2016 Mets

[Knicks411]

That was a hell of a game to go to, even though the outcome sucked.

I talked with some friends about dangling Familia in the summer; not because I think he's a choker or anything, but the Mets may not want to pay the escalating arb awards for all the saves he's racked up.

 

[Oráiste]

That was a hell of a game to go to, even though the outcome sucked.

I talked with some friends about dangling Familia in the summer; not because I think he's a choker or anything, but the Mets may not want to pay the escalating arb awards for all the saves he's racked up.

agree . . . the Mets have emptied the pipeline chasing post season the last 2 years; now need players at every level, big league and minors. I don't think they can afford to move any of the starters at this point. If they all perform well coming back from surgery next year, then someone can be dangled at the deadline. But for now, Familia is the best bet to get a good return, and the easiest loss to swallow because Reed can move into his 9th inning slot. Plus the salary issues you mention.

I would not be surprised to see him return, but I would be surprised if we don't hear a lot of chatter about him on the rumor mill this winter.

 

[kirbivore]

Pretty much... I could see it coming a mile away, not sure why Collins couldn't. This is what makes him such a great player manager but a pisss poor game manager. He seems to go by a formula rather than what the game is telling him. His formula is starter through 7 and Reed in 8th and Familia in the 9th so that's what he did. But when you are facing a guy who doesn't give up runs in the post season you need to alter the formula. Thor should have stayed in for the 8th and Reed the 9th. Familia has been terrible in non-save situations so he shouldn't have been in one. But Collins predetermined he wasn't going to repeat the Harvey situation or the Britton situation. Love the guy but mets need a better tactician.

Sounds like Joe Binder. He's just had better relievers so his formula works more often.

 

[Briancuse]

That was a hell of a game to go to, even though the outcome sucked.

I talked with some friends about dangling Familia in the summer; not because I think he's a choker or anything, but the Mets may not want to pay the escalating arb awards for all the saves he's racked up.

Unless you got a great package back, it wouldn't make sense. I still believe Familia can get it done,

 

[Knicks411]

Unless you got a great package back, it wouldn't make sense. I still believe Familia can get it done,

Like I said, it's in no way a call on Familia being a choker or whatever. More a financial thing than anything else. (which sucks, but, Wilpons). And look at some of the packages relievers have brought back the last few years.

 

[SWC75]

I think various people have suggested we get rid of everyone on the team at some point this year. I'm a 'bird in the hand' guy. If you have a guy with 94 saves in two years, you have a closer and you look to improve other positions, either from the minors or free agents. Giving up good players in trades should be third. Add to what you've already got. trades are a spin of a roulette wheel. People want to play fantasy baseball with real players.

 

[Knicks411]

I think various people have suggested we get rid of everyone on the team at some point this year. I'm a 'bird in the hand' guy. If you have a guy with 94 saves in two years, you have a closer and you look to improve other positions, either from the minors or free agents. Giving up good players in trades should be third. Add to what you've already got. trades are a spin of a roulette wheel. People want to play fantasy baseball with real players.

If I wasn't worried about the Wilpons finances, I wouldnt even have mentioned trading Familia. I think Familia is great.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Unless you got a great package back, it wouldn't make sense. I still believe Familia can get it done,

This year his walks and hits against stats skyrocketed when compared to 2015. Just anecdotally speaking he seems to have lost his ability to generate swings and misses and his ability to consistently miss bats when he's in the strike zone. Feels like his stuff in 2016 never reached the level it did in 2015. A closer who pitches to contact really scares me.

 

[SWC75]

This year his walks and hits against stats skyrocketed when compared to 2015. Just anecdotally speaking he seems to have lost his ability to generate swings and misses and his ability to consistently miss bats when he's in the strike zone. Feels like his stuff in 2016 never reached the level it did in 2015. A closer who pitches to contact really scares me.

Why did his saves go up on a team that won fewer games?

 

[Briancuse]

This year his walks and hits against stats skyrocketed when compared to 2015. Just anecdotally speaking he seems to have lost his ability to generate swings and misses and his ability to consistently miss bats when he's in the strike zone. Feels like his stuff in 2016 never reached the level it did in 2015. A closer who pitches to contact really scares me.

There are no more Mariano Rivera's anymore, most Closers are going to put guys on and scare you, for the most part this year he got out of it. He left one right over the plate on Wed, and it cost us the game.

 

[SWC75]

There are no more Mariano Rivera's anymore, most Closers are going to put guys on and scare you, for the most part this year he got out of it. He left one right over the plate on Wed, and it cost us the game.

I've rooted for the Mets since the 80's and I don't remember a closer that didn't put guys on and scare me, unless it was Billy Wags and that was at his best.

This guy drove me nuts but he wound up with 424 saves:

 

[Knicks411]

This year his walks and hits against stats skyrocketed when compared to 2015. Just anecdotally speaking he seems to have lost his ability to generate swings and misses and his ability to consistently miss bats when he's in the strike zone. Feels like his stuff in 2016 never reached the level it did in 2015. A closer who pitches to contact really scares me.

I wouldn't say he pitched to contact necessarily, he still struck out over a guy per inning, but I agree his stuff wasn't quite as good as it was in 2015. (To be fair, in 2015 his stuff was filthy). And the control was a little worse than last year. When he added that splitter late last year he was close to unhittable.

 

[Briancuse]

I've rooted for the Mets since the 80's and I don't remember a closer that didn't put guys on and scare me, unless it was Billy Wags and that was at his best.

This guy drove me nuts but he wound up with 424 saves:

3-2 Johnny, love the guy, he is a great guy, but he made me a nervous wreck during his games.

 

[Oráiste]

I think various people have suggested we get rid of everyone on the team at some point this year. I'm a 'bird in the hand' guy. If you have a guy with 94 saves in two years, you have a closer and you look to improve other positions, either from the minors or free agents. Giving up good players in trades should be third. Add to what you've already got. trades are a spin of a roulette wheel. People want to play fantasy baseball with real players.

saves are the simplest of simple counting stats; I like Familia for many reasons but I am unimpressed by the 94 that puts stars in your eyes. Reed likely would have accumulated roughly the same number if their positions were reversed. The Mets have two guys capable of closing; when you have the personnel issues that this organization is facing, it makes baseball (not just financial) sense to shop one to see what kind of return you can get.

 

[Briancuse]

saves are the simplest of simple counting stats; I like Familia for many reasons but I am unimpressed by the 94 that puts stars in your eyes. Reed likely would have accumulated roughly the same number if their positions were reversed. The Mets have two guys capable of closing; when you have the personnel issues that this organization is facing, it makes baseball (not just financial) sense to shop one to see what kind of return you can get.

Not every 8th inning guy can get it done as a closer, I know Reed has been one before, but we have a great thing going, don't mess with it. We have so many more pressing issues, like Signing Cespedes, Signing Walker, finding a Catcher, and trying to keep our starting pitchers healthy.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Why did his saves go up on a team that won fewer games?

More opportunities to save because they had a lot more close games. But primarily he was able to work himself out of jams. He's a great reliever but I don't trust him in a do or die game.

 

[OttoMets]

As a rule I don't trust any closer. Benitez, Wagner, Familia, no. Franco, maybe a little more than the rest. Braden Pooper, absolutely not.

It's a job where you can have a 95% success rate and still be a goat. Just the nature of the role.

 

[SWC75]

saves are the simplest of simple counting stats; I like Familia for many reasons but I am unimpressed by the 94 that puts stars in your eyes. Reed likely would have accumulated roughly the same number if their positions were reversed. The Mets have two guys capable of closing; when you have the personnel issues that this organization is facing, it makes baseball (not just financial) sense to shop one to see what kind of return you can get.

That assumes a lot. If Reed is so great, wouldn't he be good trade bait?

 

[SWC75]

More opportunities to save because they had a lot more close games. But primarily he was able to work himself out of jams. He's a great reliever but I don't trust him in a do or die game.

Last year he converted 89.6% of his save opportunities. This year it was 91.1%. Seems pretty consistent.
Jeurys Familia Stats, Fantasy & News

Addison Reed has coverted 80.3% for his career and 2 of 8 for the Mets.
Addison Reed Stats, Fantasy & News

 

[Knicks411]

That assumes a lot. If Reed is so great, wouldn't he be good trade bait?

yes, but Reed is only under control for a year, Familia for 2. So you'd likely be able to get more for Familia. If they could get a great package for Reed, I'm all for shopping him as well.

Last year he converted 89.6% of his save opportunities. This year it was 91.1%. Seems pretty consistent.
Jeurys Familia Stats, Fantasy & News

Addison Reed has coverted 80.3% for his career and 2 of 8 for the Mets.
Addison Reed Stats, Fantasy & News

Part of this is a problem with how the save rule is calculated. If Reed comes into the 8th inning of a game the Mets are winning and allows a run, he gets a blown save. But if he pitched a scoreless inning, he doesn't get a save, he gets a hold.. So guys who are setup men will generally have bad save %.

Reed has 46 holds as a Met, if you tack those back in (the math doesn't exactly work, but bear with me) he's 48-54 as a Met, which is 88.9%.

Anyway, I think Familia is better than Reed. Relievers got traded for some really good returns the last year or so. I wouldn't mind exploring trading either of those 2 if the return was something like Clint Frazier.

 

[SWC75]

yes, but Reed is only under control for a year, Familia for 2. So you'd likely be able to get more for Familia. If they could get a great package for Reed, I'm all for shopping him as well.



Part of this is a problem with how the save rule is calculated. If Reed comes into the 8th inning of a game the Mets are winning and allows a run, he gets a blown save. But if he pitched a scoreless inning, he doesn't get a save, he gets a hold.. So guys who are setup men will generally have bad save %.

Reed has 46 holds as a Met, if you tack those back in (the math doesn't exactly work, but bear with me) he's 48-54 as a Met, which is 88.9%.

Anyway, I think Familia is better than Reed. Relievers got traded for some really good returns the last year or so. I wouldn't mind exploring trading either of those 2 if the return was something like Clint Frazier.

I still remember reading a baseball writer's column in which he said that the Tigers "can move Alan Trammell because Chris Pittaro's ready in Double A".
Chris Pittaro Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[Knicks411]

I still remember reading a baseball writer's column in which he said that the Tigers "can move Alan Trammell because Chris Pittaro's ready in Double A".
Chris Pittaro Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

The only difference is Addison Reed isn't in AA, he's in the majors and he was was awesome last season. Remember Familia got the job in the first place because of Mejia being suspended. It's not like he's been anointed for years

No one is saying give anyone away.

 

[OttoMets]

Could we trade Kevin Long? Might be able to get a sack of hot dog rolls or some batting doughnuts in return.

 

[OrangeFoo]

The only difference is Addison Reed isn't in AA, he's in the majors and he was was awesome last season. Remember Familia got the job in the first place because of Mejia being suspended. It's not like he's been anointed for years

No one is saying give anyone away.

The only reason we got reed was because he self-destructed as a closer wherever he was before. I don't think Reed is the answer...

 

[Briancuse]

The only reason we got reed was because he self-destructed as a closer wherever he was before. I don't think Reed is the answer...

Thats usually how you get good 8th inning guys, if they were a good closer they would be somewhere else. He is a great answer for the 8th inning.