall. It's raining shaky salted potatoes in Cameron.

 

[rrlbees]

No offense, but the 2-3 zone didn't win the game for us. Tyler Roberson carried the team to victory. Barring his near-heroic rebounding effort on the offensive end, and his kick-outs for 2nd chance 3's, we aren't remotely in a position to win. Great win on paper, nonetheless. However, we did everything give the game away at the end. Duke had an off-night, shooting-wise. Period. The Kennard kid dropped 30 pts last game and went 0-9 tonight w/ a goose-egg on wide-open look after wide-open look. Duke came in shooting over 39% from 3, and only shot 27%. The only thing that the zone played a factor in was giving Duke countless open looks from 3 the entire game. The zone didn't make Duke shoot any deep shots, nor induce strongly contested, tough 3's. The zone didn't force hardly any turnovers, nor create transition from it. I'll say it again... Duke missed WIDE open looks, that they normally make in any other game... We caught a high-scoring offensive team on a bad night, and suddenly our fan base thinks the zone was a mystifying defense that Duke couldnt crack. But they had no inside presence coming into the game w/ Jefferson out! If Duke's open looks went in ala our St. John's or Clemson debacles, you guys would be singing a different tune. The truth is Duke shifted our zone outta position time and time again. If you watched the game, you can't refute that. If Duke had Jefferson back, or a normal shooting output from 3, we'd lose by 10-12 easily. Not to mention, our tremendous defensive effort to end the half which that nearly gave up another uncontested 3, that was luckily a hair after the buzzer. Please take off the orange shades and call the game for what it was. Duke played like an average team. Tonight's zone wasn't reminisce of some past-NCAA tourney games where our zone could clearly be attributed to mystifying opponents (e.g. top seeded Indiana or OU) where the zone took them out of their rhythm. Duke lost the game on their own. One last comment, Dajaun Coleman laid one of the biggest eggs of his life. A rotten egg. I have to believe his WF performance was an aberration... a performance unlikely to be seen the rest of the season. Does he have a clue how to go up for a shot, jump for a rebound, or grab the ball and not get it ripped away??? Can we please just start Lydon and bring in DC for fouls. It's disgusting how awful his performance was tonight.

No offense but Dukes 27% was better than the league leading 22% we had been giving up.

 

[pearl31]

Not sure why we have to get all mythical and assume it was zone voodoo.

kind of like the the ND m2m voodoo giving up 90+ to them last game?

 

[Jack Hall]

I personally think JBs zone is brilliant. No one else now can execute a zone the way his teams can. The last zone i saw nearly as good as JBs matchup was Chaneys at Temple a loong looong time ago. There's a reason he was on the Olympic team and he contributed big to the success they had (ie they utilized his zone at key times), beside his obvious SU accomplishments.

Having said that his zone is not the same w Lydon manning the middle. SUs zone matched up pretty well against duk tonite, but i dont think it will match up as well against uva, they have the big bodies to expose Lydon/Dc that duk did not (well except Plumlee). Having said that if DC can stay out there over 20 mins (and score a couple buckets; get to line) i think the uva game is very winnable! Go Cuse!!

 

[longislandcuse]

I loved the zone in the Tourney with MCW/Southerland etc. That was a freak show of a defense. I'm definitely not a zone hater but wish we also had a secondary M2M or pressure defense we could play in stretches for obvious reasons.

Tonight it seemed like all Duke had to do was take 2 dribbles inside the perimeter and kick it out for a wide open 3. If that was by design so be it, I didn't watch the game tonight and think our defense was amazing like some of you.

 

[FrancoPizza]

kind of like the the ND m2m voodoo giving up 90+ to them last game?

Not sure what your point is. ND doesn't play defense they just outscore the opponent. Check their offensive efficiency ranking.

 

[pearl31]

Not sure what your point is. ND doesn't play defense they just outscore the opponent. Check their offensive efficiency ranking.

The point is our zone defense allowed 62 points tonight while their m2m defense allowed 90+ to the same team a couple games ago.

 

[Rossco123]

No offense, but the 2-3 zone didn't win the game for us. Tyler Roberson carried the team to victory. Barring his near-heroic rebounding effort on the offensive end, and his kick-outs for 2nd chance 3's, we aren't remotely in a position to win.

Great win on paper, nonetheless. However, we did everything give the game away at the end. Duke had an off-night, shooting-wise. Period. The Kennard kid dropped 30 pts last game and went 0-9 tonight w/ a goose-egg on wide-open look after wide-open look. Duke came in shooting over 39% from 3, and only shot 27%. The only thing that the zone played a factor in was giving Duke countless open looks from 3 the entire game. The zone didn't make Duke shoot any deep shots, nor induce strongly contested, tough 3's. The zone didn't force hardly any turnovers, nor create transition from it.

I'll say it again... Duke missed WIDE open looks, that they normally make in any other game... We caught a high-scoring offensive team on a bad night, and suddenly our fan base thinks the zone was a mystifying defense that Duke couldnt crack. But they had no inside presence coming into the game w/ Jefferson out! If Duke's open looks went in ala our St. John's or Clemson debacles, you guys would be singing a different tune. The truth is Duke shifted our zone outta position time and time again. If you watched the game, you can't refute that. If Duke had Jefferson back, or a normal shooting output from 3, we'd lose by 10-12 easily. Not to mention, our tremendous defensive effort to end the half which that nearly gave up another uncontested 3, that was luckily a hair after the buzzer.

Please take off the orange shades and call the game for what it was. Duke played like an average team. Tonight's zone wasn't reminisce of some past-NCAA tourney games where our zone could clearly be attributed to mystifying opponents (e.g. top seeded Indiana or OU) where the zone took them out of their rhythm. Duke lost the game on their own.

One last comment, Dajaun Coleman laid one of the biggest eggs of his life. A rotten egg. I have to believe his WF performance was an aberration... a performance unlikely to be seen the rest of the season. Does he have a clue how to go up for a shot, jump for a rebound, or grab the ball and not get it ripped away??? Can we please just start Lydon and bring in DC for fouls. It's disgusting how awful his performance was tonight.

Except for your DC comments you have just wasted a large amount of space proving that you don't know what you are talking about!

Fwiw - rewatched the game as well as you Franko and and the guards and wings did a really good job of rushing the high % 3s (not the long ones) just the way they are supposed to.

 

[rrlbees]

I get what you're saying but even then it's about playing percentages. Percentages imo are not something to rely upon for winning 6 games in a row in March. Let's hope it becomes a relevant question this year and not just a rhetorical one. Fwiw - rewatched the game. Duke had numerous possessions where their ball reversals or penetration led to wide open looks. Those looks were clearly not a step or two out or anything to throw an asterisk at. Sometimes shooters just have off nights. Not sure why we have to get all mythical and assume it was zone voodoo. If you want to talk voodoo - my guess is Duke is starting to play uptight and lose confidence, especially if those first few shots don't fall. It's raining shaky salted potatoes in Cameron.

They took 37 3's. They're gonna get some wide open ones. But they worked hard to get those 37. The zone wore them down some too and most they took weren't wide open and probably deeper than usual. There's a reason why 22% is the percentage and its not voodoo.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The point is our zone defense allowed 62 points tonight while their m2m defense allowed 90+ to the same team a couple games ago.

so we might play better defense than notre Dame which isn't saying much of anything. ND historically is a weak defensive team.

Everything is about PPG with the zonies, isn't it? Are you forgetting the part where games grind to a halt because teams slow waaay down in their halfcourt sets? Slower tempo, fewer possessions, fewer points to go around.

Now that being said our defensive efficiency is climbing. That's trending in the right direction, especially because of the rebounding.

 

[jgeorge322]

Yeah whatever it was, I'll take it. But most of his 3's were the open 1's, so its hard to tell if it was the D or just not his night.

It wasnt his night. I didnt see him taking many bad shots. That being said, plumlee was unreal for them. Whats funny is reading comments from the duke board saying he got too many minutes. What?