WWE Thread

[orangenauburn]

More random weird, “a decade too late” champion….SGT. Slaughter in 1991 or Bob Backlund in 1994?

Absolutely nuts that superstars like Dibiase, Perfect, Razor Ramon, Piper, Rude never held the title in the 90s or ever, but early-mid 1980s relics like Backlund and Slaughter got 1990’s reigns when they were terrible and like 7-10 years past their primes at the very least.

Backlund. It's almost like Vince was trying to crater the company - he's lucky Ted committed to WCW, giving him the competitive fire to improve his product (eventually)

 

[orangenauburn]

I think some of those during the 80s with Piper and Dibiase if they had beat Hogan for the belt, the return match would have been that much more. I get they were making money hand over fist in that time, but even something like Savage beating Hogan at WrestleMania 5 would have prolonged the feud and made it that much better.

Piper pissed off Vince, and effectively ended his run with WWF

 

[OrangeDW]

Piper pissed off Vince, and effectively ended his run with WWF

Wait, when? In ‘87 when he left? He had a steady run from like 90-Mania ‘92, and then would show up here and there the next 3-4 years.

 

[OrangeDW]

Backlund. It's almost like Vince was trying to crater the company - he's lucky Ted committed to WCW, giving him the competitive fire to improve his product (eventually)

I will say that my friends and I liked to slap the cross face chicken wing on each other and then stare at our hands in shock afterwards. So that part was entertaining.

 

[orangenauburn]

Wait, when? In ‘87 when he left? He had a steady run from like 90-Mania ‘92, and then would show up here and there the next 3-4 years.

Im trying to remember what he said exactly but he said when he initially left to do They Live, he pissed Vince off so much, that he knew he'd never get a legit chance at the title again, and that he basically would come back for short runs because of the money

Might have been during an interview with Stern

 

[orangenauburn]

I will say that my friends and I liked to slap the cross face chicken wing on each other and then stare at our hands in shock afterwards. So that part was entertaining.

I remember my friends and I randomly throwing that move on each other at the most inappropriate times in high school

 

[OrangeDW]

Im trying to remember what he said exactly but he said when he initially left to do They Live, he pissed Vince off so much, that he knew he'd never get a legit chance at the title again, and that he basically would come back for short runs because of the money

Might have been during an interview with Stern

Ah, makes sense. Yeah, he was definitely a midcarder after that, though an upper mid carder….he had feuds with Dibiase and Rude, the first feud with Flair when he joined, and an IC title run and Mania match with Bret to kinda put him over as a soon to be top guy. But while important, not the same place he had on the card in the mid 80s.

 

[orangenauburn]

Ah, makes sense. Yeah, he was definitely a midcarder after that, though an upper mid carder….he had feuds with Dibiase and Rude, the first feud with Flair when he joined, and an IC title run and Mania match with Bret to kinda put him over as a soon to be top guy. But while important, not the same place he had on the card in the mid 80s.

I think he also was pissed at Vince for not putting the strap on him - he was fairly open with how he viewed events of the era

 

[OrangeDW]

I think he also was pissed at Vince for not putting the strap on him - he was fairly open with how he viewed events of the era

Can’t blame him there. Hogan having the belt for like 4 years proooobably wasn’t necessary, lol.

Maybe a Piper run from like Summer ‘85 to Mania 2 where Hogan wins it back? And definitely think Savage should’ve won it from Hogan at some point.

Jake Roberts or Dibiase could’ve had a run too.

It’s crazy how big of stars so many of those guys were that never won the title. Jake, Piper, Dibiase, Rude, Perfect, Razor….they were bigger stars and are still way bigger names than like half the world champions in the last 30 years.

 

[jncuse]

Backlund. It's almost like Vince was trying to crater the company - he's lucky Ted committed to WCW, giving him the competitive fire to improve his product (eventually)

It was a strange call, but it was only like 10 days. He was a good character (in 1994) as the crazy man in my view - just crazy to use him as the Bret to Diesel gateway. Imagine how bad the WWE was from 78 to 83 when they had him as a champ for like 5 years.

To be fair once Vince bought the company from his dad in late 1982, he really wanted to get rid of Backlund who was just terribly dry as a champ. I have recently been listening to this podcast called "Our Vantage point", which has audio of the broadcast and has 2 guys discussing every WWE TV episode starting from 1982. It was funny, in a hideous way how bad the WWE was when Vince took control of it in 1982. Vince also appeared to have some contempt for Bob when he would interview him.

I listen to about one episode for each month staring in January 1982. I'm now up to November 1983, so in one month the Iron Shiek will finally beat Backlund for the title. And then in January Hogan will take him out.

As an aside, the other wrestler who was very close to being the transition champ for Hogan was the "Masked Superstar" -- he is the one that actually screwed up Backlund's neck in storyline. The Masked Superstar had some great promos -- he eventually became Ax of Demolition.

 

[jncuse]

Can’t blame him there. Hogan having the belt for like 4 years proooobably wasn’t necessary, lol.

Maybe a Piper run from like Summer ‘85 to Mania 2 where Hogan wins it back? And definitely think Savage should’ve won it from Hogan at some point.

Jake Roberts or Dibiase could’ve had a run too.

It’s crazy how big of stars so many of those guys were that never won the title. Jake, Piper, Dibiase, Rude, Perfect, Razor….they were bigger stars and are still way bigger names than like half the world champions in the last 30 years.

Hogan for 4 - imagine Backlund for over 5 years before that!

The WWE was huge from 84 to 88 with Hogan as champ. Grew massively year after year. Can't blame them for keeping him as champ. It was great for business.

89 though is when fans started to get tired of the formula - post WM5 --perhaps having Hogan chase Savage as some suggested may have worked, or just starting flipping titles more frequently and having more heels would have made sense. They really only started to go that way in 1992.

And those characters still stay huge without ever winning any titles. Shows how characters back then were so memorable.

 

[jncuse]

Ah, makes sense. Yeah, he was definitely a midcarder after that, though an upper mid carder….he had feuds with Dibiase and Rude, the first feud with Flair when he joined, and an IC title run and Mania match with Bret to kinda put him over as a soon to be top guy. But while important, not the same place he had on the card in the mid 80s.

I don't think Vince liked for many of his stars to get too old. (Except for Hogan who inexplicably went back to again in 1993)

I would say his treatment of Savage at the end was more egregious than Piper. Basically used him mostly as an announcer, and had him in a feud with Crush and totally out of the title picture once he finally left.

 

[jncuse]

Im trying to remember what he said exactly but he said when he initially left to do They Live, he pissed Vince off so much, that he knew he'd never get a legit chance at the title again, and that he basically would come back for short runs because of the money

Might have been during an interview with Stern

I know he certainly pissed off Vince with some pro-union talk in the early 2000's.

Never heard about the earlier beef, but certainly sounds like something that would have happened. To be fair both Roddy and Vince were not that easy to get along with and both hotheads.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Hogan for 4 - imagine Backlund for over 5 years before that!

The WWE was huge from 84 to 88 with Hogan as champ. Grew massively year after year. Can't blame them for keeping him as champ. It was great for business.

89 though is when fans started to get tired of the formula - post WM5 --perhaps having Hogan chase Savage as some suggested may have worked, or just starting flipping titles more frequently and having more heels would have made sense. They really only started to go that way in 1992.

And those characters still stay huge without ever winning any titles. Shows how characters back then were so memorable.

Back then WWWF was a face-based promotion. Which led to the egregious mistake of having Superstar Billy Graham who, in his prime, was a heat-seeking missile, drop the title to the bland Backlund. Graham had this white Muhammad Ali schtick and he was managed by one of my faves, 'The Grand Wizard Of Wrestling'. He also really drew as a heel, but, for reasons I don't understand to this day, they had him drop the belt to the 'All-American Boy Bob Backlund', who inexplicably held the belt until the WWF became the circus.

 

[jncuse]

I think he also was pissed at Vince for not putting the strap on him - he was fairly open with how he viewed events of the era

He really didn't like Hogan and thought he was at least his equal and that he should of at least also been the champ. Piper was from the territory era where flipping titles was very common. Keeping titles on people forever was only a WWF thing. (Bruno twice, Backlund, Hogan)

To be fair to Vince I think he made the right call keeping it on Hogan throughout 85 and 86. If Hogan and Piper had flipped back and forth in 85 and 86, no way does something like WM3 (Hogan-Andre) ever become so epic... or the Hogan Savage story in 88 and 89.

Those stories were made bigger by making Hogan a really strong character. But that only works for so long. But 85 and 86, Hogan only had the title for a year at that point.

 

[jncuse]

Back then WWWF was a face-based promotion. Which led to the egregious mistake of having Superstar Billy Graham who, in his prime, was a heat-seeking missile, drop the title to the bland Backlund. Graham had this white Muhammad Ali schtick and he was managed by one of my faves, 'The Grand Wizard Of Wrestling'. He also really drew as a heel, but, for reasons I don't understand to this day, they had him drop the belt to the 'All-American Boy Bob Backlund', who inexplicably held the belt until the WWF became the circus.

I think you spelled out the reason above. Vince Sr, built up his federation on faces for 15 years- Bruno, Pedro (who was also apparently fairly brutal), then Bruno again. That was the formula he believed in - having heels chase the champ and the champ holding on forever. Very short term transition heel champs. It was the exact opposite of what the NWA did at the time - much more frequent changes, although the heels still held the title most of the time.

Not saying Vince Sr. made the right call taking it away from Graham but that was his philosophy. It was clearly the wrong call. I have heard great things about Graham as a heel, and seems like many analysts of that time never understood Backlund.

It certainly hurt the WWE business a lot, but the WWE still stayed fairly decent as a territory. The one thing you can argue though is that Backlund for 5 years probably took away much of the value from the WWE,, and that allowed the purchase price to be low enough to allow a young Vince McMahon to actually be able to buy the company. A better product in 1982, and perhaps Vince never is able to buy and to change wrestling forever. The product was terrible in 82 -- Iron Mike Sharpe had a feud against Backlund FFS!

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't think Vince liked for many of his stars to get too old. (Except for Hogan who inexplicably went back to again in 1993)

I would say his treatment of Savage at the end was more egregious than Piper. Basically used him mostly as an announcer, and had him in a feud with Crush and totally out of the title picture once he finally left.

Good point on Savage. It was abrupt too.

He went from defending the title against Ultimate Warrior at Summerslam ‘92, to losing it to Flair, but beating Flair/Razor at Survivor Series ‘92…..to basically not even wrestling anymore. Was a commentator on Raw and at Mania ‘93 - 1 year after winning the title at Mania and 5-6 months after being in the biggest angle. So weird to look back at that now. And it wasn’t temporary - he was mostly a commentator for almost 2 years.

 

[jncuse]

Back then WWWF was a face-based promotion. Which led to the egregious mistake of having Superstar Billy Graham who, in his prime, was a heat-seeking missile, drop the title to the bland Backlund. Graham had this white Muhammad Ali schtick and he was managed by one of my faves, 'The Grand Wizard Of Wrestling'. He also really drew as a heel, but, for reasons I don't understand to this day, they had him drop the belt to the 'All-American Boy Bob Backlund', who inexplicably held the belt until the WWF became the circus.

Question for you - if Vince Sr was intent on having a face champ, who would have made more sense as I don't know the era. Certainly there had to be some better face options than Backlund - I know Dusty Rhodes did some work for the WWF in the 70s. Did the WWF have any good internal options?

 

[jncuse]

Getting back to current WWF. The WWE TV product is terrible again ** and the ratings are back to the Vince era. My viewing is back to the way it was pre HHH -- never live, always PVR, and lots of fast forwarding... and some weeks never ever browsing through RAW ... I'll listen to podcasts when I walk to here them talk about or complain about the product. I do watch Smackdown more but always taped, and still lots of Fast Forward.

** One exception being The Zayn-Uso-Reigns stuff is gold but they have to move that story along at this point. Not sure what else I stop the FF to always watch. Gunther has some good stuff at times I suppose.

I think HHH tried to bring back way too many of his last batch of NXT wrestlers at once. Basically made it hard to build any of them -- and he was unable to build back any of his older wrestlers except for Sami.

 

[jncuse]

I will say the WWE PPV's (or premier events or whatever they call them) have pretty much all delivered under HHH, even with all the filler. Nothing A+ great, but always solid and a few really good shows.

Hopefully they manage to deliver something better than last year's Royal Rumble which was perhaps the worst and most confusing event of 2022. The Men's match was awful.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Question for you - if Vince Sr was intent on having a face champ, who would have made more sense as I don't know the era. Certainly there had to be some better face options than Backlund - I know Dusty Rhodes did some work for the WWF in the 70s. Did the WWF have any good internal options?

Good question. I have no answer. Graham was so PO'd about prospectively losing the belt to Backlund, who he felt was unworthy, that he told Bruno that he'd drop the belt to him instead. In a match where only the two of them would know what was going on. But Bruno was a company man, even though he, too, thought that Backlund would be weak, so he declined.

 

[Knicks411]

None of it is political in my view. Remember the WWE, like many other leagues like the NHL and NFL, has concussion lawsuits from performers before 2010. It needs to demonstrate that it has processes and clearance processes that it adheres to with regards to concussions.. Also as a public corporation, with publicly disclosed policies it has to follow them.

Simply put AEW has much more lax policies in place and allows wrestlers to take on more risk. Basically they allow the performers to dictate how much risk they want to take. For example head shots with chairs are still permitted. Maybe its fine, maybe its irresponsible by AEW. I don't think its an issue with WWE.

Danielson was at his peak - do you not think they would have loved to bring him back earlier?

Edge was not a concussion issue. It was a neck issue that over 8 years of non work strengthend itself.

The timeline was different with Danielson, like I said. He was cleared well before AEW was a thing. It took WWE a long while for their doctors to sign off on him; he had lots of other doctors that had given him the ok. (Thats based on my memory of his interviews after he came back)

For Edge; I don't think it's a coincidence he was cleared by WWE after AEW made him a big offer.

Sorry for being the disagreeing sort today. But I just don't see this as obvious. Not saying no either. Looking back at it as a fan today, and even going back to watch it may have been better - that I agree with. But man wrestling in the 80's was a simpler time - so much **** on TV -- they gave away very little for free.

I meant it was more obvious looking at it with today's way of thinking. I understand in 89 there was no way they weren't putting it back on Hogan.

 

[Knicks411]

Good point on Savage. It was abrupt too.

He went from defending the title against Ultimate Warrior at Summerslam ‘92, to losing it to Flair, but beating Flair/Razor at Survivor Series ‘92…..to basically not even wrestling anymore. Was a commentator on Raw and at Mania ‘93 - 1 year after winning the title at Mania and 5-6 months after being in the biggest angle. So weird to look back at that now. And it wasn’t temporary - he was mostly a commentator for almost 2 years.

Vince definitely had this thing about age back then. When he found Tom Magee in 87 or 88 he thought he could be the guy to replace Hogan. He really thought Warrior was that guy in 89/90.

His thing about age really gave WCW the opportunity to make the run they did; Hogan/Piper/Savage were all guys he basically thought were too old and WCW used them to great effect in from about 94-97 or so. (Not as much effectiveness in the later years)

 

[MSOrange]

Hoooooooooooo!

WWE Legend 'Hacksaw' Jim Duggan Detains Home Intruder At Gunpoint

WWE legend "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan detained an intruder at his South Carolina home at gunpoint using a .44 caliber pistol.

amp.tmz.com

 

[OrangeDW]

Hoooooooooooo!

WWE Legend 'Hacksaw' Jim Duggan Detains Home Intruder At Gunpoint

WWE legend "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan detained an intruder at his South Carolina home at gunpoint using a .44 caliber pistol.

amp.tmz.com

The pride of Glens Falls!!!