zone

[OttoinGrotto]

I think that shows evidence of 100% zone being a gimmick.

...because I think both assumptions re: last year/this year are accurate.

So you're suggesting it always was a gimmick.

 

[longislandcuse]

So you're suggesting it always was a gimmick.

In 2018/19, with our current level of B athletes, and the change in basketball filtering down from the NBA in recent years...

100% zone, I’m speaking to - Yes. Gimmick.

 

[tbonezone]

every team knows what they're facing every trip down the floor and can plan against it.

Hence that general is skillful in attack whose opponent does not know what to defend; and he is skillful in defense whose opponent does not know what to attack.
– Sun Tzu, The Art of War Quotes

we got no change up pitch other than the chaotic desperation of the down 12 trunkeymonkey

 

[two3zone]

The zone isn't the problem, the refusing to switch to man when it may be warranted and the recruiting strictly for the zone are the problems.

Our offense sucks, our depth sucks and our IQ on the floor is awful, all bigger problems than our defense.

 

[cuseattle]

I'm not really sure of your point, but monkeys on typewriters are awesome!
(And I know it's not a monkey)

 

[Cusedad2X]

While there is definitely a solid point to be made on the stubborness about never getting out of the zone that's been made 10000 times and most agree a little bit of change would be good, this year's team was not as solid of a perimeter defensive team as some preivous ones, especially with Frank out and less than 100% most of the year. Also Baylor and UVA were taking and making Steph Curry 3's. Until we start seeing more college teams doing that with any kind of consistency, daring college players to consistently make 3's is not a bad philosophy. I think the team needs a talent upgrade to compete against the teams above the #10 seed in the ACC and teams with at least 19 wins.

That it is my beef, "daring college players to consistently make 3's" is viewed as a good philosophy?
You should want to make a player miss as opposed to hoping a player will miss. I think that plays into this whole lazy attitude cloud that seems to be hanging over us. AND......3's can be extremely deflating to us when the opponent's easy foul line or baseline jumper ....or uncontested dunk isn't shredding our zone.

 

[Melancer46]

I do think that we need a coach that is flexible and will change the defense on the nights that the zone simply isn't working, but Syracuse was one of the top 30 defenses in the country this year and that was one of the worst defensive teams we've had this decade.

There's certainly games where it just isn't working no matter what adjustments Jim tries to make and in those times, we need to be able to go to something else, but there's no reason the zone can't continue to be the primary defense. It still works the vast majority of the time to great success.

Per Kenpom, here's our offensive ranking vs. defensive ranking in past years:

2019: 59 / 30
2018: 135 / 5
2017: 30 / 119
2016: 50 / 18
2015: 117 / 20
2014: 28 / 13
2013: 26 / 6
2012: 7 / 16
2011: 24 / 17
2010: 6 / 14

One year outside of the top 30 in defense in the past decade and it happens to be one of the past 5 years. Offense used to be good but has been 50th or worse 4 of the past 5 years.

 

[Chip]

Sure it can. Right through the end of the 2022/23 season.

It will outlive Buddy’s college career by one year?

 

[Townie72]

It will outlive Buddy’s college career by one year?

You are right.

Of course, we might get another Zone devotee given the likely composition of the SU roster when he comes in.

 

[Chip]

You are right.

Of course, we might get another Zone devotee given the likely composition of the SU roster when he comes in.

It’s certainly going to be the first phone call.

 

[Killdozer]

My question to JB would be this. When you coached on team USA with coach K how come Duke added the zone to their defensive scheme and you came away with nothing new?

 

[GooseMutt]

The “Pigeon Hole” the zone puts us in recruiting wise is our current demise

 

[OrangeDW]

The “Pigeon Hole” the zone puts us in recruiting wise is our current demise

How is that?

What’s changed, and when did it change?

 

[GooseMutt]

How is that?

What’s changed, and when did it change?

Many top level recruits want man to man to prepare for Nba. Many 5 star guys want to play with other 5 stars and so forth. Zone leaves us seeking 3 star lanky projects. If we played man, you don’t think a couple 5 stars wouldn’t be tempted to play at dome. This zone thing is now killing us.

 

[OrangeDW]

Many top level recruits want man to man to prepare for Nba. Many 5 star guys want to play with other 5 stars and so forth. Zone leaves us seeking 3 star lanky projects. If we played man, you don’t think a couple 5 stars wouldn’t be tempted to play at dome. This zone thing is now killing us.

There’s literally nothing factual there.

The stars playing with other 5 stars thing is happening at literally two schools. Both of whom play some zone.

Quincy doesn’t look like a lanky 3 star project.

Joe G scored 50 ppg, he’s not a zone recruit.

The NBA often drafts our guys pretty high...if anything it tends to overdraft them, when we’ve got them.

I don’t think they care about college defense nearly as much as those that negative recruit against SU(including many of our Costanza fans) think they do. They care about offensive skill sets and physical measurables/athleticism.

 

[tbonezone]

My question to JB would be this. When you coached on team USA with coach K how come Duke added the zone to their defensive scheme and you came away with nothing new?

duke zone applies pressure to the ball back court. they switch out of it. not JB defense at all.

 

[djcon57]

You can only extend a zone so far. Almost every team has shooters that are comfortable from NBA distance. The zone might be effective in a handful of matchups but it needs to become a complimentary tool, not the only tool. I don't care what the metrics say anymore.

Yep. The “omg he made it from half court what are you supposed to do?” defense doesn’t work anymore. Players now shoot those shots

 

[SoBristol]

I can't prove anything. It's just my opinion.

I believe the college game has changed and we need to change with it to be as successful as we can be.

Of course I haven't seen our current players play regularly in m2m sets. What kind of question is that?

My question was to provoke some thought — let me rephrase: can you imagine Chukwu, Buddy, Marek being good m2m defenders? If we need to change, we need to recruit differently. Whatever the approach to defense(s), we need more recruiting wins if we expect better than 20 wins and an 8 seed.

 

[kingtidge]

My question was to provoke some thought — let me rephrase: can you imagine Chukwu, Buddy, Marek being good m2m defenders? If we need to change, we need to recruit differently. Whatever the approach to defense(s), we need more recruiting wins if we expect better than 20 wins and an 8 seed.

Sure, Rome wasn't built in a day... But these are div 1 athletes... Many of whom came thru high school and AAU playing man. To assume none of them can be coached to play man is rich. But will it be a problem for some, sure.

JAB is a HOF coach and can coach m2m if he wants. He doesn't want to and the half-hearted ploy he did with it a few years ago where we lost to lemoyne was a stunt to shut people up about it. He simply doesn't want to change. So be it. Doesn't mean it's not a problem.

We need to recruit better regardless.

Project big guys with poor hand/eye coordination should not be players we are going after regardless. The lack of offensive skill at the center position is a huge problem and a recruiting failure, no matter what our style of play is.

 

[tbonezone]

you know who get's the top recruits ? the top programs. we've allowed ourselves to slip into the second tier . and that's the recruits your gonna get. second tier players. we're looking up.

 

[Cuse'91]

How do you recruit top desirable recruits when they basically will have no idea who their coach will be to finish their career with?
I can't even blame anyone for saying no thanks...
Coach is 74 years old
Only play zone
Coach will play his son a ton
Finish your last year or two with surprise head coach

 

[tbonezone]

top recruits these days stay one year.

 

[Cuse'91]

top recruits these days stay one year.

Those will be going straight to NBA soon. I'm talking just Top 100 talent; which we are not guaranteed to get these days...

 

[kingtidge]

How do you recruit top desirable recruits when they basically will have no idea who their coach will be to finish their career with?

You don't.

People better get comfortable with the fact that JAB's tenure will end like a balloon losing air and we may have a couple years in the wilderness before the table is reset properly.

That's assuming we make a good hire replacement.

Bad hire could make us wildlings beyond the wall for longer.

I trust Wildhack to make the right hire, however.

We're the biggest venue in college basketball with a big history and fans everywhere.

Some big candidates will want this job if we're willing to pay the going rate.

 

[MGDCuse]

It’s certainly going to be the first phone call.

Does Hop play exclusively zone or does he play a little m2m also? I haven't watched enough of Washington to know.