Wichita St

[jncuse]

If they do they aren't following their own rules as set out. I'm not saying you aren't correct that they will do this I'm saying the resume still would not be1 seed worthy from what I can see.

Its hard to say really, although you are correct they would be veering from their established preference of quality win standard. Just remember that is merely a preference .. they can justify anything with "entire body of work" -- whatever that means at times.

I think the 4th best major conference team may not have a great resume this year. You could go the quality win route... but certainly those major conference teams will have at least one loss to a team at a level that Wichita St has beat a handful of times. Its so hard to compare.

http://www.rpiforecast.com/index2.html

I bring up RPI Forecast just to see what the 4th best team may look

Syracuse, Zona, Kansas are #1's based on that data. The fourth would probably be Michigan St (Nova and Florida next in line). Ultimately, the argument for Wichita St would be "Hey, we are looking at this the wrong way. Its not all based on wins - of course Michigan St will have more wins - they have more opportunity. Michigan St lost to Georgetown. Wichita St has a poor schedule, but it played about 8 games this season above or fairly close to that level of game, and did not lose. They deserve the benefit of the doubt over the Spartans based on this".

The argument falls apart with 1 loss, and its not perfect.

 

[jncuse]

You may like his computations I don't care for them.

I definitely do like them, but admit there are limitations. I also consider polls. analysts, my own eyes in December. I would never say team A is #3 in KP, therefore it is better than team B which is #6. I look more for "range" of team, or teams that may be getting slept on.

For top 5, where there are only a few losses per top team, I like to assess the top 5 on my own without something like KP. As I have said several times, that is harder to do the farther away we get from top 5 (and pretty quickly at that as well)

 

[jncuse]

Teams like WSU and SLU have earned the benefit of the doubt imo. When talking about #1 seeds, certainly the margin for error for Wichita is Ally McBeal-esque, but at the same time no team has entered the tourney since UNLV 23 years ago, right? It would be a special achievement.

Agreed.

One team that is using up its slight margin for error appears to be SDSU. Losing at Boise St (not a horrendous loss by the way), but given limited opportunities it must take advantage of them.

St Louis will have a chance to improve its resume the rest of the season, and prove they are somewhat legit or not. Conference schedule is backloaded similar to ours -- they end their season with 5 games against potential tourney teams (VCU Twice, UMAss, GW, and Dayton). Not that they will get in #1 seed discussion.

 

[cuseattle]

Wichita St. Creighton. St. Louis. Gonzaga.
All good, but give me anyone of those as a three in the east.

 

[Doc5120]

hey wichita state has every right to a long run in the tourney. but imo you have to earn the top seeds. so scheduling soft all season just means they face a steeper climb to the finals. just as it should be. if they're so great whats the big problem?

I'm with you on this. WSU is a very good team, but if someone can honestly tell me if they played in the ACC, Big 12, Big 10, etc that they'd go undefeated, I'd have them admitted to an insane asylum. WSU's best win is against a good St. Louis team. After that, it's what...a middle of the pack SEC team in Tennessee or a 15-9 BYU team? I'm sorry, but that doesn't scream #1 seed to me. You can't tell me SU, AZ, Kansas, MSU, Fla, Duke, etc etc are not a better team than them. If SU played the same schedule as WSU and didn't go undefeated, I'd be extremely disappointed.

And let's not kid ourselves and say they have "virtually the same team as last year."

1) Last year means jack .
2) They lost Armstead and Hall, their 2nd & 3rd best players.

They have a very good team. A team I could see making another final 4 run, but I don't believe for 1 minute that they're an elite team.

 

[jncuse]

I'm with you on this. WSU is a very good team, but if someone can honestly tell me if they played in the ACC, Big 12, Big 10, etc that they'd go undefeated, I'd have them admitted to an insane asylum. WSU's best win is against a good St. Louis team. After that, it's what...a middle of the pack SEC team in Tennessee or a 15-9 BYU team? I'm sorry, but that doesn't scream #1 seed to me. You can't tell me SU, AZ, Kansas, MSU, Fla, Duke, etc etc are not a better team than them. If SU played the same schedule as WSU and didn't go undefeated, I'd be extremely disappointed.

And let's not kid ourselves and say they have "virtually the same team as last year."

1) Last year means jack .
2) They lost Armstead and Hall, their 2nd & 3rd best players.

They have a very good team. A team I could see making another final 4 run, but I don't believe for 1 minute that they're an elite team.

Wichita St would not go undefeated in those conferences - but it would not need to be either. They would be permitted 4 or 5 losses, and be a #1 seed. The thing is we have no reasonable way to assess how they would do in those conferences. Would they be at the top? upper middle? middle?

I think they are a 2/3 seed level team, and I am somewhat relying on their KP ranking for that. But they will get a #1 seed if they run the table.

 

[Doc5120]

Wichita St would not go undefeated in those conferences - but it would not need to be either. They would be permitted 4 or 5 losses, and be a #1 seed. The thing is we have no reasonable way to assess how they would do in those conferences. Would they be at the top? upper middle? middle?

I think they are a 2/3 seed level team, and I am somewhat relying on their KP ranking for that. But they will get a #1 seed if they run the table.

That's a very good point. They definitely wouldn't need to go undefeated. I think they're a 3/4 type seed...but as you said, if they run the table, they're getting a 1. My question is, could they handle the grind of a BCS conference, where most nights you're going up against a team that at least has a puncher's chance, and certainly so on the road. It wouldn't surprise me to see WSU in the final 4, and it also wouldn't surprise me to see them not get out of the first weekend.

 

[Truth]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology/team-comparison/WICHST/CUSE

 

[Truth]

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=263360183

 

[Doc5120]

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=263360183

Ahh yes, a boxscore from 7 years ago...better known as a time when all of the current guys on the rosters were in the 6th-9th grades. Very appropriate for such a discussion.

 

[Truth]

WSU hates being in the MVC. They would jump to a better conference if an offer was forthcoming.

They can only do so much with their noncon if the bigger schools won't play them. As you can see from the above link, the Shockers visited Syracuse, won, and were never invited back.

 

[jncuse]

WSU hates being in the MVC. They would jump to a better conference if an offer was forthcoming.

They can only do so much with their noncon if the bigger schools won't play them. As you can see from the above link, the Shockers visited Syracuse, won, and were never invited back.

The only better options basketball wise for Wichita St would probably be the A-10. Has the schools ever considered that? Or is not enough of an upgrade to justify the extra athletic costs.

 

[Orangemen]

WSU hates being in the MVC. They would jump to a better conference if an offer was forthcoming.

They can only do so much with their noncon if the bigger schools won't play them. As you can see from the above link, the Shockers visited Syracuse, won, and were never invited back.

Have they ever asked if they can comeback? Without both sides of the equation that's a pretty hollow statement, easy, but hollow.

 

[Truth]

HC says scheduling is one of the most difficult aspects of the WSU job. They have a guy who works on scheduling almost year round. When you call a big-time school like Syracuse (any many, many big time schools have been contacted) and ask for a home and home, or a home and neutral, the typical response is "yeah, right." WSU can't play all its noncom games on the road. They don't have a big ACC TV contract. The athletic budget is all about selling out the home basketball games. Bill Self has gone on record saying he is not going to play WSU.

The radio guy says they are in talks with UCLA, Purdue, and UConn for next year. UCLA and Purdue are coached by former Valley head coaches. That's the only way they got Tennessee on the schedule this year as well.

It is unlikely the A-10 would ever invite WSU as they seem to be focusing on eastern teams. The AAC would be a good fit as it would put them back with former conference rivals Memphis and Tulsa. But lack of football is problematic. Same with the Mountain West. The Big East prefers Catholic schools. WSU would go to any better conference but they have to be invited first.

 

[SoBeCuse]

which returns to my original point. congratulations WSU you're undefeated ! and in march you get punished for scheduling such fluff.
let's reward those teams that face real stiff competition all season and quit coddling the lollydick dodgers.

Have they ever asked if they can comeback? Without both sides of the equation that's a pretty hollow statement, easy, but hollow.

I doubt Boeheim and other coaches like Self how Truth mentioned want to do that return trip to Koch Arena. As I posted earlier it is tough to schedule games for a WSU. Posters such as tbonezone fail to realize this and rip WSU for their schedule. I bet their coach doesn't like their schedule and isn't satisfied with it either but his hands are tied.

 

[jncuse]

Wichita St will do a home and home with anybody. It draws good crowds as well. I can understand why they will not do road only -- its too big of a competitive disadvantage. It should be able to get some home/home series with some mid revenue level power teams - teams such as UConn, UCLA, Purdue mentioned above should be good fits. Teams like UK/Syracuse won't do this for revenue reasons.

I am sure they will be able to get more deals done off this year and last year's F4. Perhaps get some Neutral Games (some of those 4 team tournaments). Gonzaga was able to do the same once it established its name.

 

[jec1521]

Every time I hear Wichita state I think of that 07 game where demetris Nichols missed the fast break layup to win. I can't be the only one.

 

[jncuse]

Every time I hear Wichita state I think of that 07 game where demetris Nichols missed the fast break layup to win. I can't be the only one.

I have only been to a few games in the past 10 years. That was one of them.