You Can't Mess with Texas

[Townie72]

Being in a conference with Texas is a huge challenge because UT has resources others don't have and will never have.

For example, the UT system controls the oil and gas rights on 2.1 million acres of land in West Texas.

In 2008, that land produced almost $300 million of royalties for the University system. With gas at $4, its probably a lot more in 2012. They don't need to do anything for it but cash a check.

https://www.utsystem.edu/news/2008/07/24/ut-system-explore-agreements-sale-future-oil-gas-royalties.

Don't worry a bit, Florida State, they won't use all that money to keep you in a permanent state of serfdom. You can always raise the taxes on Disney World admissions.

SU has a golf course. UT has 2.1 million acres ol land with oil underneath it.

 

[Chip]

Being in a conference with Texas is a huge challenge because UT has resources others don't have and will never have.

For example, the UT system controls the oil and gas rights on 2.1 million acres of land in West Texas.

In 2008, that land produced almost $300 million of royalties for the University system. With gas at $4, its probably a lot more in 2012. They don't need to do anything for it but cash a check.

https://www.utsystem.edu/news/2008/07/24/ut-system-explore-agreements-sale-future-oil-gas-royalties.

Don't worry a bit, Florida State, they won't use all that money to keep you in a permanent state of serfdom. You can always raise the taxes on Disney World admissions.

SU has a golf course. UT has 2.1 million acres ol land with oil underneath it.

All of this leads to why Nebraska, Texas A&M, Colorado and Missouri couldn't run from the Big 12 fast enough. A fact that is continually lost on those who think everyone can't wait for their Big 12 invite.

 

[44PRIDE]

SU has a golf course. UT has 2.1 million acres ol land with oil underneath it.

Yeah, but its a really nice golf course...

 

[SU2NASA]

Being in a conference with Texas is a huge challenge because UT has resources others don't have and will never have.

For example, the UT system controls the oil and gas rights on 2.1 million acres of land in West Texas.

In 2008, that land produced almost $300 million of royalties for the University system. With gas at $4, its probably a lot more in 2012. They don't need to do anything for it but cash a check.

https://www.utsystem.edu/news/2008/07/24/ut-system-explore-agreements-sale-future-oil-gas-royalties.

Don't worry a bit, Florida State, they won't use all that money to keep you in a permanent state of serfdom. You can always raise the taxes on Disney World admissions.

SU has a golf course. UT has 2.1 million acres ol land with oil underneath it.

We also have a warehouse downtown.

 

[Upstate]

We also have a warehouse downtown.

Hey, the dome is much more than a warehouse.

 

[CaliCuse]

Being in a conference with Texas is a huge challenge because UT has resources others don't have and will never have.

For example, the UT system controls the oil and gas rights on 2.1 million acres of land in West Texas.

In 2008, that land produced almost $300 million of royalties for the University system. With gas at $4, its probably a lot more in 2012. They don't need to do anything for it but cash a check.

https://www.utsystem.edu/news/2008/07/24/ut-system-explore-agreements-sale-future-oil-gas-royalties.

Don't worry a bit, Florida State, they won't use all that money to keep you in a permanent state of serfdom. You can always raise the taxes on Disney World admissions.

SU has a golf course. UT has 2.1 million acres ol land with oil underneath it.

We have one of the most poluted lakes in the country. That ought to be good for some green $. At some point someone may actually walk on water who is not thought to be a deity.

 

[Guinness]

Be that as it may it will not stop FSU from jumping for they perceive as a bigger TV contract.

 

[SU2NASA]

Be that as it may it will not stop FSU from jumping for they perceive as a bigger TV contract.

And then promptly spending more than that ferrying their women's volleyball and tennis teams to Ames, Iowa and Stillwater, Oklahoma.

 

[cusenole9]

Being in a conference with Texas is a huge challenge because UT has resources others don't have and will never have.

For example, the UT system controls the oil and gas rights on 2.1 million acres of land in West Texas.

In 2008, that land produced almost $300 million of royalties for the University system. With gas at $4, its probably a lot more in 2012. They don't need to do anything for it but cash a check.

https://www.utsystem.edu/news/2008/07/24/ut-system-explore-agreements-sale-future-oil-gas-royalties.

Don't worry a bit, Florida State, they won't use all that money to keep you in a permanent state of serfdom. You can always raise the taxes on Disney World admissions.

SU has a golf course. UT has 2.1 million acres ol land with oil underneath it.

I do buy a lot of arguments for reasons against FSU to the big 12 but this is not one of them. Yes, Texas is going to make more money than FSU, just like they are going to have more revenue than most any team in the nation. However, they agreed to equal revenue sharing for tiers 1 and 2 and signed a nice long grant of rights if they ever leave. They will make more money on t3 than anyone else in the big XII, but shouldn't they? They have the largest fan base and have invested the most money. Don't know how having greater overall revenue than a school keeps them in a state of serfdom... If that were the case, FSU would be in a state of Serfdom in any major conference. Townie, I agree with a lot of things you have to say and you seem to look at this stuff more objectively than a lot of other posters, but I don't quite buy this.

 

[cusenole9]

And then promptly spending more than that ferrying their women's volleyball and tennis teams to Ames, Iowa and Stillwater, Oklahoma.

Pretty sure FSU will do a more in depth cost-benefit analysis than what you have done.

 

[SU2NASA]

Pretty sure FSU will do a more in depth cost-benefit analysis than what you have done.

And that's just one of the reasons I think they're going nowhere.

 

[cusenole9]

And that's just one of the reasons I think they're going nowhere.

Could be. And I would have no problem with that. This is one of those situations where I think very few people, especially at this point, have enough information to know a) what is going to happen and b) what would be the right decision. As an FSU fan I'm just sitting back and trusting the people in charge to collect enough data to make a well-informed, well thought out decision.

 

[Townie72]

I do buy a lot of arguments for reasons against FSU to the big 12 but this is not one of them. Yes, Texas is going to make more money than FSU, just like they are going to have more revenue than most any team in the nation. However, they agreed to equal revenue sharing for tiers 1 and 2 and signed a nice long grant of rights if they ever leave. They will make more money on t3 than anyone else in the big XII, but shouldn't they? They have the largest fan base and have invested the most money. Don't know how having greater overall revenue than a school keeps them in a state of serfdom... If that were the case, FSU would be in a state of Serfdom in any major conference. Townie, I agree with a lot of things you have to say and you seem to look at this stuff more objectively than a lot of other posters, but I don't quite buy this.

I agree with much of what you have said. The NCAA limitations (e.g. 85 scholarships) keep things in check.

But the huge difference in total resources is real. Not "revenue" but "resources" They have so much more money than anyone else --- especially FSU --- that they can easily do what the other schools can't.

If you and I both make $100K a year of revenue we may or may not be equal. If you have a $10M trust fund in addition, that $100K for you is "mad money".

When they sit at the conference table, every body knows who the big dog is and if they feel like doing whatever, they are going to do exactly that. If FSU thought they had it bad in the ACC with the NC schools, they ain't seen nothing yet.

In thinking about FSU it seems to me:

They have to be suffering mightily from the nose dive the Florida economy took. Don't they have a $100m shortfall on the academic side? I don't want to offend you, but the State of Florida is in terrible shape. I have been there a lot in the past several years and the condition of much of it is shocking. I have been in the administrative offices of school districts that are surrounded with multiple chain link fences topped with razor wire to keep out thieves. It reminds me of the Special Weapons we stored nukes in when I was in the service. Except they are protecting their PCs not Sidewinder missiles.

FSU is facing huge competition for players not only from the usual suspects, but from the new wave of Florida schools (USF, CFL, FIU, FAU, etc). Texas doesn't recruit in Texas ... it selects.

FSU has been struggling against VT and UNC and Wake. And now they want to square off against Texas, Oklahoma and Okie State? FSU has a heck of a tradition. But I see some huge ass-whippings in their future. I guarantee you there are some 40pt and 50pt loses against those three in their future. "Running the score up" is what those schools do.

I have no idea what they are going to do. Their fans seem to have a lot of anti-ACC feelings. I think they are nuts. They are going from the firing pan into the fire.

 

[HtownOrange]

I do buy a lot of arguments for reasons against FSU to the big 12 but this is not one of them. Yes, Texas is going to make more money than FSU, just like they are going to have more revenue than most any team in the nation. However, they agreed to equal revenue sharing for tiers 1 and 2 and signed a nice long grant of rights if they ever leave. They will make more money on t3 than anyone else in the big XII, but shouldn't they? They have the largest fan base and have invested the most money. Don't know how having greater overall revenue than a school keeps them in a state of serfdom... If that were the case, FSU would be in a state of Serfdom in any major conference. Townie, I agree with a lot of things you have to say and you seem to look at this stuff more objectively than a lot of other posters, but I don't quite buy this.

You do realize that FSU already makes $6.5MM on their T3 rights and joining the Big 12 will only get them a lousy OOC football game (usually a cupcake) and a few home hoops games (again, against cupcakes/tune ups).

 

[HtownOrange]

Being in a conference with Texas is a huge challenge because UT has resources others don't have and will never have.

For example, the UT system controls the oil and gas rights on 2.1 million acres of land in West Texas.

In 2008, that land produced almost $300 million of royalties for the University system. With gas at $4, its probably a lot more in 2012. They don't need to do anything for it but cash a check.

https://www.utsystem.edu/news/2008/07/24/ut-system-explore-agreements-sale-future-oil-gas-royalties.

Don't worry a bit, Florida State, they won't use all that money to keep you in a permanent state of serfdom. You can always raise the taxes on Disney World admissions.

SU has a golf course. UT has 2.1 million acres ol land with oil underneath it.

Just a minor note: The PUF is split between UT and TAMU systems. UT gets 2/3 and TAMU gets 1/3. Still a cash windfall that no other schools enjoy on a regular basis. You $300MM figure is probably the UT share with TAMU getting $150MM.

If TAMU was not able to parlay their annual payment into a means of keeping up with Texas, what is FSU going to do with the great boon of 1 lousy football game and few hoops games?

 

[baggerbob]

The only reason oklahoma hasn't left is no-one wanted them alone,Kansas,Kansas St, Iowa St,Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma St weren't wanted by other conferences, or they would have left.

 

[retro44]

Being in a conference with Texas is a huge challenge because UT has resources others don't have and will never have.

For example, the UT system controls the oil and gas rights on 2.1 million acres of land in West Texas.

In 2008, that land produced almost $300 million of royalties for the University system. With gas at $4, its probably a lot more in 2012. They don't need to do anything for it but cash a check.

https://www.utsystem.edu/news/2008/07/24/ut-system-explore-agreements-sale-future-oil-gas-royalties.

Don't worry a bit, Florida State, they won't use all that money to keep you in a permanent state of serfdom. You can always raise the taxes on Disney World admissions.

SU has a golf course. UT has 2.1 million acres ol land with oil underneath it.

syracuse university is sitting on a very large amount of land in NYS that has tons of gas and oil beneath us.You don't have to believe me,but i know a few working the fields in PA. and they are hitting oil and they will not extract it now because of the permits they are issued and the companies are not pursueing as that would drive up the royalties paid out and going forward.

 

[texasorange]

I thought we had salt under Syracuse? White gold, New York tea?

 

[cusenole9]

I agree with much of what you have said. The NCAA limitations (e.g. 85 scholarships) keep things in check.

But the huge difference in total resources is real. Not "revenue" but "resources" They have so much more money than anyone else --- especially FSU --- that they can easily do what the other schools can't.

If you and I both make $100K a year of revenue we may or may not be equal. If you have a $10M trust fund in addition, that $100K for you is "mad money".

When they sit at the conference table, every body knows who the big dog is and if they feel like doing whatever, they are going to do exactly that. If FSU thought they had it bad in the ACC with the NC schools, they ain't seen nothing yet.

In thinking about FSU it seems to me:

They have to be suffering mightily from the nose dive the Florida economy took. Don't they have a $100m shortfall on the academic side? I don't want to offend you, but the State of Florida is in terrible shape. I have been there a lot in the past several years and the condition of much of it is shocking. I have been in the administrative offices of school districts that are surrounded with multiple chain link fences topped with razor wire to keep out thieves. It reminds me of the Special Weapons we stored nukes in when I was in the service. Except they are protecting their PCs not Sidewinder missiles.

FSU is facing huge competition for players not only from the usual suspects, but from the new wave of Florida schools (USF, CFL, FIU, FAU, etc). Texas doesn't recruit in Texas ... it selects.

FSU has been struggling against VT and UNC and Wake. And now they want to square off against Texas, Oklahoma and Okie State? FSU has a heck of a tradition. But I see some huge ass-whippings in their future. I guarantee you there are some 40pt and 50pt loses against those three in their future. "Running the score up" is what those schools do.

I have no idea what they are going to do. Their fans seem to have a lot of anti-ACC feelings. I think they are nuts. They are going from the firing pan into the fire.

I completely agree with you on the effects of the Florida economy on FSU football it has certainly hurt. I will simply agree to disagree on whether or not FSU can compete in the Big12. Last year we had OU (the top big12 team) tied in the fourth quarter. We also took the best recruit out of Texas and have had nothing but stellar recruiting since Fisher took over. (Whether this eventually turns into great teams remains to be seen). Hey, I'm a fan, I'm a little biased, and I think we will get better and compete. As an FSU fan and SU grad I hope FSU stays. That said, if I wasn't an SU grad I would be completely on the fence.

 

[Townie72]

syracuse university is sitting on a very large amount of land in NYS that has tons of gas and oil beneath us.You don't have to believe me,but i know a few working the fields in PA. and they are hitting oil and they will not extract it now because of the permits they are issued and the companies are not pursueing as that would drive up the royalties paid out and going forward.

The UT systems gets $300,000,000 a year in gas royalties. 2.1 million acres is equivalent to 3,281 square miles. West Texas light crude is the standard by which oli quality is judged.

How do those gas leases in NY match up to that?

 

[Townie72]

I completely agree with you on the effects of the Florida economy on FSU football it has certainly hurt. I will simply agree to disagree on whether or not FSU can compete in the Big12. Last year we had OU (the top big12 team) tied in the fourth quarter. We also took the best recruit out of Texas and have had nothing but stellar recruiting since Fisher took over. (Whether this eventually turns into great teams remains to be seen). Hey, I'm a fan, I'm a little biased, and I think we will get better and compete. As an FSU fan and SU grad I hope FSU stays. That said, if I wasn't an SU grad I would be completely on the fence.

Look, its obvious that I have no idea how well FSU would do in the Big 12. I'm just trying to be logical here.

I see FSU fighting OSU and WVU to be the 3rd or 4th best team in the Big 12.

FSU --- as an institution --- isn't close to being The University of Texas. It never will be. FSU seems to want to get out of the boxing ring with a middleweight and get into another boxing ring with a heavyweight.

Almost every fan appears to believe that switching to a better conference will somehow magically improve their team. Listen to the nonsense that Rutgers fans babble about going to the Big Ten. Suddenly they are going to get better. ACC membership was supposed to greatly improve VT basketball. How did that work out? Miami? BC?

I know the North Carolina schools run the ACC. I hear it constantly from my Terrapin buddies. But the North Carolina schools are benign rulers compared to Texas. If the FSU folks don't like where they are today, wait till they get under the thumb of Texas. And that's exactly where they will be in the Big 12. Texas will sit at the head of the table and tell the other schools how it is going to be.

And Texas is not a benevolent ruler. In spite of all their money and advantages, their creed is to get even more and more for themselves.

 

[All4SU]

We have one of the most poluted lakes in the country. That ought to be good for some green $. At some point someone may actually walk on water who is not thought to be a deity.

For what it's worth, Cali, Onondaga Lake is now significantly cleaner than it was a couple of decades ago. And the effort continues...

 

[CaliCuse]

lad to here that Considering my father's company Solvay Process was one of the larger polurts along with the town of Solvay. I always considered the Lake as a potential treasure if it could be cleaned up. Not many cities can boast of a lake in the city limits and A domed sports arena as well. How to connect these two assets is another matter. Once cleaned, I can imagine a very modern skyline on its shores with landscaping and lighting to make it a visionary treat for citizens and visitors both.

 

[cusenole9]

Look, its obvious that I have no idea how well FSU would do in the Big 12. I'm just trying to be logical here.

I see FSU fighting OSU and WVU to be the 3rd or 4th best team in the Big 12.

FSU --- as an institution --- isn't close to being The University of Texas. It never will be. FSU seems to want to get out of the boxing ring with a middleweight and get into another boxing ring with a heavyweight.

Almost every fan appears to believe that switching to a better conference will somehow magically improve their team. Listen to the nonsense that Rutgers fans babble about going to the Big Ten. Suddenly they are going to get better. ACC membership was supposed to greatly improve VT basketball. How did that work out? Miami? BC?

I know the North Carolina schools run the ACC. I hear it constantly from my Terrapin buddies. But the North Carolina schools are benign rulers compared to Texas. If the FSU folks don't like where they are today, wait till they get under the thumb of Texas. And that's exactly where they will be in the Big 12. Texas will sit at the head of the table and tell the other schools how it is going to be.

And Texas is not a benevolent ruler. In spite of all their money and advantages, their creed is to get even more and more for themselves.

See, I agree with the first sentence that I've bolded here. FSU will never be Texas, point taken. But I don't see what is wrong with getting tying oneself to such a heavyweight (let's avoid the possibility of Texas leaving and blowing everything up just for argument's sake). For FSU, it is about competing nationally. So let's say Texas has 500 dollars and FSU only has 60, and the average among other football schools is 120. If joining Texas (and I know that's a big if) gets fsu to 90 or 100 dollars, you have to do it to compete nationally. To keep up with the UF's and to continue to outrecruit the UCF's and USF;s you need resources and a reputation of playing with the big boys. The fact that Texas has all these resources doesn't guarantee that they will be a national (or even conference) title contender year in and year out. What it does guarantee is that they will be able to make a strong effort to do so. They will be able to upgrade facilities, hire good coaches, etc. If FSU can get similar stability by shacking up with Texas, then they will continue to recruit well in Florida, which gives FSU a chance to put it together for a couple years here and there to compete for a national championship. If FSU is in a conference that public opinion deems "lesser", then we stop winning recruiting battles with Florida, Georgia, Alabama, etc. THIS is what FSU is afraid of. FSU doesn't want an easy path, they want an honest chance at having years where they win it on the field, all of it, and are unequivocally the best.

 

[SU2NASA]

One thing I haven't heard mentioned is recruiting. When Penn State joined the Big Ten in the early 90s they thought they would steamroll it. They've won only 1 outright Big Ten title in 20 years.

How's Florida State going to recruit kids to go play in Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and Iowa? Argue better conference or not, but the kids they're recruiting today don't care about football in the Big 12 states, outside of a game against Texas or Oklahoma, when they'd be giving up Miami and a number of games close enough for family to attend, and playing against other kids they know.