Wildhack is on the Clock

[dasher]

maybe. But if you watch a Siena game, and I've seen several early in the season, the players just look like they play harder and are better coached than our players. Even with a level of talent that may be below ours. And I think Donna's article Tuesday morning about the Siena-Cornell game shows there's a difference. Many of us knew there was a problem from the first game vs. LeMoyne.

That first game vs LeMoyne wasn't his first game as a coach. He coached a season last year. I don't want to be put in a position of defending what I have watched this season. But i don't want JB anywhere near this decision. The only decision I wanted him to make was to quit 6 years before he did. When he wasn't the same guy that he was when I went to school 48 years ago.

 

[dasher]

If there are things going on that we don't know about, so be it. That's why ADJW gets the big bucks. But I believe it still may ultimately come down to one thing - Can Adrian Autry actually coach? So far there are significant questions whether he can. And, as others have pointed out on here, the problem may have been hidden last year unbeknownst to many of us.

I don't disagree with one word you just said. I just wrote to someone off line, that is the question. Do you (if you are JW) still believe in the guy you hired just two years ago. At the very least, there has to be some changes made this off season. At the very least.

 

[kcsu]

No way on JB.

JB was an institution. I am immensely grateful for all of the joy that JB has brought to my life, as an SU fan, my entire life.

But at the end, JB was only about JB. I understand the sentiment, but I don't want him anywhere near the decision making process -- he already gunked things up last time, and while I have no problem with him being "consulted" or being part of a group process, the notion that he would wield some decision-making power over the next hire should scare SU fans.

100%

 

[dasher]

I still don't think it's the Red or lose Kiyan / Carmelo dialectic that some are implying. That could certainly be an outcome. But it isn't the only one.

I agree. I will say that Melo was not the slam dunk most here think. But the guy I would worry about losing more is White.

 

[wiCuse]

I still don't think it's the Red or lose Kiyan / Carmelo dialectic that some are implying. That could certainly be an outcome. But it isn't the only one.

There seems to finally be a consensus that Red cannot coach and that he's not the long-term solution. Some seem to think or know that Team Melo could get the program back on track with NIL.

I cannot picture Red outcoaching anyone with or without talent. Coaching is still important. We have an inferior staff in general. Good high school recruiting staff and those in the know have nothing but good things to say about Kline. Red will continue to get in the way... Let's say Melo brings the talent in next year. Coaching will need to get us to the sweet 16 or compete for a conference championship. Our guys cannot execute a basic pin down screen (those are Red's own words)!!!

What do you see as another option to get a new coach?

 

[Newhouser]

I will be honest, I don't know how Kiyan or the fact Melo will be watching in the stands gets us veteran portal guys who are older than him, have been in college to come to Cuse. Maybe it happens, great.

Can Melo get Mike Woodson out of IU to come to SU like Calipari from Tucky to Arky or Enfield from USC to SMU?

Which got me thinking, what did USC get for the Bronny James experience? Isaiah Collier was there and the team was a circus, finished in last place and Endfield had to skip town to SMU due to the failed season. It basically was a disaster and we are already trending that way.

And we have to consider that Kiyan could turn out to be just ok. How does Melo react to that...

 

[kingtidge]

I agree. I will say that Melo was not the slam dunk most here think. But the guy I would worry about losing more is White.

As I have been saying, after watching the announcement talk-in Team Melo did, it seemed to me that USC and Musselman were real contenders, not just there to have a second hat on the table when he picked up the Cuse hat...

 

[Red2003]

He isn't talking about that. And he is right. There are things going on that if we changed right now, we would lose and these things could, could, pay big dividends down the road. Now, you are not wrong as well. Maybe it is better for us in the long run to rip the band aid off and start over. It just isn't as easy a call as fans would think it is.

My thought is the guys making the decisions are most worried about the bad headlines.

Headlines dragging Syracuse through the mud if Kiyan does open back up his recruitment or worst case he does bounce are something I don't think they can stomach.

I got ripped apart pretty good here by people saying its only one headline or oh everyone will forget and it'll be just a day. Maybe that's true but when's the last time anyone even read an article about Syracuse hoops outside of CNY, when the old man was bounced probably. Then a few years later they're reading about how Melo's son who was coming here might not be coming here.

It may not be best for the program but I just think their heads will be thinking more about the optics.

 

[hoopsupstate]

There seems to finally be a consensus that Red cannot coach and that he's not the long-term solution. Some seem to think or know that Team Melo could get the program back on track with NIL.

I cannot picture Red outcoaching anyone with or without talent. Coaching is still important. We have an inferior staff in general. Good high school recruiting staff and those in the know have nothing but good things to say about Kline. Red will continue to get in the way... Let's say Melo brings the talent in next year. Coaching will need to get us to the sweet 16 or compete for a conference championship. Our guys cannot execute a basic pin down screen (those are Red's own words)!!!

What do you see as another option to get a new coach?

Did he out coach Davis against Carolina last year or was it just luck or overwhelming talent?

 

[dasher]

My thought is the guys making the decisions are most worried about the bad headlines.

Headlines dragging Syracuse through the mud if Kiyan does open back up his recruitment or worst case he does bounce are something I don't think they can stomach.

I got ripped apart pretty good here by people saying its only one headline or oh everyone will forget and it'll be just a day. Maybe that's true but when's the last time anyone even read an article about Syracuse hoops outside of CNY, when the old man was bounced probably. Then a few years later they're reading about how Melo's son who was coming here might not be coming here.

It may not be best for the program but I just think their heads will be thinking more about the optics.

The guys making these decisions aren't worried about bad headlines.

 

[djcon57]

Maybe that's true but when's the last time anyone even read an article about Syracuse hoops outside of CNY,

When's the last time you read an article about college basketball? Anywhere?

Where are these headlines you refer to?

I'd legit guess 90% of sports fans couldn't name who the #1 team is right now

I'd guess 98% of sports fans could name a player on the #1 team right now.

I'd also guess 98% of Syracuse fans couldn't name more than 2 players on the #1 team right now...and we played them a couple weeks ago

 

[djcon57]

Did he out coach Davis against Carolina last year or was it just luck or overwhelming talent?

Luck.

Usually that's the type of shooting performance you see when a 15 seed wins in the tourney.

 

[gmoney44]

My thought is the guys making the decisions are most worried about the bad headlines.

Headlines dragging Syracuse through the mud if Kiyan does open back up his recruitment or worst case he does bounce are something I don't think they can stomach.

I got ripped apart pretty good here by people saying its only one headline or oh everyone will forget and it'll be just a day. Maybe that's true but when's the last time anyone even read an article about Syracuse hoops outside of CNY, when the old man was bounced probably. Then a few years later they're reading about how Melo's son who was coming here might not be coming here.

It may not be best for the program but I just think their heads will be thinking more about the optics.

So let the program completely hit rock bottom and hang there for years to avoid the optics of a hypothetical scenario.

Unfortunately that sounds like something SU would consider.

 

[Newhouser]

There are two people that should be talked to about the next hire, if there will be a next hire, for their input besides John's inner circle, JAB and Melo.

JAB should be nowhere near the process and I'm 50/50 on Melo.

 

[Cusefan0307]

My two cents is based completely on Melos influence and importance to our program. We already lost significant money with Adam being shown the door. Melo has the clout and the capital to really help the program. I can see a scenario where things do get much better next season with Red coaching. Talent is 80% of winning basketball and JB will agree. Yes, some coaches are fantastic but for the most part it is talent that wins games not coaches. Red can recruit that is a given. The new GM is going to hopefully make sure we don't waste resources on kids Like Lampkin and Bell. We have three excellent players coming in next year and a core group that if we can keep together should be solid. We are in my opinion a PG and 5 away from making the tournament next year. If Red goes, we are looking at the following.
Melo and his kid as well as the other recruits are gone. JJ is gone, Maybe the entire team. Now if we all think that some mid major stud is going to come to SU and influence Melo the other recruits and some of the existing kids to stick. Great. We keep the talent and get a better coach. If, however, the cupboard is bare and all we get is a new mid major coach I'm not rolling the dice on that call vs Red for another year. After next season if we don't make the dance go ahead and clean house. My bet is on talent vs coaching which is why I'm for giving Red another season.

You‘re wrong. Coaching matters. Look at UNC and Miami. They have plenty of talent and stink.. Heck we have higher rated guys than the end of JB’s tenure, but we are a complete mess on the court. Talent alone doesn’t win. We need a legit offensive and defensive system with pieces that fit together along with proper rotation management.

 

[Scooch]

Let the process play out. You don’t make emotional decisions.

1) Of course we're gong to let the process play out. He's not being let go during the season.

2)The "emotional decision" thing is a strawman. One can remove all emotion and judge the current health of the program with stone cold objectivity.

At the moment, what’s hurting this team the most is the constant negativity by people who think they know more than the coaching staff.

What's hurting this team the most is that (a) the roster is as untalented as any as I've seen in my 33 seasons of fandom since I enrolled at SU; and (b) not a single player on tge team is playing to their full capabilities. We're seeing underperformance from literally everyone. Save, Starling when he was healthy.

The negativity is merely the predictable result of truly horrid play.

 

[djcon57]

You don’t make emotional decisions.

At the moment, what’s hurting this team the most is the constant negativity by people who think they know more than the coaching staff.

Who's emotional now?

 

[Fly Rodder]

Luck.

Usually that's the type of shooting performance you see when a 15 seed wins in the tourney.

Yeah, SU shot 47% from three, including Maliq going 2/2, and Judah had as many free throw attempts by himself as UNC did as a team. Last season, SU had a .750 winning % (12-4) when opponents had 15 or fewer FTA. When opponents had more than 15 FTAs, SU was .500 (8-8). They were 17-0 when scoring more than 75 points and 3-12 when scoring fewer than 75 points. It was also the highest FG% for SU last season (.625) and the next best were against Louisville (x2), VTI, Oregon, Chaminade, and Canisius.

That UNC win was flukey. Trends in college basketball are way more important than one-off games.

 

[wiCuse]

Did he out coach Davis against Carolina last year or was it just luck or overwhelming talent?

How about vs Gonzaga, Tennessee, Virginia, @UNC, @BC, @Wake, Clemson, NC State (ACC tournament). All double digit loses . I'm sure I forgot a few. Do you want me to do this season???

 

[djcon57]

Yeah, SU shot 47% from three, including Maliq going 2/2, and Judah had as many free throw attempts by himself as UNC did as a team. Last season, SU had a .750 winning % (12-4) when opponents had 15 or fewer FTA. When opponents had more than 15 FTAs, SU was .500 (8-8). They were 17-0 when scoring more than 75 points and 3-12 when scoring fewer than 75 points. It was also the highest FG% for SU last season (.625) and the next three best were against Louisville (x2), VTI, Oregon, Chaminade, and Canisius.

That UNC win was flukey. Trends in college basketball are way more important than one-off games.

I mentioned at the time of the game it was exciting to see and hoped we could build of it.

We then lost the next game at a terrible 14-18 Ga Tech team.

Was just a one off. Nothing more.

 

[hoopsupstate]

How about vs Gonzaga, Tennessee, Virginia, @UNC, @BC, @Wake, Clemson, NC State (ACC tournament). All double digit loses . I'm sure I forgot a few. Do you want me to do this season???

You said he couldn’t out coach anyone. I guess they were lucky twenty times last year.

 

[UpstateSM]

Did he out coach Davis against Carolina last year or was it just luck or overwhelming talent?

Or we just caught a really good team sleeping in a game that was our Super Bowl and meant nothing to them? The goalposts will never stop moving for some. We will win single digit games this season and there will still be "well actually"'s flying around.

We suck and our coach can't coach. Unserious program and have been for awhile. Full stop.

 

[wiCuse]

You said he couldn’t out coach anyone. I guess they were lucky twenty times last year.

We're having two separate conversations. My standard for SU is a protected seed, top 3-5 finish in the conference. Yes, he cannot out coach his peers in that group on a regular basis.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Board "fact," IMHO. Carmelo's kid committed to play for Syracuse under Red the HC, so...

Truthfully, we have no idea what the Anthony clan would do if Red were replaced. Perhaps they'd feel worse about having Kiyan come here if this season continues to unfold the way it has. Maybe they'd be supportive of a change, so that their kid can be part of the program's resurgence instead of it's middling decline.

Or maybe they would reconsider entirely if Red is replaced.

I find the first set of scenarios equally as possible as the worrisome one. And I'm not sure that we should have what the Anthony's choose to do factor into the AD's decision AT ALL about what to do with Red after the season.

From what I have heard, Red being the coach had little to no impact on Kiyan coming to SU and I don't believe Red being let go would cause him to re-evaluation his decision.

 

[dasher]

From what I have heard, Red being the coach had little to no impact on Kiyan coming to SU and I don't believe Red being let go would cause him to re-evaluation his decision.

Kiyan was not a slam dunk to Syracuse. The staff worked it's tail off to get him. No guarantee he sticks
if we change staff. He might stick. But it is no sure thing.