Wildhack is on the Clock

[baggerbob]

JB left the program in terrible shape, I hope all on this thread can acknowledge that. The situation with Hop was a damn mess! JB should have never been extended in my opinion. So, when he was finally forced to retire...and I think he was forced, it left us in the current state we find ourselves in...There is debate over should we have selected Red over GMac... Too early to tell in my book. For Coach Autry to be successful, he is going to need to do several things: 1) He needs more than 2 years to fix this mess 2) He needs to garner some financial support from some wealthy alumni Syracuse supporters - Adam W. comes to mind
3) He needs to recruit upper end 4 and 5 star talent and in today's world, that takes money!!
He has a really nice class coming in next year, which is a great start. He needs to fill in some serious gaps with some real Transfer Portal talent at the point and the post. Just an example: name me one player on this current roster as talented as: Michael Carter Williams, Dion Waiters, Scoop Jardin, Brandon Trisch, Malachi, Sherman Douglas, Tyler Lydon? You see where I am going with this. And some of these players named were on the same Team!! It is the Jimmies and the Joes not the X's and O's that win games and we don't Have any Jimmies or Joes!

Unfortunately Adam was the one who kept Fair here for the women's team, even after he was pushed out.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Brendon Malone coached in college and the NBA

Troy Weaver went the NBA scout / admin path.

 

[5OutFred]

Wildhack is a “jimmys & joes” kinda guy.

He’s going to give his coaches a chance to get their players in place. I don’t think this year’s record is going to be enough to get him to pull the trigger.

The frustration from fans comes in that this sentiment is understood, but the starting lineup also features two McDAA, along with a Center that was paid big money, and that lineup is barely going to crack double digit wins.

So even if the talent is in place, what evidence is there to suggest the coaching is near capable of utilizing that talent on the court effectively? And then asking fans/donors to pony up for it...

 

[Cuse1055]

This….we had SGA all wrapped up and JB said no. It was done all set to commit and JB wouldn’t sign off on it.

JB wouldn’t sign off on recruiting trips for Hop. Essentially cut him off at his knees.

It was baaaaad.

But I’m not saying that what happened then is why we’re where we are now. However, the road Wildhack had to navigate was filled with landmines.

SGA would have been perfect for the zone too. I’m guessing JB was putting all his eggs in the Quade Green basket (who ironically ended up with Hop).

 

[SUFan44]

Wildhack is a “jimmys & joes” kinda guy. If we have defections and the recruiting class falls apart including Kiyan backing out, I think that’s catastrophic.

He’s going to give his coaches a chance to get their players in place. I don’t think this year’s record is going to be enough to get him to pull the trigger.

I would think the evaluation miss at PG is very concerning to JW- but I think he believes he’s Kline can help in that area this offseason.

If he doesn’t think Red can evaluate, attract and retain quality players, then he’ll make a move.

If Wildhack is a 'jimmy's and joes' guy, then he also needs to evolve with the times.

Rosters turn over at a much faster rate than years past. Allowing coaches time to get 'their players in place' is fine, but the time it takes to do so is expedited.

Whether fair or not, two years is an eternity to get your roster right. This IS his roster. The one that he chose based on what he had surrounded himself with.

I know he's getting a third year. And despite my beating of the drum against it, I am interested to see how it plays out in the offseason -- if Freeman & Moore stay to play with Anthony & White, plus the Australian PG, that's a good young group of five.

But there are two concerns I have with this approach:

- College basketball is old now. There are virtually zero teams that have the roster composition we are looking at next year that are Top 25 caliber unless you literally have Duke's recruiting class. Which we simply do not.

- Nothing will completely make up for being an incompetent X's & O's coach, especially when you are surrounded with non-descript assistants. Autry has struggled mightily in this area and it is clear as day.

Long winded way of saying -- I hope he's able to figure it out, but this year has not been good and I'm not sure I trust that he has the chops. Never did. Between his in-game coaching decisions to his communications skills, what I see is not a high-level Division I head coach.

We don't have the time as a program to allow him an opportunity to learn on the job and even if we did, there are enough signs to me that it isn't going to work.

 

[gmoney44]

Despite Devo's comments, the CBB media also have eyes and can tell Red isn't getting it done. Expect this narrative to grow.

I’ll listen to Devo on playing with confidence or taking it to the hole. Everything else out of his pie hole is just noise.

 

[Red2003]

Time to give Autry the ultimatum. Make the ACC Tournament or else. That's where we're at, if he can't do that he should be dismissed at end of year.

Right now there are 2 ACC teams that don't even have head coaches. Laranga and Bennett straight up just quit this year out of nowhere. Plenty of ACC teams that just have no where near the talent. Just finish 15th in the ACC that's it, not a tough ask.

Donors, BoT, Melo, LaLa, Devo, Julie Boeheim, Fab Melo, take your pick, all of them need to tell Wildhack its time to sit Autry down and give him the talk. The ACCT as a non-negotiable must do or that's your ballgame

This makes it easy. Make the ACCT or else see you later.

*I do not want him back but this is the off ramp to avoid destroying what little is left of the Orange jersey.

 

[gmoney44]

Wildhack is a “jimmys & joes” kinda guy. If we have defections and the recruiting class falls apart including Kiyan backing out, I think that’s catastrophic.

He’s going to give his coaches a chance to get their players in place. I don’t think this year’s record is going to be enough to get him to pull the trigger.

I would think the evaluation miss at PG is very concerning to JW- but I think he believes he’s Kline can help in that area this offseason.

If he doesn’t think Red can evaluate, attract and retain quality players, then he’ll make a move.

It’s a galactically bad idea to give Red another year so I’m fairly confident SU will retain him.

 

[Jake]

SGA would have been perfect for the zone too. I’m guessing JB was putting all his eggs in the Quade Green basket (who ironically ended up with Hop).

Yup. Exactly. Hop wanted to take the sure thing.

 

[FloridaCuse]

Hop left one year before JB was supposed to retire.

Instead of holding JB to his exit date, Wildhack let him hang around as long as he wanted.

The forced retirement deal was a Syverud thing. I believe that Gross "resigned" the same day the JB retirement news came out in 2015.

Is it publicly known why Chancellor Syverud forced JB's retirement?

 

[baggerbob]

Time to give Autry the ultimatum. Make the ACC Tournament or else. That's where we're at, if he can't do that he should be dismissed at end of year.

Right now there are 2 ACC teams that don't even have head coaches. Laranga and Bennett straight up just quit this year out of nowhere. Plenty of ACC teams that just have no where near the talent. Just finish 15th in the ACC that's it, not a tough ask.

Donors, BoT, Melo, LaLa, Devo, Julie Boeheim, Fab Melo, take your pick, all of them need to tell Wildhack its time to sit Autry down and give him the talk. The ACCT as a non-negotiable must do or that's your ballgame

This makes it easy. Make the ACCT or else see you later.

*I do not want him back but this is the off ramp to avoid destroying what little is left of the Orange jersey.

Glad someone else said that, if you can't be among the top 15 teams in a bad conference, you shouldn't be the coach at Syracuse University. Either he gets in the league tournament and wins 1 game or he should be gone.

 

[Orangezoo]

I am involved in c-suite / executive level decisions involving hiring / firing on an ongoing basis.

This is a performance driven profession. Performance matters. And should, more than relational considerations and " nice to have" evaluative criteria.

"Appeasement" is generally not an effective strategy.

In fairness these days there is way too much difficulty getting consensus and getting dead weight at higher level positions out or “moved”. It’s a problem not unique to what we are seeing here at SU.

 

[Red2003]

Glad someone else said that, if you can't be among the top 15 teams in a bad conference, you shouldn't be the coach at Syracuse University. Either he gets in the league tournament and wins 1 game or he should be gone.

It just hit me like a truck this morning that there are 2 ACC teams that effectively do not have coaches this year and there's a good chance our "Head Coach" may not do better than them in the ACC this year.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Is it publicly known why Chancellor Syverud forced JB's retirement?

Because we were about to get hit with MAJOR NCAA sanctions, and SU was trying to lessen the blow. We took a self-imposed tournament ban in 2015 (not that we were making the tournament after CMC tore his ACL anyways).

We still got dinged with 4 years of scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions, and JB lost 101 wins.

It's been public knowledge for 10 years.

 

[BlackSquirrels]

Despite Devo's comments, the CBB media also have eyes and can tell Red isn't getting it done. Expect this narrative to grow.

Yup. I'm trying to eliminate everything that's rumor or speculation behind the scenes. Just looking at things that occur on the court and are said publicly, here are some factors that I can't get over.

The transition defense was a joke last year. I figured that it might get better this year without Mintz constantly gambling for steals in the backcourt. I was wrong. Even with Chris Bell getting less minutes this year, the transition D is abominable. This is a huge indicator that the coaches can't get the players to buy in.

Autry spent last year talking about how he wants to play fast and put pressure on the opposition, and then made Lampkin his first priority in the portal last offseason. That never made sense.

The offense Autry is running this year does not fit the talent level of the team. There are a few major opponents where Lampkin or Starling might have a mismatch, but nobody is good enough to force double teams or take over games consistently.

Then on a micro level, the closing minutes of the game at Notre Dame were another huge indicator that something is off. ND got two wide open threes for Shrewsbury off simple actions. Then, on a crucial possession in the closing minute for Syracuse when we needed bucket, preferably quickly, we ended up with Lucas Taylor taking a prayer of a runner as the shot clock expired, and we had TOs to burn.

 

[Orangezoo]

Wildhack is a “jimmys & joes” kinda guy. If we have defections and the recruiting class falls apart including Kiyan backing out, I think that’s catastrophic.

He’s going to give his coaches a chance to get their players in place. I don’t think this year’s record is going to be enough to get him to pull the trigger.

I would think the evaluation miss at PG is very concerning to JW- but I think he believes Kline can help in that area this offseason.

If he doesn’t think Red can evaluate, attract and retain quality players, then he’ll make a move.

The one big question I have is if we had a player like Sadiq at the 3, a more athletic better defending 5 and a capable PG like the Aussie this year - how much better are we with Red at the helm? The issues on both ends from all 3 of those positions is probably/might be at least 10 pts a game net or more. That said it’s so hard to assess if the failures of those three are also in scheme and how they are being coached. Is it purely their weaknesses or is it also in large part to this staff?

I lean towards you could create the hypothetical swap and we end up a 16 win team still vs anywhere near a tourney team but that’s just me.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Wildhack is a “jimmys & joes” kinda guy. If we have defections and the recruiting class falls apart including Kiyan backing out, I think that’s catastrophic.

He’s going to give his coaches a chance to get their players in place. I don’t think this year’s record is going to be enough to get him to pull the trigger.

I would think the evaluation miss at PG is very concerning to JW- but I think he believes Kline can help in that area this offseason.

If he doesn’t think Red can evaluate, attract and retain quality players, then he’ll make a move.

I don’t think it’s just PG, quite frankly every portal player has been disappointing. The NIL ROI is catastrophic, and if I was a big booster and saw what my NIL dollars went too, I wouldnt be jumping to give more. Its not hey we are a bubble team, and losing JJ for a
Month cost us a tournament game we just are flat out terrible. We have a lot more of the season to play out, and maybe the team will somehow get to 12-13 wins but we statistically played pretty well yesterday and lost by 16, so I have little confidence that will transpire. I’m not sure what will happen with red, but revenue generation, NIL contribution and donor angst will determine red fate. The question I’m asking what the true cost of keeping red another year and can any of that risk be mitigated. Is the long term upside of keeping him worth it.

 

[CuseCPT]

Adam W., Banned? Why? SEC Billionaires , Walmart Heirs, Texas Big Oil men, NIke founder's Money, Never heard of a school banning a mega donor , but Cuse...

You'll notice a lot of the insiders don't really seem to upset by that turn of events. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[phil77]

This is Syracuse you have had 2 years to build your roster. You have hand picked the current roster only 1 hold over from JB teams who you made a priority to stay. You have zero game plan on offense or defense side of ball. You get out coached by every opponent we face. You team looks unprepared and unorganized every game. You are a bottom 5 P4 team in nation. You are on pace to be the worst Syracuse team in our history. You are on pace to not make the ACC tournament not the NCAA tournament the ACC tournament. Our attendance is going down the drain. You are losing the casual fan as well as die hards. All these things are currently true.

All that and you are going to bring him back for another year. Basically Red is one of the worst coaches in the nation at a P4 level. And we are going to bring him back because he has a decent freshman class coming in when the landscape of how to win in colllege hoops have changed.

 

[Bball44]

Time to give Autry the ultimatum. Make the ACC Tournament or else. That's where we're at, if he can't do that he should be dismissed at end of year.

Right now there are 2 ACC teams that don't even have head coaches. Laranga and Bennett straight up just quit this year out of nowhere. Plenty of ACC teams that just have no where near the talent. Just finish 15th in the ACC that's it, not a tough ask.

Donors, BoT, Melo, LaLa, Devo, Julie Boeheim, Fab Melo, take your pick, all of them need to tellF Wildhack its time to sit Autry down and give him the talk. The ACCT as a non-negotiable must do or that's your ballgame

This makes it easy. Make the ACCT or else see you later.

*I do not want him back but this is the off ramp to avoid destroying what little is left of the Orange jersey.

Fab Melo?

 

[FloridaCuse]

Because we were about to get hit with MAJOR NCAA sanctions, and SU was trying to lessen the blow. We took a self-imposed tournament ban in 2015 (not that we were making the tournament after CMC tore his ACL anyways).

We still got dinged with 4 years of scholarship reductions and recruiting restrictions, and JB lost 101 wins.

It's been public knowledge for 10 years.

Thanks. You say we were about to be hit with Major NCAA sanctions. Are you referring to what happened in 2015, which most of us know about? Or did something happen in March 2023 to percipitate the Chancellor forcing JB to retire then? If not, why did the Chancellor wait 8 years to do it?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Thanks. You say we were about to be hit with Major NCAA sanctions. Are you referring to what happened in 2015, which most of us know about? Or did something happen in March 2023 to percipitate the Chancellor forcing JB to retire then? If not, why did the Chancellor wait 8 years to do it?

I'm referring to the forced retirement plan where JB would have stepped down in April 2018.

JB left in 2023 because we sucked and the thrill was gone. And because Juli told him to.

 

[FloridaCuse]

I'm referring to the forced retirement plan where JB would have stepped down in April 2018.

JB left in 2023 because we sucked and the thrill was gone. And because Juli told him to.

Oh, Ok. Thanks.

 

[kingtidge]

I don’t think it’s just PG, quite frankly every portal player has been disappointing. The NIL ROI is catastrophic, and if I was a big booster and saw what my NIL dollars went too, I wouldnt be jumping to give more. Its not hey we are a bubble team, and losing JJ for a
Month cost us a tournament game we just are flat out terrible. We have a lot more of the season to play out, and maybe the team will somehow get to 12-13 wins but we statistically played pretty well yesterday and lost by 16, so I have little confidence that will transpire. I’m not sure what will happen with red, but revenue generation, NIL contribution and donor angst will determine red fate. The question I’m asking what the true cost of keeping red another year and can any of that risk be mitigated. Is the long term upside of keeping him worth it.

The portal business has been catastrophic if we are honest.

It started with the first transfers in.

We replaced Jesse with McClod... A player that isn't even capable for 5 mins a game evidently, let alone a starter. A project backup at best. We've collected a lot of these project centers over the years, so nothing new there, but clearly not good enough.

Westery - good for ZERO mins a game and ZERO ROI... Can't play and is a headcase evidently. Hopefully he's taking advantage of the schollie and getting his degree, since he can't play basketball anymore.

Then you add in the latest...

Lampkin - a backup at best given his inability at defense, rebounding, and fitness issues. Then the double top-offs for NIL he demanded that we had to pay (once he had us over the barrel and we had worked no other viable alternatives...)

Carlos - low major PG that's too slow and not skilled enough for this level. Staff was reportedly thrilled when he signed and thought he'd be more than capable at this level. Complete talent eval failure and 110% whiff.

Cuffes is ok as a backup guard (same for Davis) for limited minutes but given how bad Carlos is, Cuffe simply needs to play more by necessity. Taylor also an ok role player off the bench. The only "OK" business.

But NIL whales are right to be displeased with this overall business.

It's downright awful business.

Coaching deficiencies aside, it's good Kline is now on board at this point because this staff can't pick portal talent.

 

[cusefan88]

I actually think if Red is gone and they hire someone with zero SU ties (as they should), I could see Hop returning as an assistant to finish out his career.