Class of 2023 WR Johntay Cook (TX) TRANSFERRING TO SYRACUSE (5/1/25)

[Idiocuse22&]

Recently we have offerred several players with questionable troubles.
Sometimes you have to look at the individual on a deeper level than barely surface level.
Look at the crime or issues and figure out whats up.
Im all for SU becoming Second Chance U. * sometimes 3rd.
Fran is the right guy to lead that program and I bet most of those players by an impressive margin would find success here and into the future.

 

[dasher]

Not in the traditional sense but it should be. Everyone knows it’s dangerous to drink and drive and some could be killed.

How do we feel about stealing. Of stuff. Not off a person.

 

[dasher]

Recently we have offerred several players with questionable troubles.
Sometimes you have to look at the individual on a deeper level than barely surface level.
Look at the crime or issues and figure out whats up.
Im all for SU becoming Second Chance U. * sometimes 3rd.
Fran is the right guy to lead that program.

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it. Definitely the 3rd. they had a chance. They messed up again? We have thousands of other students at the school we are bringing these guys to school with.

 

[Orangefan1]

In reading more about his situation and I am a believer in second chances for kids at that age, I am skeptical that he hangs on given it sounded like he missed meetings also which sounds like the least of his concerns. He has talent for sure hope he takes this as a fresh start

 

[bnoro]

Ok it’s the same problem a Tennessee faces or an Alabama or Colorado but these teams all look at talent like this. You either have confidence that the coach can minimize the mistakes or he has no control over his locker room and based on recent events I’d say with our program it’s the latter not the former. No one is saying Fran won’t make mistakes to errr is human but he will minimize their impacts better than many. Hell DeBoer can’t keep players out of his daughters DMs … you think that would fly here?

No idea. Fran has been our coach for ONE year. And I don't know how you can say for sure he will minimize impacts better than many.

I'm a huge fan of the guy, but if he was 4-8 last year I think the tone of this argument would be completely different.

 

[kcsu]

Is drunk driving a violent offense? Or reckless driving?

People make mistakes. Some make bad mistakes. I believe very strongly that each person who makes a mistake and is in position to better themselves deserves a chance to do so. Until you have an opportunity to know someone firsthand, understand the situation inside and out vs what is reported in the press i think it is impossible to judge. Form an opinion of course. When you say that you don't want that type of person representing Syracuse I understand. I don't make blanket judgements based on someone's past.

 

[Idiocuse22&]

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it. Definitely the 3rd. they had a chance. They messed up again? We have thousands of other students at the school we are bringing these guys to school with.

With how quick the 3rd offense happened after the 2nd is interesting...Is that a bad sign? Or not? Id say you would have to know details...2 Ozs of weed, just possessing it, id say leave the weed at home buddy amd have them deliver it to you.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I do -- see: the Alton Robinson example above. But I agree 100% that circumstances matter.

Lequint Allen got in a fight, and beat up a guy [who attacked him first, so it was probably self-defense]. Clearly a "violent offense" -- which is the approach that the student judicial process took with Allen.

But that approach was unfair, because of the circumstances of the altercation, and Allen's squeaky clean history prior to that event. And thankfully, he wasn't kicked out of school like the initial process disposition dictated, because it would have been too harsh of a penalty. Context matters.

That's why it isn't as clear cut as the name of the allegation in and of itself should determine the outcome.

I don't agree self defense is a violent offense... starting a fight and finishing it are worlds apart.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Is drunk driving a violent offense? Or reckless driving?

Have you ever driven with alcohol in your system?

 

[dasher]

Have you ever driven with alcohol in your system?

Wrong guy to ask. I never drink. I got drunk (didn't drive) when I was in high school and didn't like it. I am 69 and haven't drank booze since. Next question? By the way, never smoked weed. Or took any other illegal drug. I am reluctant to take pain killers even when prescribed by A dr. and as many on the board know, I had both knee and back issues in my past. None now, thank God.

 

[dasher]

People make mistakes. Some make bad mistakes. I believe very strongly that each person who makes a mistake and is in position to better themselves deserves a chance to do so. Until you have an opportunity to know someone firsthand, understand the situation inside and out vs what is reported in the press i think it is impossible to judge. Form an opinion of course. When you say that you don't want that type of person representing Syracuse I understand. I don't make blanket judgements based on someone's past.

I'm not saying they shouldn't get a second chance. They can get it somewhere else. Now, of course there are degrees of offense. We must be very lucky. We are bringing in a lot of kids in the last few weeks that must be good kids that have just made one mistake. Or, we just want to win and are willing to take a chance.

 

[RF2044]

I don't agree self defense is a violent offense... starting a fight and finishing it are worlds apart.

Sure. But that's not the way the student judicial board [or whatever the hell they are called] saw it. Somebody [who wasn't even an enrolled student] made an accusation that didn't include their culpability in what happened, and the University decided that based upon the "violent offense" nature of the allegation alone, Allen needed to be dismissed, with little regard to the fact pattern of the situation. He got railroaded.

As you seem to be advocating [and we're just having a discussion, IO, not critiquing your opinion], what the person is accused or [or alleged to have done] should be the determinant of whether they deserve a second chance. I'm just advocating peeling back the onion a little more before making that determination.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not saying they shouldn't get a second chance. They can get it somewhere else. Now, of course there are degrees of offense. We must be very lucky. We are bringing in a lot of kids in the last few weeks that must be good kids that have just made one mistake. Or, we just want to win and are willing to take a chance.

Agree with the highlighted section above.

Definitely a bit curious, given DART.

 

[kcsu]

I'm not saying they shouldn't get a second chance. They can get it somewhere else. Now, of course there are degrees of offense. We must be very lucky. We are bringing in a lot of kids in the last few weeks that must be good kids that have just made one mistake. Or, we just want to win and are willing to take a chance.

I dont see it as black and white. Obviously we want to win. Obviously Fran doesnt want to create any negativity around the program. Every kid that you bring into the program is a risk. Some have a great background, havnt made a mistake but might. Others have a checkered past and might do it again. Odds are the kid with a clean background is the better choice but as we all know not always.

 

[sufan59]

I'm not saying they shouldn't get a second chance. They can get it somewhere else. Now, of course there are degrees of offense. We must be very lucky. We are bringing in a lot of kids in the last few weeks that must be good kids that have just made one mistake. Or, we just want to win and are willing to take a chance.

It’s your perspective which is fair. I have to ask, Do you believe JW made the right hire for our head football coach? Because if we had a cookie cutter coach that climbed the traditional ladder, I don’t think we would even look at these guys no matter what the current state of the program was at the time. It’s for sure a risk, it was a risk to hire Fran given that he didn’t match all of the ADs requirements (power conference coordinator). This is for sure a crossroad moment. I’m trusting Fran.

 

[dasher]

It’s your perspective which is fair. I have to ask, Do you believe JW made the right hire for our head football coach? Because if we had a cookie cutter coach that climbed the traditional ladder, I don’t think we would even look at these guys no matter what the current state of the program was at the time. It’s for sure a risk, it was a risk to hire Fran given that he didn’t match all of the ADs requirements (power conference coordinator). This is for sure a crossroad moment. I’m trusting Fran.

Of course. I will also say a lot of things went our way last year. The schedule was good. We won some very close games. 2 in OT. But Fran was the right choice. That doesn't mean he is always right. Nor am I saying I am. It just seems that we are bringing in a lot of character question marks for visits in the last couple of weeks. And I find that troubling. Others don't. I don't have any problem with anyone who thinks differently than I do. However, that respect hasn't been shared with those of us that are worried about this trend.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Of course. I will also say a lot of things went our way last year. The schedule was good. We won some very close games. 2 in OT. But Fran was the right choice. That doesn't mean he is always right. Nor am I saying I am. It just seems that we are bringing in a lot of character question marks for visits in the last couple of weeks. And I find that troubling. Others don't. I don't have any problem with anyone who thinks differently than I do. However, that respect hasn't been shared with those of us that are worried about this trend.

I understand your concern and appreciate it. I trust Fran and JW to make the right decision. I will say I feel like we are trying to upgrade talent and depth with value. It’s like buying the floor model TV, it’s cheaper but has some red flags. If it works great but if doesn’t you could be looking for another TV soon.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Wrong guy to ask. I never drink. I got drunk (didn't drive) when I was in high school and didn't like it. I am 69 and haven't drank booze since. Next question? By the way, never smoked weed. Or took any other illegal drug. I am reluctant to take pain killers even when prescribed by A dr. and as many on the board know, I had both knee and back issues in my past. None now, thank God.

Happy for you, truly. Not everyone has the same resolve or results. In truth, most don't

 

[ImperialOrange]

Sure. But that's not the way the student judicial board [or whatever the hell they are called] saw it. Somebody [who wasn't even an enrolled student] made an accusation that didn't include their culpability in what happened, and the University decided that based upon the "violent offense" nature of the allegation alone, Allen needed to be dismissed, with little regard to the fact pattern of the situation. He got railroaded.

As you seem to be advocating [and we're just having a discussion, IO, not critiquing your opinion], what the person is accused or [or alleged to have done] should be the determinant of whether they deserve a second chance. I'm just advocating peeling back the onion a little more before making that determination.

I'm all for discussions, I just think far too many (not you obviously) like to paint with a broad brush. I appreciate your candor as well, I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything just point out that nobody really knows.

My opinion is, and always has been, I don't know enough to know enough BUT I won't personally write someone off without being fairly certain of details. In these types of cases my own personal lived experiences creep in which can make me stand more for benefit of the doubt.

Add to that one of my big soap issues is the for profit prison industry in this country and I'll at least ask questions

 

[orange126]

Wrong guy to ask. I never drink. I got drunk (didn't drive) when I was in high school and didn't like it. I am 69 and haven't drank booze since. Next question? By the way, never smoked weed. Or took any other illegal drug. I am reluctant to take pain killers even when prescribed by A dr. and as many on the board know, I had both knee and back issues in my past. None now, thank God.

So when you wake up in the morning, that is as good as your going to feel all day?

 

[wfschrec]

No idea. Fran has been our coach for ONE year. And I don't know how you can say for sure he will minimize impacts better than many.

I'm a huge fan of the guy, but if he was 4-8 last year I think the tone of this argument would be completely different.

I can’t say how I would feel if he went 4-8 because he didn’t and it would all be conjecture … however the following situations lead me to believe that he would stick to his principles and do what he felt was best for his team:

Alford
Pena
Watson

Even how he handled the Chestnut situation I felt was solid. If he had multiple incidents go unattended I could see your point but how many of his kids ended up on a police blotter and more importantly has he been willing to cut a guy loose? I think the results so far speak for themselves until shown otherwise.

 

[dasher]

So when you wake up in the morning, that is as good as your going to feel all day?

I hope not

 

[baggerbob]

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with it. Definitely the 3rd. they had a chance. They messed up again? We have thousands of other students at the school we are bringing these guys to school with.

Actually I agree with you on most of the things , but it isn't my call and shouldn't ever be. And because I wasn't there at the time and have no idea of the actual situation, won't make a judgement.
A case where you can make a judgment was Ray Rice when they had video evidence which showed him beating either his wife or girlfriend.

 

[JKinPhilly]

I understand your concern and appreciate it. I trust Fran and JW to make the right decision. I will say I feel like we are trying to upgrade talent and depth with value. It’s like buying the floor model TV, it’s cheaper but has some red flags. If it works great but if doesn’t you could be looking for another TV soon.

Except in this case it might not be a matter of just buying another TV. The floor model might actually set your living room on fire.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I understand your concern and appreciate it. I trust Fran and JW to make the right decision. I will say I feel like we are trying to upgrade talent and depth with value. It’s like buying the floor model TV, it’s cheaper but has some red flags. If it works great but if doesn’t you could be looking for another TV soon.

This is where I net out. I get both sides of the debate. Part that worries me is Fran has a great first year and feels the pressure to keep winning. Does that lead him to lower his standards? Or does it give him overconfidence in his ability to manage these types of kids? He was very focused (rightly so) on getting the culture right. It’s on him to maintain it, which requires being rigid. By all accounts he was very rigid last year. He’s very strict. He may think he can change some of these kids and maybe he will. Or maybe he won’t. But the first time someone violates the culture he has to be firm in the discipline.

As others have said, he also understands the dynamics these kids grow up better than most coaches. He also understands how close a lot of these kids come from doing something very stupid. I heard him talk about the difference between getting in a fight and arrested is often one person (sometimes a coach or other leader) picking up the phone and telling the kid to leave the situation. These kids often grow up in situations that would make most of us on this board weep. The circumstances and details matter more than the headlines.

i will say he and his staff do their diligence on kids so if they’ve met with him and done their homework, they feel confident that they can keep the kid focused and turned around. I don’t see them becoming last chance u though. They care too much about the culture. I’ll wait and see what happens because I don’t know enough to judge in either direction.