Wildhack is on the Clock

[OrangeFoo]

While debating how badly JB screwed the program with his last decade of stubbornness is fun and all… the real question remains how much rope does Autry have and when can I start watching college hoops again?

fwiw… more often than not companies make continuity hires because it’s usually the path of least resistance. Not saying that’s the tight or wrong decisio, it’s human nature.

Of all the blue bloods… I think Kansas did a great job going outside the program to replace Roy Williams with Bill Self and Kentucky with Pitino and then Calipari. Most others went with someone from the ”family”. The other issue here is how few really talented coaches have come from the JB tree.

 

[DilemaCuse]

The mistake was when Hop left, JW should have done a search at that point. It was the perfect opportunity to do a national search because no one on staff would have been expected to take over. He was worried about keeping everything as normal as possible so he extended JB. JB got exactly what he wanted.

Hop left in 17, was there 1 more year or was that supposed to be the last season of this succession that didn't happen? I can't remember

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Hop left in 17, was there 1 more year or was that supposed to be the last season of this succession that didn't happen? I can't remember

Hop left one year before JB was supposed to retire.

Instead of holding JB to his exit date, Wildhack let him hang around as long as he wanted.

The forced retirement deal was a Syverud thing. I believe that Gross "resigned" the same day the JB retirement news came out in 2015.

 

[Jake]

Let's get something straight. I was a defender of JB long before it became popular to be a supporter. Back when the letters to the editor after the Navy loss in the tournament were demanding his firing. Back when he couldn't win in the tournament. So I take a back seat to no one in terms of having defended the guy. So right off. You are wrong. Second, JB garnered a lot of support from rich donors and B.O.T. who were fan boys of his. JB always has known who to be nice to and who to treat like they were crap on his shoe. It wasn't optics that kept JB. It was politics. And we are now reaping what that has sown. JB screwed the school and basically forced Hopkins out. Did you know that when the plan was in place, and Hop planned on being the coach, JB refused to let him recruit the guys that he wanted to have play for him? Whose fault was that. That JB made it next to impossible for Hop not to take the Washington job. I can call a spade a spade without any hero worship.

This….we had SGA all wrapped up and JB said no. It was done all set to commit and JB wouldn’t sign off on it.

JB wouldn’t sign off on recruiting trips for Hop. Essentially cut him off at his knees.

It was baaaaad.

But I’m not saying that what happened then is why we’re where we are now. However, the road Wildhack had to navigate was filled with landmines.

 

[Jake]

I’ve read very little of this thread, but I assume it’s a lot of venting. Barring something catastrophic, Red is getting year 3. But if there’s no tournament in March of 26, it’s over and I would wager that we’re going outside the SU tree for replacement. Looking for a Fran Brown type for hoops.

 

[SUFan44]

I’ve read very little of this thread, but I assume it’s a lot of venting. Barring something catastrophic, Red is getting year 3. But if there’s no tournament in March of 26, it’s over and I would wager that we’re going outside the SU tree for replacement. Looking for a Fran Brown type for hoops.

What is catastrophic? Less than 10 wins? I’m not seeing four more on the calendar.

What I have seen lately is catastrophic.

 

[Dr. Bill]

While debating how badly JB screwed the program with his last decade of stubbornness is fun and all… the real question remains how much rope does Autry have and when can I start watching college hoops again?

fwiw… more often than not companies make continuity hires because it’s usually the path of least resistance. Not saying that’s the tight or wrong decisio, it’s human nature.

Of all the blue bloods… I think Kansas did a great job going outside the program to replace Roy Williams with Bill Self and Kentucky with Pitino and then Calipari. Most others went with someone from the ”family”. The other issue here is how few really talented coaches have come from the JB tree.

JB left the program in terrible shape, I hope all on this thread can acknowledge that. The situation with Hop was a damn mess! JB should have never been extended in my opinion. So, when he was finally forced to retire...and I think he was forced, it left us in the current state we find ourselves in...There is debate over should we have selected Red over GMac... Too early to tell in my book. For Coach Autry to be successful, he is going to need to do several things: 1) He needs more than 2 years to fix this mess 2) He needs to garner some financial support from some wealthy alumni Syracuse supporters - Adam W. comes to mind
3) He needs to recruit upper end 4 and 5 star talent and in today's world, that takes money!!
He has a really nice class coming in next year, which is a great start. He needs to fill in some serious gaps with some real Transfer Portal talent at the point and the post. Just an example: name me one player on this current roster as talented as: Michael Carter Williams, Dion Waiters, Scoop Jardin, Brandon Trisch, Malachi, Sherman Douglas, Tyler Lydon? You see where I am going with this. And some of these players named were on the same Team!! It is the Jimmies and the Joes not the X's and O's that win games and we don't Have any Jimmies or Joes!

 

[HRE Otto IV]

While debating how badly JB screwed the program with his last decade of stubbornness is fun and all… the real question remains how much rope does Autry have and when can I start watching college hoops again?

fwiw… more often than not companies make continuity hires because it’s usually the path of least resistance. Not saying that’s the tight or wrong decisio, it’s human nature.

Of all the blue bloods… I think Kansas did a great job going outside the program to replace Roy Williams with Bill Self and Kentucky with Pitino and then Calipari. Most others went with someone from the ”family”. The other issue here is how few really talented coaches have come from the JB tree.

He took over a team with enough talent to make the NCAAT and failed to make the NCAAT. Then in year 2 he will give us (best case) our worst team since 1969, worst case since 1962. There is zero justification to bring him back.

 

[cusefan88]

I’ve read very little of this thread, but I assume it’s a lot of venting. Barring something catastrophic, Red is getting year 3. But if there’s no tournament in March of 26, it’s over and I would wager that we’re going outside the SU tree for replacement. Looking for a Fran Brown type for hoops.

Putting aside the Year 3 thing, there's no SU tree really. Hop, Autry, Gmac, and Jason Hart are the only guys. Boeheim coached for almost 50 years. To have only a few guys that could be HCs at any level in D1 tells the story.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I’ve read very little of this thread, but I assume it’s a lot of venting. Barring something catastrophic, Red is getting year 3. But if there’s no tournament in March of 26, it’s over and I would wager that we’re going outside the SU tree for replacement. Looking for a Fran Brown type for hoops.

It'll be empty in the dome next season and I will feel bad for all the kids working in the AD trying to get people to renew their season tickets. If they thought this summer was bad, wait til next year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’ve read very little of this thread, but I assume it’s a lot of venting. Barring something catastrophic, Red is getting year 3. But if there’s no tournament in March of 26, it’s over and I would wager that we’re going outside the SU tree for replacement. Looking for a Fran Brown type for hoops.

This seems catastrophic. We haven’t beat a power conference team. At best this is Scott Shafer level bad. At worst we are bordering on Gerg level bad this year.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Putting aside the Year 3 thing, there's no SU tree really. Hop, Autry, Gmac, and Jason Hart are the only guys. Boeheim coached for almost 50 years. To have only a few guys that could be HCs at any level in D1 tells the story.

Louis Orr was a D1 HC for 14 years.

Wayne Morgan coached for 9 years.

Pitino was an assistant here for two seasons, does he count?

 

[FloridaCuse]

I’ve read very little of this thread, but I assume it’s a lot of venting. Barring something catastrophic, Red is getting year 3. But if there’s no tournament in March of 26, it’s over and I would wager that we’re going outside the SU tree for replacement. Looking for a Fran Brown type for hoops.

Year 3 even if no ACC Tournament? Even if no more wins, or 1 or 2? Or would any of the above be "catastrophic"?

 

[Scooch]

I’ll say once again that I think hiring Autry was the only way to get JB out in a relatively peaceful way, as well as appeasing the boosters and alumni that had become as pro-Boeheim as they were pro-SU.

My feeling has always been that if we went internal, and that internal hire flopped, then the AD would be able to look broadly with his replacement. Since it would have been proven that the Boeheim tree didn’t bear fruit.

I have no illusions that Autry won’t get a third year. He will. But after that, should next year result in no tourney yet again, then we can move on and look externally.

Doing that 2 years ago would have reigned down a sh!!tstorm of epic proportions from said boosters and alumni. And if that outside hire flopped then we’d be in a perpetual cycle of hiring JB guys for several cycles, IMHO.

 

[MSOrange]

This seems catastrophic. We haven’t beat a power conference team. At best this is Scott Shafer level bad. At worst we are bordering on Gerg level bad this year.

Not making the conference tourney when all you have to do is finish in the top 15 out of 18 would be pretty catastrophic in my book. I thought the idea of having to play on Tuesday in the first round would be embarrassing enough, but if we miss the whole thing? Wow!

 

[FloridaCuse]

JB left the program in terrible shape, I hope all on this thread can acknowledge that. The situation with Hop was a damn mess! JB should have never been extended in my opinion. So, when he was finally forced to retire...and I think he was forced, it left us in the current state we find ourselves in...There is debate over should we have selected Red over GMac... Too early to tell in my book. For Coach Autry to be successful, he is going to need to do several things: 1) He needs more than 2 years to fix this mess 2) He needs to garner some financial support from some wealthy alumni Syracuse supporters - Adam W. comes to mind
3) He needs to recruit upper end 4 and 5 star talent and in today's world, that takes money!!
He has a really nice class coming in next year, which is a great start. He needs to fill in some serious gaps with some real Transfer Portal talent at the point and the post. Just an example: name me one player on this current roster as talented as: Michael Carter Williams, Dion Waiters, Scoop Jardin, Brandon Trisch, Malachi, Sherman Douglas, Tyler Lydon? You see where I am going with this. And some of these players named were on the same Team!! It is the Jimmies and the Joes not the X's and O's that win games and we don't Have any Jimmies or Joes!

You still need Xs & Os and we don't have that. I believe there are reports that Syverud banned Adam W.

 

[Jack_Ball]

I’ve read very little of this thread, but I assume it’s a lot of venting. Barring something catastrophic, Red is getting year 3. But if there’s no tournament in March of 26, it’s over and I would wager that we’re going outside the SU tree for replacement. Looking for a Fran Brown type for hoops.

Would catastrophic be about 15% ($5M) drop in revenue this year? That seems to be the pace we are on if attendance numbers dont improve

 

[FloridaCuse]

It'll be empty in the dome next season and I will feel bad for all the kids working in the AD trying to get people to renew their season tickets. If they thought this summer was bad, wait til next year.

It'll be empty this season.

 

[LAorange44]

not getting last and making the conference tourney seems to be limbo championship level of low bars. failure to hit that metric seems pretty catastrophic

 

[cusefan88]

Louis Orr was a D1 HC for 14 years.

Wayne Morgan coached for 9 years.

Pitino was an assistant here for two seasons, does he count?

So 6 guys. Boeheim is legendary but let's not pretend a lot of assistants and ex-players became successful under him in the coaching world.

Orr probably the most successful and his best run was over 20 years ago.

 

[dasher]

Louis Orr was a D1 HC for 14 years.

Wayne Morgan coached for 9 years.

Pitino was an assistant here for two seasons, does he count?

Brendon Malone coached in college and the NBA

 

[Scooch]

So 6 guys. Boeheim is legendary but let's not pretend a lot of assistants and ex-players became successful under him in the coaching world.

Orr probably the most successful and his best run was over 20 years ago.

I find “coaching trees” to be one of the stupider tropes in sports. Guys succeed, or don’t, on their own abilities. And some “legends” were greatly helped by their assistants. See: Parcells, Bill.

 

[5OutFred]

Despite Devo's comments, the CBB media also have eyes and can tell Red isn't getting it done. Expect this narrative to grow.

 

[Jake]

What is catastrophic? Less than 10 wins? I’m not seeing four more on the calendar.

What I have seen lately is catastrophic.

Wildhack is a “jimmys & joes” kinda guy. If we have defections and the recruiting class falls apart including Kiyan backing out, I think that’s catastrophic.

He’s going to give his coaches a chance to get their players in place. I don’t think this year’s record is going to be enough to get him to pull the trigger.

I would think the evaluation miss at PG is very concerning to JW- but I think he believes Kline can help in that area this offseason.

If he doesn’t think Red can evaluate, attract and retain quality players, then he’ll make a move.

 

[Dr. Bill]

You still need Xs & Os and we don't have that. I believe there are reports that Syverud banned Adam W.

Adam W., Banned? Why? SEC Billionaires , Walmart Heirs, Texas Big Oil men, NIke founder's Money, Never heard of a school banning a mega donor , but Cuse...