youth sports

[swish7]

You know, you read and hear about all the craziness that can happen in youth sports: overzealous parents, coaches playing favorites; teams being more about winning than learning; coaches attempting to poach players to build up their teams. But man, actually witnessing it is quite another thing.

Very local to me there was a club team started by a former CNY guy. I've waited and waited for my kid to be old enough to play. He finally gets old enough to play, and the CNY guy has since passed on, and the team moves about 8 miles (suburban stoplight traffic) further away. So, I say what the heck, let's play anyway. So, I leave work an hour early twice a week to do a question mark dodge from work to his school, and all the way to his practice to make it work. Pain in the butt, but my kid has been having fun, and learning fundamentals.

During the season, I hear rumor that someone (didn't know who it was) was going to try to re-establish a program in closer proximity to its original location.

However, today, that person, from what I can gather, sent an email out to the parents of my kids program, apparently without the program directors prior knowledge, attempting to gauge their interest in this new team. One of the parents notified the program director, and he justifiably raised a huge fit (via email). Then the other dude responded. What a shame. What a mess.

It always saddens me to learn about these types of things in sports, especially youth sports. But to experience it is like a punch to the gut. At its core, sport is pure. Its a shame we adults find so many ways to screw it up.

 

[swish7]

I actually posted this b/c I was curious if anyone else has experienced anything like this, and if so, what you did about it?

 

[orange79]

Nope. I was pretty happy with my daughter's lacrosse coaches. Sounds like a nightmare, though.

 

[PhatOrange]

You know, you read and hear about all the craziness that can happen in youth sports: overzealous parents, coaches playing favorites; teams being more about winning than learning; coaches attempting to poach players to build up their teams. But man, actually witnessing it is quite another thing.

Very local to me there was a club team started by a former CNY guy. I've waited and waited for my kid to be old enough to play. He finally gets old enough to play, and the CNY guy has since passed on, and the team moves about 8 miles (suburban stoplight traffic) further away. So, I say what the heck, let's play anyway. So, I leave work an hour early twice a week to do a question mark dodge from work to his school, and all the way to his practice to make it work. Pain in the butt, but my kid has been having fun, and learning fundamentals.

During the season, I hear rumor that someone (didn't know who it was) was going to try to re-establish a program in closer proximity to its original location.

However, today, that person, from what I can gather, sent an email out to the parents of my kids program, apparently without the program directors prior knowledge, attempting to gauge their interest in this new team. One of the parents notified the program director, and he justifiably raised a fit (via email). Then the other dude responded. What a shame. What a mess.

It always saddens me to learn about these types of things in sports, especially youth sports. But to experience it is like a punch to the gut. At its core, sport is pure. Its a shame we adults find so many ways to screw it up.

I've been involved in youth sports for the past 5 years and they've jaded me to the point that I almost want nothing to do with them but have to stay involved to look out for my kids because there's so much self promotion, favoritism and politics going on. It's sickening. (and I've seen happen what you're experiencing. A youth lax club team in Albany formed because one parent didn't like the other parent running the Colonie program. So he took a bunch of kids and broke off. NY Tech Valley.)

When my kid was 7 and 8 he played pop warner football and it was the worst experience of my life as well as his. He hates football now and will never play again all because these @sshole coaches treated a 7 year old kid like he was in the Marine Corp. Give me a break. Not only that, but he practiced 12 hours a week to only play 5 snaps a game. Let me say that again. 5 snaps . Because that was the minimum requirement. At several points I would have come to blows if I wasn't talked off the ledge, but the treatment of my 7 YEAR OLD who'd never played football before and was there to have fun and learn was appalling to say the least. A year later I ended having words with one of those coaches on a lacrosse field over a 3rd/4th grade team, and we were both coaches. Nothing I'm proud (because at that moment I was one of 'those' people), but the mentality of some of these guys who think they're coaches pushes my buttons and when you throw in the fact that they're only out for their own kids it makes my head explode, and I'd had enough of this dude's bullsht and his treatment of the kids.

Lacrosse is a whole 'nother animal. I live in an area - as you do - where NOBODY has ever played the game. So I coach and I have a dam good team of 5th and 6th graders (15-2-2 last year) and the first thing i say to the kids before and after practice is "are we having fun". I don't favor my own kid or my friends kids. I coach to win but I want them to have fun doing it. I play every kid in practice and games - almost equally - regardless of score and ability. But you know what? My team still wins because my worst kids end up getting better. In 4 years I've not received one complaint from a parent and trust me, pt is usually the #1 complaint. You'd think playing every kid at that age (10/11) would be the norm but it's not. I see teams we're playing against, particularly teams gunning for us and their best kids dont leave the field. Kids are treated like they're playing varsity.

You know I know my sht on the lax field and I've still got parents who've never played the game trying to muscle me out so they can take over, trying to get their claws into it so they can promote their kids. Mind boggling.

 

[swish7]

I've been looking forward to your opinion on this.

It's sad, but a few weeks back I was in a random park waiting for my wife and kid to meet me. There was an 8-10 year old (not sure) football practice going on. The coach was running practice plays like it was a hurry up offense. Faster than a hurry up offense. Literally forcing the kids to run a play, then sprint back into position, and run another play. Then he'd cycle new guys in, shift some offensive players to defense (of which he had no coaches teaching any defensive fundamentals), and run more plays. If the QB didn't make it back into position in time, he would just put himself at QB, and run and juke around kids like he was McNabb. I mean, he was 30 years old, 6'2, 200 lbs, and athletic, doing this against 10 year olds. When kids did stuff wrong, which was a lot b/c they were running around like the keystone cops, he would get all George Patton on them. Parents were on the sideline, apparently loving it, for all I could tell. I was aghast.

As to lax, at least at the youngest level they attempt to play the kids evenly. However, the program is almost too big. 2 practices a week, an hour and a half each. Not a problem, but b/c of the size of the program and the dearth of coaches, there were a few practices where my kid literally received only 4-5 passes. They might have one coach doing passing drills with 15+ kids. So, you'd have a 7 year old standing in line for 3-4 minutes waiting for his turn to catch a pass, which he'd drop, then he'd have to hop back in line. Besides this, and a few other things that seem to be common problems on club teams, it is a good program. However, I am quite disappointed in the e-mail thread I mentioned.

 

[PhatOrange]

"(of which he had no coaches teaching any defensive fundamentals)"

That's one of the biggest issues in youth sports that I witness. I have a story I'll pick back up tomorrow.

 

[CHSLAX]

Interesting stuff. I am familiar with some of the examples mentioned above as well which make me chuckle. I have coached youth lacrosse (and basketball for both girls and boys) and HS lacrosse for many years and you see some crazy stuff. I heard a story once of a parent suing a rec program because the program refused to accept their kid who lived in the district of another rec program - I think the kid was 8 at the time. Same parent told me they were going to send their kid who was now 10 to Trinity Pawling. I actually haven't dealt with too much of what you mention though. Most parents don't know enough about the game so there is a fair amount of trust that has to go into having your kid play lacrosse. This also leads to really poor lacrosse instruction at the youth level. I have played against rec programs that would have one team with great instruction and we would go play their other team and you could tell they weren't being provided the same exposure to the skills needed to play. As a parent that would make me nuts.

However, once you get into the travel/club arena I don't see how I would accept paying for crappy coaching. The whole idea of paying $1k+ to me is to get top quality coaching. The tournaments are great and all but the kids are getting better at the practices. Personnally my son starting playing club this past year. After being coached by me for many years it was refreshing to have him instructed by others (thankfully many of the local HS coaches are guys I have played with and against over the years). The amount of individual instruction he got was outstanding and a difference maker and worth every penny. Why else would you pay that kind of money?

 

[texascpa]

I actually posted this b/c I was curious if anyone else has experienced anything like this, and if so, what you did about it?

Try having this happen to a whole league. With football. In Texas

 

[Geode]

http://changingthegameproject.com/

 

[swish7]

http://changingthegameproject.com/

Read one of the articles about 'having patience'. Fantastic stuff. ...coming from being the coach in the YMCA system where I could do things the right way, and the right way was generally accepted by the organization and parents, this whole club thing takes some getting used to.

This season my kid's club often had 1-2 coaches for the pee wees, 3-4 for the 'A' 4th grade team, and 1-2 for the 'B' 4th grade team. Just crazy if you ask me.

 

[PhatOrange]

Read one of the articles about 'having patience'. Fantastic stuff. ...coming from being the coach in the YMCA system where I could do things the right way, and the right way was generally accepted by the organization and parents, this whole club thing takes some getting used to.

This season my kid's club often had 1-2 coaches for the pee wees, 3-4 for the 'A' 4th grade team, and 1-2 for the 'B' 4th grade team. Just crazy if you ask me.

the mere fact that there is an A and B team pisses me off. I assume you mean one team is stacked and the other is not - based on the number of coaches? If thats not what you mean then my bad. I'm talking A and B as in one team is stacked with A kids and the second team are the kids who couldn't make the A team.

We have two teams but we basically have a 2 week try out and then split the teams down the middle as evenly as we can.

We'd go to tournaments and play XYZ A team and have a competitive game. Then we'd play XYZ B team and destroy them by 20 goals. It's dumb. I think those programs are hurting the kids and their development. I know the B team gains nothing by having my team thump them by 15.

 

[texascpa]

the mere fact that there is an A and B team pisses me off. I assume you mean one team is stacked and the other is not - based on the number of coaches? If thats not what you mean then my bad. I'm talking A and B as in one team is stacked with A kids and the second team are the kids who couldn't make the A team.

We have two teams but we basically have a 2 week try out and then split the teams down the middle as evenly as we can.

We'd go to tournaments and play XYZ A team and have a competitive game. Then we'd play XYZ B team and destroy them by 20 goals. It's dumb. I think those programs are hurting the kids and their development. I know the B team gains nothing by having my team thump them by 15.

I hear what you're saying, but kids are not created equal. Some are just way more talented than others. If you would have split your team similar to the way the other teams did, then that B team that got trounced by your mix of kids would have been more successful. The league is taking the approach of like-skilled players competing against each other. Similar to how kids can take AP, Pre-AP and regular classwork.

 

[PhatOrange]

I hear what you're saying, but kids are not created equal. Some are just way more talented than others. If you would have split your team similar to the way the other teams did, then that B team that got trounced by your mix of kids would have been more successful. The league is taking the approach of like-skilled players competing against each other. Similar to how kids can take AP, Pre-AP and regular classwork.

I don't agree with that philosophy especially since we're talking 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th graders. Youth sports should be about development. The kids who aren't as talented skill wise, in my experience, get better, faster, by playing with better kids. They don't learn and their skills don't progress when they're playing with other kids who don't know the game and can't pass and catch.

It's amazing how much better my first year kids get from the beginning of a season to the end of a season. I think a big part of it is because they're playing with a corp group of veteran kids who are pretty good. They're forced to learn quickly and improve their stick skills quickly because they're in drills day in and day out with the better kids.

 

[texascpa]

I don't agree with that philosophy especially since we're talking 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th graders. Youth sports should be about development. The kids who aren't as talented skill wise, in my experience, get better, faster, by playing with better kids. They don't learn and their skills don't progress when they're playing with other kids who don't know the game and can't pass and catch.

It's amazing how much better my first year kids get from the beginning of a season to the end of a season. I think a big part of it is because they're playing with a corp group of veteran kids who are pretty good. They're forced to learn quickly and improve their stick skills quickly because they're in drills day in and day out with the better kids.

I've been coaching the same level of player for many years, as well. And you're right, there are definitely kids who will get better over the course of the year. There are also many who will recoil and possibly regress due to the competition. At the end of the day, more comes from the coaching methods than the competition, in my opinion. If you're a competent coach, you can coach up most players. As your own example points out, just by sticking B team players against a combo of A and B doesn't mean that B team is going to get better.

 

[swish7]

the mere fact that there is an A and B team pisses me off. I assume you mean one team is stacked and the other is not - based on the number of coaches? If thats not what you mean then my bad. I'm talking A and B as in one team is stacked with A kids and the second team are the kids who couldn't make the A team.

We have two teams but we basically have a 2 week try out and then split the teams down the middle as evenly as we can.

We'd go to tournaments and play XYZ A team and have a competitive game. Then we'd play XYZ B team and destroy them by 20 goals. It's dumb. I think those programs are hurting the kids and their development. I know the B team gains nothing by having my team thump them by 15.

Fairly certain there was an A and B team at the 3rd through 4th grade level. I don't know how they split up the teams, but according to the parent gossip, the A team was 'stacked', 'undefeated' (who cares?), etc. They did spend time practicing together as well as apart. There was often a coaching disparity; 3 teams practicing at the same time, having roughly the same number of kids, but having different quantities of coaches. The coaching disparity was often painfully obvious. I'm curious how spring ball goes, to see if its any better organized.

 

[CHSLAX]

The question is are these rec teams or club teams? If they are town rec teams that play each other every weekend in a round robin format within some kind of league structure then A/B is in my opinion a poor way to develop players and grow the game. If it is a club, playing in tournaments against other clubs that could be a different story.

At that age kids really should be playing rec with their friends and then go play club after the rec season is over to get good coaching and get on the summer tournament circuit. At that young of an age, physical ability and athleticism is generally a bigger factor than stick skills at least from what I have seen.

 

[Bayside44]

I don't agree with that philosophy especially since we're talking 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th graders. Youth sports should be about development. The kids who aren't as talented skill wise, in my experience, get better, faster, by playing with better kids. They don't learn and their skills don't progress when they're playing with other kids who don't know the game and can't pass and catch.

It's amazing how much better my first year kids get from the beginning of a season to the end of a season. I think a big part of it is because they're playing with a corp group of veteran kids who are pretty good. They're forced to learn quickly and improve their stick skills quickly because they're in drills day in and day out with the better kids.

I coach CYO and have been dragged back in the fray this season after hoping I'd have a year off.

For hoop the A and the B thing...well, you need to balance out rosters and such a bit. To take the top 12 kids and put them in A, and the next 12 and put them in B does everyone a disservice. We had an issue where the A had three good point guards and they wanted a forth. That's pretty pointless, the B would have no one and the other guards would split too much time. The lower level teams need some skill, and the upper level teams need back end system types.

As far as neighborhood sports wars go, where I live is nuts, these people all thing they are Jerry McGuire or something. People literally move to get on better club teams that feed into the top high school. That is basically for lax.