Wildhack

[elimunelson]

She 100% should be making less than gait was his last year. She’s what? 27 years old and never was a HC?

I'll take the L on this one. I didn't realize Gary was HC for 15 years.

My entire point was it's non revenue and how flexible can you get with a gaudy HC salary for something that is a loss leader. If the x country coach was there for 50 years i would hope there's a cap to the largesse there as well.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'll take the L on this one. I didn't realize Gary was HC for 15 years.

My entire point was it's non revenue and how flexible can you get with a gaudy HC salary for something that is a loss leader. If the x country coach was there for 50 years i would hope there's a cap to the largesse there as well.

I think the syracuse women's lax has some donors. Probably the reason they got their locker rooms etc.

Again, people who donate can donate where the want

 

[elimunelson]

I think the syracuse women's lax has some donors. Probably the reason they got their locker rooms etc.

Again, people who donate can donate where the want

I think that's great and if that is the case, bravo.

I was wrong on the salary discrepancy. I learned something here. I own that.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Gary Gait as women's lacrosse coach was at one point the fourth highest paid employee of Syracuse University. Yes, that should fly. It's not because Kayla is a woman. It's because Gait was being paid a stupidly inflated salary.

That's something Gross did across the board -- spend wildly for name coaches without guarantees of results. Gross also screwed up the entire AD -- mismanaged fundraising, overspent in key areas and drove competent people away. He did decades worth of damage.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Dovetailing off this

Anyone think it's time to move on from Pete Sala and Tom Forgione?

Pete is retiring once the Dome project is complete. I would expect once new seats are in.

 

[DPCuse]

Pete is retiring once the Dome project is complete. I would expect once new seats are in.

What a job Pete has done. And most of it was done behind the scenes and taken for granted.

 

[richmondcuse03]

What a job Pete has done. And most of it was done behind the scenes and taken for granted.

Agree. Pretty sure he's worked a few more extra years than he even planned. He was always super nice to us as students on the hill. went out of the way to give time to student reporters on Dome related stories too. Nobody has worked harder than Pete.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

That's something Gross did across the board -- spend wildly for name coaches without guarantees of results. Gross also screwed up the entire AD -- mismanaged fundraising, overspent in key areas and drove competent people away. He did decades worth of damage.

Our sports were more successful across the board. They have gone to crap under the current leadership.

 

[Scooch]

Our sports were more successful across the board. They have gone to crap under the current leadership.

Correlation does not equal causation.

 

[elimunelson]

The athletic dept does things that joe fan can't distill into "success or failure" IMO.

I can't grade Wildhack on like 85% of his job performance because I have no idea how things really are at Manley Field House. He's got to hire coaches and they coach. To some extent that's his score card and I get that part of it. But the other part of the job where he is running a dept of 100s of people and get them to do the job the right way, i have no idea. How he's fundraising, don't know at all other than what you guys say.

The next hire for football will def lay at the feet of JW and it's something we can judge him on how it is handled, the thought process, the professionalism, etc. I would assume he's weighing the professionalism part right now with letting dino finish the season.

 

[orangecuse]

15-20 years seems crazy to me. Actually, it’s preposterous. There are people who launch, build and sell wildly successful companies in far less than 15 years. They’re not “seasoned”? Whatever that’s supposed to mean, anyway.

Anyone is free criticize Wildhack. But I find the suggestion that he’s some kind of newbie rube to be silly at this point. He’s been in the job for 7 years. People may not like what he’s doing, but he knows what he’s doing.

This appears to have struck a nerve with you. The only one suggesting he's some kind of "newbie rube" is you, and your own thinking.

The most critical part of the AD is the stewardship of the revenue sports, or so I've read here repeatedly over the years. He made his first revenue sports hire (as an AD) with Red for hoops in March, so it's a TBD how good that is as there isn't any data yet on results, etc., which is what ultimately matters. And, for football, the most important revenue sport of any P5 level program is also TBD as well, as he hasn't ever hired one yet in his capacity as an AD.

Furthermore, interestingly, the point you have focused on (only quoting that minute part of that initial post versus in its entirety, etc.) wasn't the crux of the post to begin with. It was that, IMO, I didn't think Wildhack had his particular man in mind. And, that again IMO, he seems as a path of least resistance type guy, and rolls with the better the devil you know versus the devil you don't. I've drawn this view based upon what he has done to date relative to his SU hirings in men's lax and men's hoops, both SU alums already on the Syracuse payroll.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Our sports were more successful across the board. They have gone to crap under the current leadership.

Based on what metrics? On a cursory glance, the average Director's Cup standings look largely the same (and largely driven by one off performances by non-rev teams going deep into championships). Gross probably has a slight edge here based on a quick search but his earlier years were way worse. He definitely invested a TON into non-rev sports though and that's been a mess that's had to be cleaned up for years.

Gross gets a National Title for field hockey and cross country (technically occurred after he left but he hired the coaches). Of course, there was the famous women's tennis disaster of overpaying a fortune for a terrible coach. He hired Hillsman (everyone likes to blame Wildhack for the end there and maybe that's fair but Gross deserves some blame too). McIntyre gross hired but that was obvious hire to anyone. And the title occurred under wildhack.

Based on the director's cup standings, they have NOT gone to crap though.
Crap was the 100+ standings in the mid 2000s...

I agree with others that it's impossible to judge an AD based on just wins/losses. They do a lot of management stuff we never see so I'm jaded by what I know about Gross and Wildhack.

 

[Scooch]

It was that, IMO, I didn't think Wildhack had his particular man in mind. And, that again IMO, he seems as a path of least resistance type guy, and rolls with the better the devil you know versus the devil you don't. I've drawn this view based upon what he has done to date relative to his SU hirings in men's lax and men's hoops, both SU alums already on the Syracuse payroll.

I posted what I did because I disagree with your premise -- one you supported by saying that 99% of experienced ADs would already have a candidate in mind.

No one has any clue what Wildhack has in mind. And there's no parallel to the current football situation with hoops. What you call "path of least resistance" is what someone else might call "succession planning".

If you think that Wildhack has seen things transpire the way they have for football since 2021 and has not both thought through, and made active discreet inquiries, about potential successors then I don't know what to tell you. Even if he does have a "particular man in mind" there are a million reasons why hiring that particular person may not happen.

I feel like some people are getting really preemptively angry about something that hasn't happened yet. If we end up not firing Dino then I'll grab the pitchfork and torch along everyone else.

 

[orange44]

I posted what I did because I disagree with your premise -- one you supported by saying that 99% of experienced ADs would already have a candidate in mind.

No one has any clue what Wildhack has in mind. And there's no parallel to the current football situation with hoops. What you call "path of least resistance" is what someone else might call "succession planning".

If you think that Wildhack has seen things transpire the way they have for football since 2021 and has not both thought through, and made active discreet inquiries, about potential successors then I don't know what to tell you. Even if he does have a "particular man in mind" there are a million reasons why hiring that particular person may not happen.

I feel like some people are getting really preemptively angry about something that hasn't happened yet. If we end up not firing Dino then I'll grab the pitchfork and torch along everyone else.

Agree. However, I have a gut feeling Dino will not be fired and will be coaching Cuse next year.

 

[orangecuse]

I posted what I did because I disagree with your premise -- one you supported by saying that 99% of experienced ADs would already have a candidate in mind.

No one has any clue what Wildhack has in mind. And there's no parallel to the current football situation with hoops. What you call "path of least resistance" is what someone else might call "succession planning".

If you think that Wildhack has seen things transpire the way they have for football since 2021 and has not both thought through, and made active discreet inquiries, about potential successors then I don't know what to tell you. Even if he does have a "particular man in mind" there are a million reasons why hiring that particular person may not happen.

I feel like some people are getting really preemptively angry about something that hasn't happened yet. If we end up not firing Dino then I'll grab the pitchfork and torch along everyone else.

That "some people" emotion, et al could include yourself based upon your choice of words; "crazy" and "preposterous."

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Based on what metrics? On a cursory glance, the average Director's Cup standings look largely the same (and largely driven by one off performances by non-rev teams going deep into championships). Gross probably has a slight edge here based on a quick search but his earlier years were way worse. He definitely invested a TON into non-rev sports though and that's been a mess that's had to be cleaned up for years.

Gross gets a National Title for field hockey and cross country (technically occurred after he left but he hired the coaches). Of course, there was the famous women's tennis disaster of overpaying a fortune for a terrible coach. He hired Hillsman (everyone likes to blame Wildhack for the end there and maybe that's fair but Gross deserves some blame too). McIntyre gross hired but that was obvious hire to anyone. And the title occurred under wildhack.

Based on the director's cup standings, they have NOT gone to crap though.
Crap was the 100+ standings in the mid 2000s...

I agree with others that it's impossible to judge an AD based on just wins/losses. They do a lot of management stuff we never see so I'm jaded by what I know about Gross and Wildhack.

We are worse, especially women's sports. Here are the current or last ACC standings. Some of these sports we used to be decent at.

Cross Country 4th
Field Hockey tied for next to last
Soccer last by a good amount
Volleyball last and a complete embarrassment
BBall 9th which is below average
Indoor Track 14th (next to last)
Lax tied for 1st
Rowing 2nd
Softball 9th out of 13 schools
Tennis 10th
Outdoor Track last


Men's sports...

Cross Country 2nd
Soccer 3rd in division (won title last year)
Indoor Track 13th
Basketball 8th
Lax tied for last
Outdoor Track 13th
Football last

 

[721Comstock]

We are worse, especially women's sports. Here are the current or last ACC standings. Some of these sports we used to be decent at.

Cross Country 4th
Field Hockey tied for next to last
Soccer last by a good amount
Volleyball last and a complete embarrassment
BBall 9th which is below average
Indoor Track 14th (next to last)
Lax tied for 1st
Rowing 2nd
Softball 9th out of 13 schools
Tennis 10th
Outdoor Track last


Men's sports...

Cross Country 2nd
Soccer 3rd in division (won title last year)
Indoor Track 13th
Basketball 8th
Lax tied for last
Outdoor Track 13th
Football last

Field Hockey = ??? We've been very good there for a while. Wha'appen?
Soccer - Does Coach Mac have a sister??
V-ball = yup. Dreadful.
WBB - trending up.
Indoor/outdoor track - we don't field full teams for any track-related stuff.
The events our athletes actually compete in, we're generally pretty good.

XC & Soccer - both solid.
Indoor/Outdoor Track - see above.
Hoops - TBD.
Lax - the hire made/makes sense, but it's still early...

Football - this is what needs to get addressed and fixed, ASAP.
We're making the investments in infrastructure, the Dome, etc.
Spend the $ needed to replace Dino w a quality winning coach.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Field Hockey = ??? We've been very good there for a while. Wha'appen?
Soccer - Does Coach Mac have a sister??
V-ball = yup. Dreadful.
WBB - trending up.
Indoor/outdoor track - we don't field full teams for any track-related stuff.
The events our athletes actually compete in, we're generally pretty good.

XC & Soccer - both solid.
Indoor/Outdoor Track - see above.
Hoops - TBD.
Lax - the hire made/makes sense, but it's still early...

Football - this is what needs to get addressed and fixed, ASAP.
We're making the investments in infrastructure, the Dome, etc.
Spend the $ needed to replace Dino w a quality winning coach.

Field hockey appears to be a one year blip. They started off this year with high expectations. They have a good coach and do a solid job. Not worried about them.

 

[elimunelson]

Agree. However, I have a gut feeling Dino will not be fired and will be coaching Cuse next year.

well if we win out you may have a gut that's right.

I think Dino is done because A) we don't have a qb right now who can throw and B) we need to win two in a row. I think he'll get them to play as hard as possible and I expect two spirited contests. Ultimately we're going to end up 4-8 or 5-7 and off to the races.

 

[Cusefan69]

I think Dino will also be out because like it or not the end of season slide right before new seating and price increases will act like a drag on renewals for next season and I would think that the AD could potentially jump start rewewals with a new hire. Then again if the new hire isn't sexy enough, it could actually turn out worse. Interesting times.

 

[Jack_Ball]

I was listening to pregame on Friday while driving down to Philly and they gave crazy stat. For all Fall sports Syracuse has only won 2 conference home games which seems abysmal

 

[orange44]

well if we win out you may have a gut that's right.

I think Dino is done because A) we don't have a qb right now who can throw and B) we need to win two in a row. I think he'll get them to play as hard as possible and I expect two spirited contests. Ultimately we're going to end up 4-8 or 5-7 and off to the races.

Hope you are right but 6-6 he stays!

 

[tombacuse]

Turned over two of the big three (this one matters a lot clearly) and is dumping a quarter of a billion into facilities ignored for generations.

He didn't have to really look for either coach however, and his record for the big 3 up there is awful. It just would not fly at some of the places that care about winning. I cant point to anything on a field/court that has improved since he arrived.. its in neutral or reverse.

 

[Scooch]

That "some people" emotion, et al could include yourself based upon your choice of words; "crazy" and "preposterous."

It's all good. I have definitely tired of some folks talking about Wildhack's inexperience. If I overreacted to your "99%" comment then that's why.

Like I said, people are free to criticize the guy up and down. That's part and parcel of the job. I just think that if someone thinks he stinks it's not because of inexperience. Seven years is 7 years.

 

[orangecuse]

It's all good. I have definitely tired of some folks talking about Wildhack's inexperience. If I overreacted to your "99%" comment then that's why.

Like I said, people are free to criticize the guy up and down. That's part and parcel of the job. I just think that if someone thinks he stinks it's not because of inexperience. Seven years is 7 years.

No worries. Of course my 99% was exaggerated for emphasis. Loading the mustard on the dog kind of deal.