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Wow Dino

One thing JB does is press to speed up the game and cause turnovers. He seems to only do it when they are down by a certain margin and needs a spark. I wish he did it more often.
He usually times slowdowns towards the end of a game when we have a lead to milk the clock and limit an opponents offensive possessions. He has some computer in his brain to take into account the score differential, the time remaining, the probability of the opponent’s offense scoring in the time left, his offense not turning it over etc to time these end of game slowdowns.
 
He usually times slowdowns towards the end of a game when we have a lead to milk the clock and limit an opponents offensive possessions. He has some computer in his brain to take into account the score differential, the time remaining, the probability of the opponent’s offense scoring in the time left, his offense not turning it over etc to time these end of game slowdowns.
Gotcha
 
I disagree with almost everything in your first paragraph, and just to reaffirm, I think we're doing the right thing for this season.

I'm not convinced we'll get away with doing it next season. Heck, if we falter and miss a bowl, that could be an argument that it wasn't the right call this season.
Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean he's wrong. You've been preaching the same thing for years, we get it, you don't like meathead football. Even Saban says it's not viable anymore right? Maybe not for winning NCs but it's how we win in the Northeast. Always has been. We go to bowls when we have a back like Tucker, Carter, Reyes, etc and a good defense. Ball control, limit the other team's possessions. I really don't care if you like it or not, we've gone to more bowls with that than we have any other type of offense. Doesn't matter if it's this year, next year, last year, etc. I get it, some people still think we deserve more. Maybe so, but it can't be forced. We need to re-establish a winning tradition even it it's 7-6, 8-5 type of years so we can start recruiting more elite talent. Even with a pass happy offense and a 10 win season we still couldn't recruit stud WRs. I understand what you want, just not sure you can have it.
 
I see no reason why we, as northeastern teams, are relegated to meathead football to be successful. McNabb and Graves were pretty good multi-dimensional QBs who got us a lot of wins, and a lot of them over pretty good teams.

But right now this is our strength and the one SU has to go to to win some games and hope to get to a bowl. Add a couple dynamic receivers, or wait for the development of the young guys in the roster. and in two years we might be an entirely different style.

It’s who we are right now. It’s not necessarily forever.
 
sutomcat incoming with the Cease and Desist
It is okay. People were giving their takes before me and will continue to long after I am gone.

If 181 wants to use it, he (or she) is welcome to do so.
 
I see no reason why we, as northeastern teams, are relegated to meathead football to be successful. McNabb and Graves were pretty good multi-dimensional QBs who got us a lot of wins, and a lot of them over pretty good teams.

But right now this is our strength and the one SU has to go to to win some games and hope to get to a bowl. Add a couple dynamic receivers, or wait for the development of the young guys in the roster. and in two years we might be an entirely different style.

It’s who we are right now. It’s not necessarily forever.
Every time we try to deviate from it we fail. Always for the same reason...we can't attract that type of talent. If Dino freaking Babers coming off a 10 win season with all his charisma and a pass-first offense with guys like AET and Ish breaking every receiving record in SU history still can't bring in top WRs then no one can. It is because we are small, private, and stuck in the 2nd least sunniest city in the country, none of which are going to change. There is nothing about this area that is going to bring kids here other than a great education and our tradition which right now is 4 bowls games in the past two decades.
 
Every time we try to deviate from it we fail. Always for the same reason...we can't attract that type of talent. If Dino freaking Babers coming off a 10 win season with all his charisma and a pass-first offense with guys like AET and Ish breaking every receiving record in SU history still can't bring in top WRs then no one can. It is because we are small, private, and stuck in the 2nd least sunniest city in the country, none of which are going to change. There is nothing about this area that is going to bring kids here other than a great education and our tradition which right now is 4 bowls games in the past two decades.
the 10 win season was with tempo

Both can be successful, obviously.

More possessions = more chances to score for everyone, but also more chances to mess up
Less possession = less chances to score for everyone, but mistakes carry more weight

I like the idea of a mix. Make them prepare for both and time it to get certain personal groupings on the field and take advantage. Running the ball down their throats is demoralizing too. But if we have to pick one, I say we go with what your offensive personnel can do best.
 
Playing fast is fine at times but there is nothing wrong with a little ball control either.
I'm not sure what benefit playing with tempo all the time has anymore. Plenty of teams play with the tempo. It certainly is not unique, or something that shocks teams anymore.
 
Playing fast with a passing QB and multiple receiving weapons - possible. If the offense relies on one RB and a running QB, you almost have to slow the pace.
yup. Tempo will do nothing for a team that is 1 dimensional.
 
I'm not sure what benefit playing with tempo all the time has anymore. Plenty of teams play with the tempo. It certainly is not unique, or something that shocks teams anymore.
It’s not a surprise when teams run tempo any more but it doesn’t mean teams aren’t still effective. Spread offenses is not unique anymore but teams still are successful with it.
 
the 10 win season was with tempo

Both can be successful, obviously.

More possessions = more chances to score for everyone, but also more chances to mess up
Less possession = less chances to score for everyone, but mistakes carry more weight

I like the idea of a mix. Make them prepare for both and time it to get certain personal groupings on the field and take advantage. Running the ball down their throats is demoralizing too. But if we have to pick one, I say we go with what your offensive personnel can do best.
I don't really disagree with what you are saying. Let's talk about that last statement for minute though. That very statement is what has plagued SU football for the past 20 years.

We want to move to a more exciting offense, but we aren't running it, so we can't recruit the guys to play it. So we plug square pegs into round holes so that we can show the recruits what we want to do but all they see is us losing trying to do something we can't. Finally we give up and go back to ball control, tough defense and go back to bowl games. But that's not flashy, and we want more, so we try to adapt a new exciting offense, wash, rinse, repeat.

We just don't get the recruits to switch on the fly and I don't know if we ever will. The one time, ONE time, we had a chance to say hey 'look at us now' i.e. 2018, 10 wins, great offense, we still didn't get the guys. I'm now convinced that maybe we can't.
 
I’ve never heard of meathead football before, but I’m feeling this solid running game, read option w a scrambling QB combined with a nasty 3-3-5 D thing.
 
I’ve never heard of meathead football before, but I’m feeling this solid running game, read option w a scrambling QB combined with a nasty 3-3-5 D thing.
Meathead is a term used by some to define a game style that involves short gains, ball control, and strong defense. Usually results in lower scoring games that have to be grinded out at the end. They use the term meathead due to it's smash mouth nature. You aren't necessarily trying to use fancy playbooks to scheme guys open, you just line up and knock the guy in front of you on their ass.

Su has proven we can recruit great RBs i.e. Mungro, Reyes, Dee Brown, DeLone Carter, Jerome Smith, Tucker, etc. and we can get some pretty good OL here and there. What we haven't proved is that we can recruit top level WRs and when we do they somehow don't live up to the billing...ie. Morant, Harris, Lobdell, Moss, etc. It doesn't mean they are decent or even good WRs but they aren't program changing guys either like some of our RBs over the past 20 years have been.

The one true stud we've had at WR over the past 20 years was Mike Williams and he was discovered by our BB staff. That kills me still to this day.
 
Meathead is a term used by some to define a game style that involves short gains, ball control, and strong defense. Usually results in lower scoring games that have to be grinded out at the end. They use the term meathead due to it's smash mouth nature. You aren't necessarily trying to use fancy playbooks to scheme guys open, you just line up and knock the guy in front of you on their ass.

Su has proven we can recruit great RBs i.e. Mungro, Reyes, Dee Brown, DeLone Carter, Jerome Smith, Tucker, etc. and we can get some pretty good OL here and there. What we haven't proved is that we can recruit top level WRs and when we do they somehow don't live up to the billing...ie. Morant, Harris, Lobdell, Moss, etc. It doesn't mean they are decent or even good WRs but they aren't program changing guys either like some of our RBs over the past 20 years have been.

The one true stud we've had at WR over the past 20 years was Mike Williams and he was discovered by our BB staff. That kills me still to this day.

Oh okay, so it’s a derogatory term for smash mouth football. I’m definitely in the meathead camp then! Thank you for this explanation though I do appreciate it.
 
Every time we try to deviate from it we fail. Always for the same reason...we can't attract that type of talent. If Dino freaking Babers coming off a 10 win season with all his charisma and a pass-first offense with guys like AET and Ish breaking every receiving record in SU history still can't bring in top WRs then no one can. It is because we are small, private, and stuck in the 2nd least sunniest city in the country, none of which are going to change. There is nothing about this area that is going to bring kids here other than a great education and our tradition which right now is 4 bowls games in the past two decades.
Again, I point out that we were great under McNabb and Graves… while not playing meathead football. I’ll add under Don McPherson too. What we did have was dual option QBs. And as has been discussed here many times, a dual QB can compensate for overall squad talent.

I suggest, again, that we are not sentenced to meathead football to be successful. It’s one way. It’s the way we are playing right now. But we have proof that we can win without it.
 
Meathead is a term used by some to define a game style that involves short gains, ball control, and strong defense. Usually results in lower scoring games that have to be grinded out at the end. They use the term meathead due to it's smash mouth nature. You aren't necessarily trying to use fancy playbooks to scheme guys open, you just line up and knock the guy in front of you on their ass.

Su has proven we can recruit great RBs i.e. Mungro, Reyes, Dee Brown, DeLone Carter, Jerome Smith, Tucker, etc. and we can get some pretty good OL here and there. What we haven't proved is that we can recruit top level WRs and when we do they somehow don't live up to the billing...ie. Morant, Harris, Lobdell, Moss, etc. It doesn't mean they are decent or even good WRs but they aren't program changing guys either like some of our RBs over the past 20 years have been.

The one true stud we've had at WR over the past 20 years was Mike Williams and he was discovered by our BB staff. That kills me still to this day.
As money has said - the current system is the same system Dino started with, minus the tempo. He’s always wanted to run the ball well and take shots down the field.

I think the tempo stuff relied on quick reads that once “the tells” were figured out and we couldn’t block - we stopped running.

We’ve had plenty of good WR. It’s the lack of OL development that has hindered Dino, IMO. That would be my focus, meathead or spread or whatever.
 
I'm not sure what benefit playing with tempo all the time has anymore. Plenty of teams play with the tempo. It certainly is not unique, or something that shocks teams anymore.
The good teams have a lot of depth and are well conditioned. If you go tempo a possession here or there it's fine. Doing it every time your just hurting your defense.
 
We finally have an o line that can move the other teams D line. We’d be crazy to throw it and go fast so Tucker would get gassed and have to sub or be used less.

If you plan on going 75 yards for a TD Sean should be 40 of them. Lets say that’s 7 touches/targets. He needs time inbetween.

Also nothing kills a tempo offense like short passes being dropped. Our wrs drop a lot of passes and our QB misses a good amount too. 2nd and 10 is a lot better with a guy like Tucker tho. If we throw on first down we might as well go for 15-20 yards. You don’t need a high percentage throw as much.
 
Again, I point out that we were great under McNabb and Graves… while not playing meathead football. I’ll add under Don McPherson too. What we did have was dual option QBs. And as has been discussed here many times, a dual QB can compensate for overall squad talent.

I suggest, again, that we are not sentenced to meathead football to be successful. It’s one way. It’s the way we are playing right now. But we have proof that we can win without it.
Yeah, Pyle is way over indexing on the importance of running backs to our program.

We've had good running backs when we haven't been good.

We've pretty much always been good when we've had a good QB.

I get it. The overindexing is because Tucker is a generational talent.

But he's not so good he makes historical running backs more important.
 

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