yikes kenpom sees it as pretty much a toss-up

[Orangezoo]

So the spread... We covered!

As for Westbrook, melo etc.. the problem with Westbrook is that his version of deferring is to take the play off all too often. He doesn't necessarily work hard to make himself available when he does this. Not saying he doesn't play hard but the numbers can be misleading. Melo is still a very good NBA player and all star quality if the west didn't have 80 pct of the leagues talent. He isn't as explosive but still is a hell of a scorer and defends well 1 v 1.

Back to Russ.. one really big problem with him is that he screws up floor balance when he goes nuts on the offensive glass and takes away fast break opportunities by not looking to run out as much, instead at times beating his own man to a rebound and forcing the team to run a half court set when they had a chance to push it.

Defensively he really doesn't stop the ball well and gets awful lazy as a lead guard. Overall this makes him a really difficult player to build around no matter how great he can be.

Ok St has no formula right now just the fact it is the Russ show. Every dominate team has a system or style.. OKC has none. Can't lay that blame on Melo or George, and the concern is more impatience looking for immediate returns than a realistic understanding of why it isn't working yet.

 

[Knicks411]

He's been in the league since 2003. You can say his speed/footwork have diminished. That's any player at his age in the league that long. But other parts of his game are as good, maybe better, than when he was younger, starting with his BB IQ. He's amazingly strong, and can guard the 4 effectively in the NBA, maybe the 5 for short stretches or in small ball. He can pass and make other players better. He's also rock solid in pressure situations, rarely turns it over given his usage. The sixers doubled him all night and he didn't blink an eye -- just made other players better. And he's been scoring 20 ppg for a decade + (until he arrived at OKC). His numbers might be down a little offensively, but that's because one player on OKC has the ball in his hands 70% of the time. I don't get the Melo bashing on here ... a total mystery with what he's accomplished over his career and one of the best SU players ever to don Orange.

I'm just saying Melo isn't the same player he once was.

I also am not sure I really buy that he's making players better. George and Russ are playing worse this year than in the past. KP is thriving now that Melo has gone. I'm not saying there's a direct correlation, but if he was making players better, that shouldn't be happening. (He's averaging 1.6 assists per 36; I get Russ has the ball a lot, but, 1.6?)

I also don't think any of the above qualifies as Melo bashing. He's always been a very good player with some flaws that kept him from the true elite in the NBA; now that he's older his flaws a little more pronounced and his strengths a little weaker.

 

[Newhouser]

Yeah, what a ripoff taking Melo: 24 points on 11-17 shooting. Westbrook only had 3 more points on 16 more shots (33 fga's andand 6 TO's). Good thing they can win with such "diminished" players. Whatever.

One game.

 

[reedny]

I'm just saying Melo isn't the same player he once was.

I also am not sure I really buy that he's making players better. George and Russ are playing worse this year than in the past. KP is thriving now that Melo has gone. I'm not saying there's a direct correlation, but if he was making players better, that shouldn't be happening. (He's averaging 1.6 assists per 36; I get Russ has the ball a lot, but, 1.6?)

I also don't think any of the above qualifies as Melo bashing. He's always been a very good player with some flaws that kept him from the true elite in the NBA; now that he's older his flaws a little more pronounced and his strengths a little weaker.

KP is thriving because he’s thriving. I’m still a Knicks fan. May wife and I watch every night, including the win at the Barclays center when KP’s knee was sore. This is a complex issue, as you know, with many variables. I think the supporting cast is also developing (lee, Niltakena, Baker), and also the rotations’ more established now. So I think you make a fair point about team speed with Melo gone (the game against LA was like lightening quick), but again, it’s hard to complain too much about Melo reliably producing 20 ppg when the new team was being formed.

As far as OKC, Melo started playing better (and George too) when Felton came in. Westbrook is about Westbrook — although amazingly competitive and capable player. But Melo’s so good at adjusting that he’s filling in when he can get touches. Last night was not an aberration, IMO.

 

[Knicks411]

KP is thriving because he’s thriving. I’m still a Knicks fan. May wife and I watch every night, including the win at the Barclays center when KP’s knee was sore. This is a complex issue, as you know, with many variables. I think the supporting cast is also developing (lee, Niltakena, Baker), and also the rotations’ more established now. So I think you make a fair point about team speed with Melo gone (the game against LA was like lightening quick), but again, it’s hard to complain too much about Melo reliably producing 20 ppg when the new team was being formed.

As far as OKC, Melo started playing better (and George too) when Felton came in. Westbrook is about Westbrook — although amazingly competitive and capable player. But Melo’s so good at adjusting that he’s filling in when he can get touches. Last night was not an aberration, IMO.

Well he sure didn't back that up tonight. Not going to kill him, played a lot of minutes last night, he's 33 now. Started fast and then he had nothing tonight

I don't think KP is directly thriving because Melo left, but I for sure think it has part to do with it; if Melo was still here, the team would be all about him, the offense would run through him, etc. And now KP has to be the guy.

 

[reedny]

Well he sure didn't back that up tonight. Not going to kill him, played a lot of minutes last night, he's 33 now. Started fast and then he had nothing tonight

I don't think KP is directly thriving because Melo left, but I for sure think it has part to do with it; if Melo was still here, the team would be all about him, the offense would run through him, etc. And now KP has to be the guy.

I have to agree with this mostly. KP's a budding superstar. I don't think Melo was holding him back, except that Melo's touches may have eaten into KP's. But then again, KP wasn't quite ready, and Melo was a reliable veteran that delivered pretty much every night. So I think the usage trade-off there was right at the time. This year, KP's blown up and he doesn't have another volume scorer on the floor to compete with. They're fun to watch.

Last night was emotional and I think Melo left his legs in Philly (age?). Overall though, he's still a force to be reckoned with and they're not paying him 20 million dollars a year because he sucks, as Newshnuauser implied.

 

[OrangeDW]

Russ reminds me of the morons at pickup runs that just take turns going one on one. When they don’t have the ball, they will literally just stand at the 3 point line and do nothing. Sometimes they’ll stand there with their hand up and call for the ball. Sometimes they’ll lean over with their hands on their knees and literally take the play off. Usually they’re young and didn’t/don’t even play organized hoops. Can’t stand it.

 

[pearl31]

hey only on syracusefan.com - start a thread on kenpom, check back and see it's a thread about the knicks and okc!

 

[Newhouser]

I have to agree with this mostly. KP's a budding superstar. I don't think Melo was holding him back, except that Melo's touches may have eaten into KP's. But then again, KP wasn't quite ready, and Melo was a reliable veteran that delivered pretty much every night. So I think the usage trade-off there was right at the time. This year, KP's blown up and he doesn't have another volume scorer on the floor to compete with. They're fun to watch.

Last night was emotional and I think Melo left his legs in Philly (age?). Overall though, he's still a force to be reckoned with and they're not paying him 20 million dollars a year because he sucks, as Newshnuauser implied.

I don't think he sucks and never said that. I said he hasn't looked good this year and I stand that. What they are paying him and a ton of guys in the league isn't always related to their quality of play. I'm a Melo fan and a Knick fan. In 2017 he is not a 20 million dollar player.

 

[reedny]

I don't think he sucks and never said that. I said he hasn't looked good this year and I stand that. What they are paying him and a ton of guys in the league isn't always related to their quality of play. I'm a Melo fan and a Knick fan. In 2017 he is not a 20 million dollar player.

You didn’t use the word, but you implied that OKC somehow got ripped off in that trade. The guy’s averaged almost 25 points per game since 2003. That’s over 1,000 NBA games. Not only is he contributing solid numbers to OKC considering there are 2 other star players (about 18 ppg and 6.5 rbpg), I think he’ll get better as he (and WB) adjusts. Knicks remarked about assists but with Westbrook having the ball all the time and driving to the rim, when Melo finally gets the ball it’s to shoot and not pass. I mean, I’m happy to hear different takes on here. And this is a matter of opinion. But to suggest that you know more than OKC management is a bit glib. If you’re a Melo fan, I haven’t seen any evidence of it. But back to Kenpom.