Women’s F4/Caitlin Clark

[FRANKIEFAN]

I am an older dude and really think most trash talking and demonstrative behavior is stupid. I understand it is 'part of the game', but to me, it is not the game. I never did it personally, even during pickup games.

So, last night in the LSU / Iowa game the LSU player Angel Reece (known for her trash talking) taunted Caitlin Clark, after the game was decided. She followed her around for about 5 seconds doing the John Cena 'You cannot see me' and pointing to her ring finger.

When asked about it, she said Caitlin had 'disrespected' ... not her, Angel Reece..., but I guess a teammate 'Alexis', and a South Carolina player 'Anita'.

Social Media educated me that Caitlin has done the same thing to other players. There is footage of her doing it against Louisville in the Elite 8. She literally did it for a split second after a shot. Then, in a SC game, she waved off a SC player / wouldn't defend her. Dumb as well, IMO, but less excessive.

Watching on ESPN about it just now and was told to check our bigotry and bias.

I think it is dumb, both players, and also thought Angel Reece's 'retaliation' for Caitlin's disrespect was excessive. Literally following her around? Guess I am just old.

As to bias, probably true. However, if this happened in a men's game, if for example, Jordan did the 'you can't see me' to Charles Oakley for like 5 seconds following him around the court, you know they would be throwing punches by the 1.5th second. Which is why it doesn't happen like that in men's games. Trash talking happens for sure.

Doesn’t happen in the men’s because they are too buddy buddy. Nice to see some heated competition and dislike.

Reese went too far but she had just won a title and got carried away. They clearly wanted to beat Clarke more than Iowa.

Even if she doesn’t do that she’s not gonna be the media darling Clarke is why should she care and avoid being a villain or apologize.

 

[swish7]

Doesn’t happen in the men’s because they are too buddy buddy. Nice to see some heated competition and dislike.

Reese went too far but she had just won a title and got carried away. They clearly wanted to beat Clarke more than Iowa.

Even if she doesn’t do that she’s not gonna be the media darling Clarke is why should she care and avoid being a villain or apologize.

Interesting take, and makes a lot of sense. Kinda like in wrestling, where if you are going to be the heel, you may as well be 100% bought into that.

In her explanation, I just wish Angel would have said that she got a little carried away. Instead, it was like a lot of made up rationale for Caitlin's 'disrespect'.

It seems though that at least from what I have seen today, Angel is quite the media darling.

I do agree that Caitlin was quite the media darling before this game, and will likely continue to be that next year.

 

[Day2]

No it does not. You are choosing to take what you want from it and manipulate the conversation into trying to make me out to be the bad guy. Like usual.

I don't care for any of it these days. The foul line is still end of game. Clark also didn't engage Reese directly so Reese is doing it on her own accord.. like she initiated all game. That said- the reaction in the moment bothered me at that point. Had she let lived and moved on - no one is longer bothered by that moment. Point is she didn't. You are hung up on this being a double standard and yet you are severely stretching that being the case. Try staying within the topic and not overlaying your narrative. We know that is difficult.

Clark is a confident player who talks and has swagger. She also keeps it in the game as that's as far as it needs to go. It's funny you make no mention of how collected she was after losing the game and being chased after for Reese to have a moment. In the heat of the moment many players would snap back and have fair reason to do so.

Did you not concede you would have had a problem with her conduct if it was only the taunt at the foul line and nothing more? I’m not twisting anything if that’s how you feel.

If Clark taunting a Louisville player is OK and Reese taunting Clark with the exact same gesture is not OK, that’s a double standard. By definition.

I’ve already made clear that I understand criticizing Reese for her conduct after the game. There’s no comparison with Clark there. Got it? I’m conceding that part of it is not the same thing.

Having said that, you still seem to have a problem with Reese’s taunt at the foul line as a standalone incident. So you’re going to have to explain why that isn’t a double standard or correct the record. If it’s the latter, great, we don’t have to waste any more time on this. If it’s the former, I’m asking you to explain the difference without bringing up the other incidents, as they are no longer relevant.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Big difference between doing it to your teammates and following a player around intentionally taunting. Love Etan and a lot of the work he's done, but he definitely panders to his base, go read the hate comments against white people on IG of any of his "controversial" posts.

Was he upset at Arinze who used to do that hand face thing too? He never did it to as a personal message to a specific player though. Personally all that stuff is stupid and extraneous to the game anyways. I understood Iowa’s strategy for Clark against SC to double down low not guarding the girl whose stats didn’t previously show her as a 3 point threat - I didn’t agree with Caitlin Clark making the dismissive hand gesture towards her though. That was personal and I thought classless too. As others have pointed out celebrating vs degrading an opponent are two different things. What Reese did was taunting a defeated opponent - classless. Degrading an opponent is the very definition of a lack of sportsmanship. It’s not a black/white thing as Etan seems to want to make everything.

Mulkey always makes these games attracting the attention about her, so personally she isn’t my favorite to cheer for at all. LSU was the better, more rounded team though. That Carson girl, a bench player grad transfer from WVU to LSU should be a top subject but attention seekers like Mulkey and Reese have deflected all the attention. Too bad the attention hasn’t been the play on the court and the players, the strategies but instead the refs, sportsmanship, race and outspoken coaches, media etc taking away from the great basketball we’ve seen that these women do play.

 

[MikeSU02]

Who cares about the taunting? Honestly. If Clark doesn't care, it doesn't matter.

If we're being honest, it actually is pretty embarrassing for Reese and LSU. They just won a title and you are following the GOAT around and then talking about her in your post game presser. This would legitimately be like Draymond following Bron around after the Finals when they won and then Klay talking about him in the presser. Sure, you won. But you aren't the best player, lol. No one is going to argue Reese is as good as Cheryl Miller, Swoops, Taurasi, Stewie, and Clark, etc. She's a level down (even tho she is a freaking baller).

Honestly, part of this is just to keep up the character that she has for NIL stuff. I'm sure it's rooted in her real personality and her passion for playing ball, but let's be honest, they were talking about how the cost was going up when they were on the floor post-game. I mean, her own teammate on LSU makes more than her.

And you know what? Angel, Caitlin, all of them - go get your money. Caitlin has deals with Nike and Goldman, etc. Keep up your swagger and let's run back this match up next year. Throw in UConn into the FF with SC and you could shatter TV records again.

And I'll be totally honest, if we're keeping it on the level, the issue should really be with Mulkey. Her antics are out of control and she is a coach for the love of god. And a coach that is in the HoF and has titles. Can you imagine if JB acted like that? I'm not talking about her politics or her outfits, but she is on the court, throwing a fit, running into refs, griping to refs... ALL GAME.

I dunno, y'all. I get that it might rub some people the wrong way, but Caitlin has swagger. Angel has swagger. It's part of the game and, if anything, LSU looks lame for having Clark live rent-free in their head AFTER A TITLE. But let's give Clark and all the players a bit more credit for being tough mofos and being fine with some junk talk and what not.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I have zero issues with Clark or Reese, but Mulkey is the most unlikeable coach on any level of any sport anywhere. She makes Danny Hurley look like a genuinely nice guy.

 

[BuffOrange]

Yeah he should be nobody's go-to guy for an impartial take on anything race related in sports.

And yet Waters claims he's one of the most insightful/smartest guys ever covered.
There is your so called double standard right there. Imagine our beat writer having Dan Dakich politics and equating a player's intellect with whether they agree with his grift.

 

[rrlbees]

If I’m the LSU team, I’m not too happy with Reese. Not just because of the on court antics but also the post game interviews which she kept doubling down on with her antics with each succeeding interview. She has managed to take all attention away from her team winning a national championship and placed all the attention on herself. Job well done.

 

[swish7]

Just caught highlights of Reese doing the finger and Cena thing on the float in the victory parade, and then heard snippets of her playing the victim in a presser 'y'all want me to fit in the box... i'm too ghetto'

Like, who says that about themselves?

I am too farmer for y'all to handle.

Good lord, get over yourself.

 

[swish7]

Saw on the lax board this video of Trey Deere doing the 'you're just a little baby taunt'. Honestly, I hate this kind of stuff from all players, genders, races, sports.

 

[UpstateSM]

Bomani Jones’ podcast today talking about the game was really good. He spoke about how through his years at ESPN he’s noticed that, for some reason, they are incapable of promoting more than one women’s basketball star at the same time.

The entire weekend was the Caitlin Clark show and if you’re on the opposing team or a fan of them you would be beeeyooond sick of it all.

The podcast was really good and if you’re still thinking about the game today I suggest it. I won’t even touch on the race stuff for a million reasons. Individually someone’s opinion here can have nothing to do with race but on the macro level it is in play to some extent. It was a team of white girls from a Midwest school and a team of black girls from the south.

The discourse about the women’s tournament has been really fun and men’s March madness could take more than a few pages from their book.

 

[Orangezoo]

Did you not concede you would have had a problem with her conduct if it was only the taunt at the foul line and nothing more? I’m not twisting anything if that’s how you feel.

If Clark taunting a Louisville player is OK and Reese taunting Clark with the exact same gesture is not OK, that’s a double standard. By definition.

I’ve already made clear that I understand criticizing Reese for her conduct after the game. There’s no comparison with Clark there. Got it? I’m conceding that part of it is not the same thing.

Having said that, you still seem to have a problem with Reese’s taunt at the foul line as a standalone incident. So you’re going to have to explain why that isn’t a double standard or correct the record. If it’s the latter, great, we don’t have to waste any more time on this. If it’s the former, I’m asking you to explain the difference without bringing up the other incidents, as they are no longer relevant.

You are too hung up on the foul line comment. It's simple- in the moment I thought it was classless given Clark never came at Reese the whole game. Reese was piling on from the rest of her crap all game. I'm not cool with Clark doing it to instigate. In the context of this game I thought it was classless in the moment because I saw nothing from Clark at Reese. Pay attention to what I said. Trash talking happens- if it's a back and forth so be it. At the end of the game , where it is unprovoked from that game its excessive. Can you show me where Clark came at Reese this game at all?

I posted that comment in the moment I saw it. Was gonna leave it figuring it was done. Then Reese went nuts about it as bees and others noted the whole following incident. So you are judging my comment, at the moment it happened as a double standard once you have had time to reflect on said past incident. Thus manipulating what I said and breaking it out of context. I'm not cool with Clark doing it unprovoked and unnecessarily as she has done earlier in the year a couple times. Reese wasn't provoked- she had a crappy excuse saying she was disrespected. Had she left it be, my reaction in that moment would have faded but she didn't.

Your double standard is a narrative.

 

[orangefog]

Bomani Jones’ podcast today talking about the game was really good. He spoke about how through his years at ESPN he’s noticed that, for some reason, they are incapable of promoting more than one women’s basketball star at the same time.

The entire weekend was the Caitlin Clark show and if you’re on the opposing team or a fan of them you would be beeeyooond sick of it all.

The podcast was really good and if you’re still thinking about the game today I suggest it. I won’t even touch on the race stuff for a million reasons. Individually someone’s opinion here can have nothing to do with race but on the macro level it is in play to some extent. It was a team of white girls from a Midwest school and a team of black girls from the south.

The discourse about the women’s tournament has been really fun and men’s March madness could take more than a few pages from their book.

You lost me at Bomani Jones.

 

[NKR1978]

Honestly, the fact people are getting so upset is crazy. Clark allowed to do what she wants and she was America's Sweetheart apparently. Angel Reese is awesome. Glad LSU won.

I can imagine saying what she did was silly in the moment, but it has absolutely no bearing on my life and I don't understand why people are so mad. It's easy to see this as a race thing because it's so inconsequential yet people are so mad.

 

[Day2]

I'm not cool with Clark doing it unprovoked and unnecessarily as she has done earlier in the year a couple times.

Pretty sure this is the first time you’ve mentioned this. Maybe I missed it earlier.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Interesting take, and makes a lot of sense. Kinda like in wrestling, where if you are going to be the heel, you may as well be 100% bought into that.

In her explanation, I just wish Angel would have said that she got a little carried away. Instead, it was like a lot of made up rationale for Caitlin's 'disrespect'.

It seems though that at least from what I have seen today, Angel is quite the media darling.

I do agree that Caitlin was quite the media darling before this game, and will likely continue to be that next year.

This can't be bad for ratings at all and these games outdrew anything from the NBA this year.

Also context is pretty important. The big stars in mens college basketball are Zion Williams 1 and done types.

If we are comparing apples to apples just look at what the first NCAA mens basketball player to be drafted this year made headlines for... Taunting vs transporting a gun to the scene of a murder and blocking the victims car so they couldn't escape. But oh no taunting we can't have that...

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Pretty sure this is the first time you’ve mentioned this. Maybe I missed it earlier.

Does it change anything now that I’ve learned that the original Clark face move was in reaction to her opponent talking shyte all game long?

Nahh, never mind. I don’t actually care.

 

[Orangezoo]

Honestly, the fact people are getting so upset is crazy. Clark allowed to do what she wants and she was America's Sweetheart apparently. Angel Reese is awesome. Glad LSU won.

I can imagine saying what she did was silly in the moment, but it has absolutely no bearing on my life and I don't understand why people are so mad. It's easy to see this as a race thing because it's so inconsequential yet people are so mad.

Meh it was unnecessary stupidity and poor sportsmanship. After that it's as important as tonight's men's game... that is not important. It's just a Seinfeld thread at this point... waiting on some news around Jesse, Judah and company.

It was a good break between doing a painful policy audit at work for me. The race stuff is stupid though- if Hurley or one of his kids did the same tonight it would end up a fight and national news just as well. We could use some sportsmanship for a change and not have another thing with stupid arguments and ridiculous assertions of basis on race.

 

[NKR1978]

Meh it was unnecessary stupidity and poor sportsmanship. After that it's as important as tonight's men's game... that is not important. It's just a Seinfeld thread at this point... waiting on some news around Jesse, Judah and company.

It was a good break between doing a painful policy audit at work for me. The race stuff is stupid though- if Hurley or one of his kids did the same tonight it would end up a fight and national news just as well. We could use some sportsmanship for a change and not have another thing with stupid arguments and ridiculous assertions of basis on race.

I actually think there's a lot of reasonableness in this thread, even though I don't agree. Seems that social media is blowing up a lot more than we all are.

 

[BuffOrange]

You lost me at Bomani Jones.

Ha it's so weird he would come up as I was randomly watching a UNLV doc last night. Which was terrific but marred by Bomani saying Bomani things about media bias. Just all very astute given the national fanfare of Duke.

 

[swish7]

This can't be bad for ratings at all and these games outdrew anything from the NBA this year.

Also context is pretty important. The big stars in mens college basketball are Zion Williams 1 and done types.

If we are comparing apples to apples just look at what the first NCAA mens basketball player to be drafted this year made headlines for... Taunting vs transporting a gun to the scene of a murder and blocking the victims car so they couldn't escape. But oh no taunting we can't have that...

If these two face each other in the tourney next year, it would be a bonanza.

The race conversation being jammed down our throats today is a bit much though. Hopefully we wouldn't have to repeat that.

Honestly, never knew Caitlin was a 'trash talker' too. I knew about Angel b/c she promotes it as part of her image. Caitlin I just knew of as a high scorer.

 

[Orangezoo]

If these two face each other in the tourney next year, it would be a bonanza.

The race conversation being jammed down our throats today is a bit much though. Hopefully we wouldn't have to repeat that.

Honestly, never knew Caitlin was a 'trash talker' too. I knew about Angel b/c she promotes it as part of her image. Caitlin I just knew of as a high scorer.

Caitlin isn't a volume trash talker. When she does it- it's called out in a hurry though.

 

[swish7]

I actually think there's a lot of reasonableness in this thread, even though I don't agree. Seems that social media is blowing up a lot more than we all are.

I unintentionally got into it based off a single comment on an instagram video. Its been pretty brutal, kinda entertaining, but brutal. People here kinda know each other a bit. Out there though, its like the old Syracuse dot com days. Its the wild, wild west.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The most predictable thing ever.

How else to keep the clicks going. IMO, if anyone wants to get to a “race” issue, I was shocked by the reference to Reese as the Bayou Barbie.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Come on- you haven't done that in a pickup game? It's asking her to shoot it because if she does she is either proving she can make it or helping me out .

I haven’t waived it off, but I’ve turned my back on a shooter. I have also just stood next to their right side, daring them to try to dribble or shoot left-handed.