Why can't SU recruit guards who can shoot?

[SWC75]

Especially at point guard. College basketball is so guard driven, that not having a difference maker is a huge liability.

I get that we recruit for zone, but I think we should forego that "profile" philosophy and start bringing in lead guards who are studs.

How good would this team look with Monte Morris or Ja'Quan Newton running the point? Frustrating.

Yeah, we never recruit lead guards who are studs. Except the two that are in the NBA.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yeah, we never recruit lead guards who are studs. Except the two that are in the NBA.

MCW is one of the worst shooters in the league, but in terms of overall ability and running an offense and playing solid defense, is a great player

 

[jdubs30]

> Rain 3s in Atlantis
> Average around 9 3's a game on the year
> Make 14 3's last game
> Very one-dimensional team -- when we don't hit 3s we don't win
> People complain that we don't recruit shooters

 

[Millhouse]

We hit 14 three pointers in our last game. In this one we hit five and suddenly we never recruit anybody who can shoot.

This is not just a reaction to one game

 

[RF2044]

Yeah, we never recruit lead guards who are studs. Except the two that are in the NBA.

Way to miss the point. Pun intended.

BTW, wish we'd gotten more than two years of production combined from those two players.

 

[pearl31]

We hit 14 three pointers in our last game. In this one we hit five and suddenly we never recruit anybody who can shoot.

(Colgate)

 

[Brooky03]

cooney can't shoot. tyler ennis can't shoot. michael carter williams can't shoot. caleb joseph can't shoot. patterson couldn't shoot. triche couldn't shoot.

i'm tired of praying for a guard who can shoot as well as scoop jardine who is now roughly 47 years old and was never actually all that good a shooter

Cooney was recruited as a shooter by everybody. Your argument had nothing to do with performance in college. You argued that we haven't recruited shooters. Cooney's recruitment spits in the face of that argument.

Ennis shot 35% from 3-point range and Triche was a career 33% 3-point shooter. There is no argument that they couldn't shoot. None. Was that their specialty? No, but that is beside the point.

MCW was a phenominal defensive guard - possibly the best Syracuse has ever had - and he spearheaded a team that went to the Final Four. You want to complain because he only shot 31% from deep? Really? No, you're right, Syracuse should have recruited a 6'1" shooter at PG instead of him. How silly of them.

Patterson? You want to talk about the guy who was brought in late, solely as a stop-gap, never intended to be a big contributor until maybe his senior year? Great point.

Kaleb Joseph can't shoot. So I guess you made a valid point with one player. Good work.

 

[Brooky03]

This is not just a reaction to one game

Yes it is.

 

[Ghost]

Yes it is.

I mean, you have to take a step back and be reasonable. We've been starting TC for three years - and playing him an ungodly number of minutes.

He's not a playmaker. He's not a good shooter. He's not good at attacking the rim. That speaks a lot to what we've recruited over the last 4 years or so at the guard spot. A SF is playing PG, our starting PG from last year isn't good enough to play either guard position this year, our other two recruits transferred...Ennis was more of a game manager, and quite good at that. Tempo was super-slow, but he was good.

It's not really a one game reaction.

Millhouse is right, Scoop is the best shooter we've had in a pretty decent stretch of time. And most people on this forum used to scream in the chatroom, "Scooptard," when he attempted threes.

 

[Alsacs]

Complaining about Cooney is so 2013. He isn't good enough to be a go to guy. I have more of a problem with his mpg.
G could easily play SG and we could be giving minutes to Howard to develop at PG.

Instead the kid never sits and it just boggles my mind. Programs like Syracuse shouldn't be giving players that aren't superstars minutes like they are superstars.

Cooney can shoot he just isn't consistent. That is because he is easily defended. He can't drive to the rim thus he needs screens to get to open to shoot. I just wish he would play less then I wouldn't care one iota.

 

[Brooky03]

I mean, you have to take a step back and be reasonable. We've been starting TC for three years - and playing him an ungodly number of minutes.

He's not a playmaker. He's not a good shooter. He's not good at attacking the rim. That speaks a lot to what we've recruited over the last 4 years or so at the guard spot. A SF is playing PG, our starting PG from last year isn't good enough to play either guard position this year, our other two recruits transferred...Ennis was more of a game manager, and quite good at that. Tempo was super-slow, but he was good.

It's not really a one game reaction.

Millhouse is right, Scoop is the best shooter we've had in a pretty decent stretch of time. And most people on this forum used to scream in the chatroom, "Scooptard," when he attempted threes.

Cooney struggling and Cooney getting a crap ton of minutes is not relevant to the argument being made. Cooney could shoot. Cooney was recruited as a shooter. Therefore, Syracuse recruited a guard who could shoot. Ennis shot 35% from 3 as a freshman on a good number of attempts. Scoop shot 36% for his career. It is more than fair to say Ennis was as good a shooter as Jardine. Triche struggled in his senior year, which really killed his career percentage, but he tallied 40%, 33%, and 35% in his first three seasons. Most (All. And yes, I mean all) college basketball teams would love to have a physical 6'4" SG who could get to the rim, pass, play D, and shoot like Triche did.

Basically, Millhouse's argument is coming down to what it always comes down to. He doesn't like that Cooney plays a ton of minutes and isn't an above average 3-point shooter (Millhouse would say he isn't even average). Considering Cooney and Triche are the only shooting guards we've had for the last 8 years, it's disingenuous to say Syracuse doesn't recruit shooters at the guard positions. Why not just say, "Why didn't the coaching staff recruit over Trevor Cooney for crying out loud?!"

 

[Brooky03]

Andy Rautins and Eric Devendorf made a couple 3-pointers back in the day, if memory serves me.

 

[longtimefan]

He's streaky and he has no conscience.

Based upon what we saw today, Richardson is even streakier, and has even less conscience. I hope that's not the case.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Cooney was recruited as a shooter by everybody. Your argument had nothing to do with performance in college. You argued that we haven't recruited shooters. Cooney's recruitment spits in the face of that argument.

Ennis shot 35% from 3-point range and Triche was a career 33% 3-point shooter. There is no argument that they couldn't shoot. None. Was that their specialty? No, but that is beside the point.

MCW was a phenominal defensive guard - possibly the best Syracuse has ever had - and he spearheaded a team that went to the Final Four. You want to complain because he only shot 31% from deep? Really? No, you're right, Syracuse should have recruited a 6'1" shooter at PG instead of him. How silly of them.

Patterson? You want to talk about the guy who was brought in late, solely as a stop-gap, never intended to be a big contributor until maybe his senior year? Great point.

Kaleb Joseph can't shoot. So I guess you made a valid point with one player. Good work.

stevie thompson was the best defensive guard we've ever had. he did play guard towards the latter part of his career

 

[longtimefan]

cooney can't shoot. tyler ennis can't shoot. michael carter williams can't shoot. caleb joseph can't shoot. patterson couldn't shoot. triche couldn't shoot.

i'm tired of praying for a guard who can shoot as well as scoop jardine who is now roughly 47 years old and was never actually all that good a shooter

I would give up a pinky to have a guard as good as Triche on our roster every year.

 

[Brooky03]

stevie thompson was the best defensive guard we've ever had. he did play guard towards the latter part of his career

That's why I added the "possibly" qualifier. MCW's in the discussion.

 

[Ghost]

Cooney struggling and Cooney getting a crap ton of minutes is not relevant to the argument being made. Cooney could shoot. Cooney was recruited as a shooter. Therefore, Syracuse recruited a guard who could shoot. Ennis shot 35% from 3 as a freshman on a good number of attempts. Scoop shot 36% for his career. It is more than fair to say Ennis was as good a shooter as Jardine. Triche struggled in his senior year, which really killed his career percentage, but he tallied 40%, 33%, and 35% in his first three seasons. Most (All. And yes, I mean all) college basketball teams would love to have a physical 6'4" SG who could get to the rim, pass, play D, and shoot like Triche did.

Basically, Millhouse's argument is coming down to what it always comes down to. He doesn't like that Cooney plays a ton of minutes and isn't an above average 3-point shooter (Millhouse would say he isn't even average). Considering Cooney and Triche are the only shooting guards we've had for the last 8 years, it's disingenuous to say Syracuse doesn't recruit shooters at the guard positions. Why not just say, "Why didn't the coaching staff recruit over Trevor Cooney for crying out loud?!"

I get what you're saying - my argument generally falls into the we don't recruit dynamic/skilled players at the guard position. We seem to be addressing the shooting issue somewhat this past year. We need more dynamic players/guards. Oh, and we struggle to teach anyone to play zone defense of late - so we can't go to the bench.

Wow, Scoop is best by career percentage out of all those guys? That's terrifying considering the stomach-turning effect his three point shots caused for most of his career. I just figured his last year he trounced them.

 

[orange79]

any bozo can look up high school stats. their job is to project. and it's not just cooney.

Why you calling me names, bro?

 

[Millhouse]

Cooney struggling and Cooney getting a crap ton of minutes is not relevant to the argument being made. Cooney could shoot. Cooney was recruited as a shooter. Therefore, Syracuse recruited a guard who could shoot. Ennis shot 35% from 3 as a freshman on a good number of attempts. Scoop shot 36% for his career. It is more than fair to say Ennis was as good a shooter as Jardine. Triche struggled in his senior year, which really killed his career percentage, but he tallied 40%, 33%, and 35% in his first three seasons. Most (All. And yes, I mean all) college basketball teams would love to have a physical 6'4" SG who could get to the rim, pass, play D, and shoot like Triche did.

Basically, Millhouse's argument is coming down to what it always comes down to. He doesn't like that Cooney plays a ton of minutes and isn't an above average 3-point shooter (Millhouse would say he isn't even average). Considering Cooney and Triche are the only shooting guards we've had for the last 8 years, it's disingenuous to say Syracuse doesn't recruit shooters at the guard positions. Why not just say, "Why didn't the coaching staff recruit over Trevor Cooney for crying out loud?!"

First you say its just a reaction to one game, then you say its always the same argument

 

[br801]

Cooney struggling and Cooney getting a crap ton of minutes is not relevant to the argument being made. Cooney could shoot. Cooney was recruited as a shooter. Therefore, Syracuse recruited a guard who could shoot. Ennis shot 35% from 3 as a freshman on a good number of attempts. Scoop shot 36% for his career. It is more than fair to say Ennis was as good a shooter as Jardine. Triche struggled in his senior year, which really killed his career percentage, but he tallied 40%, 33%, and 35% in his first three seasons. Most (All. And yes, I mean all) college basketball teams would love to have a physical 6'4" SG who could get to the rim, pass, play D, and shoot like Triche did.

Basically, Millhouse's argument is coming down to what it always comes down to. He doesn't like that Cooney plays a ton of minutes and isn't an above average 3-point shooter (Millhouse would say he isn't even average). Considering Cooney and Triche are the only shooting guards we've had for the last 8 years, it's disingenuous to say Syracuse doesn't recruit shooters at the guard positions. Why not just say, "Why didn't the coaching staff recruit over Trevor Cooney for crying out loud?!"

And don't forget Dion. He was an ok SG and not a bad 3-point shooter by the numbers.

 

[retro44]

Boeheim has said we recruit players who we think can play the zone and their offense will come later.

Richarson was 4-20 and o-11 from 3

Cooney was 3-12 and 1-8 from 3.

Not good at all. Syracuse has no inside game at all and Richardson has turned into a big liability around the basket on offense. Just foul him or let him shoot as either he misses the bunnies or gets the ball blocked by either player or rim. Coleman just has had bad luck with his injuries and can't elevate enough to get off good shots.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Maybe it's just Syracuse. A lot of these guys seem to be better shooters at the beginning of their careers than the end. Cooney was 38% two years ago, now he's in the low 30's. Triche started at 40% and his percentages dropped throughout his career. Are they put in places they can best succeed?

Malachi was supposed to be a shooter, but he's at 27% right now. I don't know if he can shoot as good as Cooney can, his Free Throw percentage is in the 60's. That's not the mark of a good shooter.

Mike is this teams number 1 option. We really need to make Lydon option number 2. He's the most talented player we have.

 

[Millhouse]

Since Mcnamara has been a full assistant coach, SU's guards have shot 33% from 3 point range and have shot 70% from the free throw line

Dukes guards have shot 39% from three and 79% from the free throw line

Duke is 18% better from 3 and 13% better. (not percentage points, taking the difference in shooting percentages and dividing by su's shooting percentage)

I'm not pinning this on McNamara but, for whatever reason, he is not coaching these guys into shooters.

 

[retro44]

Maybe it's just Syracuse. A lot of these guys seem to be better shooters at the beginning of their careers than the end. Cooney was 38% two years ago, now he's in the low 30's. Triche started at 40% and his percentages dropped throughout his career. Are they put in places they can best succeed?

Malachi was supposed to be a shooter, but he's at 27% right now. I don't know if he can shoot as good as Cooney can, his Free Throw percentage is in the 60's. That's not the mark of a good shooter.

Mike is this teams number 1 option. We really need to make Lydon option number 2. He's the most talented player we have.

Too many here will protect and defend all the former guards of Boeheim as coaches. I too have seen these trends and have concerns about them. Something is off when stats regress over time.

 

[Millhouse]

Maybe it's just Syracuse. A lot of these guys seem to be better shooters at the beginning of their careers than the end. Cooney was 38% two years ago, now he's in the low 30's. Triche started at 40% and his percentages dropped throughout his career. Are they put in places they can best succeed?

Malachi was supposed to be a shooter, but he's at 27% right now. I don't know if he can shoot as good as Cooney can, his Free Throw percentage is in the 60's. That's not the mark of a good shooter.

Mike is this teams number 1 option. We really need to make Lydon option number 2. He's the most talented player we have.

thank you for mentioning free throws. it's a good way to judge pure shooting ability because it takes out so many other variables.