Brady beats the NFL

[Cusefan0307]

So was it 6 or 40 games that were taped? That seems like a discrepancy.

Did we (the public, the media) see all the tapes at a special news conference? (obviously not)

If there were always 40 tapes, why did Goodell say 6 (understanding that he's probably an absolute moron).

We don't even know if there were 40 tapes because people are afraid to put their name down. They could of suspected there was more, but we will never know.

ESPN rehashing this story is about as freaking dumb as Syracuse getting scholarships getting taken away for pot back in 2006.

 

[Alsacs]

So was it 6 or 40 games that were taped? That seems like a discrepancy.

Did we (the public, the media) see all the tapes at a special news conference? (obviously not)

If there were always 40 tapes, why did Goodell say 6 (understanding that he's probably an absolute moron).

You realize that until 2006 it was LEGAL to videotape on the sideline? I don't know if the 6 or 40 matter since the only illegal videotaping would have occured in 2006 season and the Jets game in 2007.

I doubt you even care about that and will scream 40 40 40 all night long.

Here is freaking memo
A memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If you think the Patriots were sufficiently punished for what took place as described in that article well we just disagree. They destroyed the evidence because the alternative was obviously to void Super Bowl championships since they were won dishonestly (if the article is true, which I'm sure it is).

And when you read that article, it becomes abundantly clear that the organization is capable of having a "system" where some ball-handlers are responsible for deflating footballs, in a way that defeats the system, implying they know they're breaking the rules.

Because I believe in integrity I choose to not honor the Super Bowls the Patriots have won under Belichek.

There, I said it.

How about Aaron Rogers?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Where there's smoke there's fire. Been too many accusations and suspicions about the Pats over the years. Kraft cheats. Belichek cheats. Brady cheats. If it wasn't so messy for the NFL, they'd make them vacate SB wins.

Maybe we should vacate the 03 title too while were at it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Where there's smoke there's fire. Been too many accusations and suspicions about the Pats over the years. Kraft cheats. Belichek cheats. Brady cheats. If it wasn't so messy for the NFL, they'd make them vacate SB wins.

Answer this Bees? Do you believe everything that comes out of Bristol?

 

[Alsacs]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/sports/football/03nfl.html?_r=0

BTW that article says it was 6 tapes from the 2006 season and 2007 preseason. Those tapes would have been the illegal tapes. The 40 numbers means nothing as before 2006 it was not illegal.

 

[Alsacs]

Answer this Bees? Do you believe everything that comes out of Bristol?

I guess when the NCAA says about Syracuse we lacked institutional control that means we are habitual cheaters.

 

[Orangeman]

I don't think you have that right about taping signals being legal from '00-'06. You may be referencing a memo that REMINDED teams they were not allowed to do so, which the Patriots ignored.


From the article (excerpts):

IN AUGUST 2000, before a Patriots preseason game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Jimmy Dee, the head of New England's video department, approached one of his charges, Matt Walsh, with a strange assignment: He wanted Walsh to film the Bucs' offensive and defensive signals, the arm waving and hand folding that team coaches use to communicate plays and formations to the men on the field.

Walsh later told investigators that, at the time, he didn't know the NFL game operations manual forbade taping signals.

The allegations against the Patriots prompted NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson to send a letter to all 32 team owners, general managers and head coaches on Sept. 6, 2006, reminding them that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited from the sidelines."

 

[rrlbees]

Answer this Bees? Do you believe everything that comes out of Bristol?

No

 

[rrlbees]

Maybe we should vacate the 03 title too while were at it.

Why? Were there accusations or suspicions about us cheating that year? KC and Smokefree at Maryland don't count.

 

[rrlbees]

I guess when the NCAA says about Syracuse we lacked institutional control that means we are habitual cheaters.

Except they put a timeframe on that.

 

[Orangeman]

ESPN talked with 2 people on the horrible Fine story. Bad job.

This article they spoke with 90 people who were there.

Bit of a difference I'd say.

Parrying the realities of the Patriots' misdeeds using Syracuse basketball innuendo isn't the way to go, IMO

 

[Alsacs]

I don't think you have that right about taping signals being legal from '00-'06. You may be referencing a memo that REMINDED teams they were not allowed to do so, which the Patriots ignored.


From the article (excerpts):

IN AUGUST 2000, before a Patriots preseason game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Jimmy Dee, the head of New England's video department, approached one of his charges, Matt Walsh, with a strange assignment: He wanted Walsh to film the Bucs' offensive and defensive signals, the arm waving and hand folding that team coaches use to communicate plays and formations to the men on the field.

Walsh later told investigators that, at the time, he didn't know the NFL game operations manual forbade taping signals.

The allegations against the Patriots prompted NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson to send a letter to all 32 team owners, general managers and head coaches on Sept. 6, 2006, reminding them that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited from the sidelines."

What did the NFL game operations manual say? Please don't try saying Belichick was the first and only person who ever video taped opposed defenses. Google Jimmy Johnson on this subject.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think you have that right about taping signals being legal from '00-'06. You may be referencing a memo that REMINDED teams they were not allowed to do so, which the Patriots ignored. From the article (excerpts): IN AUGUST 2000, before a Patriots preseason game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Jimmy Dee, the head of New England's video department, approached one of his charges, Matt Walsh, with a strange assignment: He wanted Walsh to film the Bucs' offensive and defensive signals, the arm waving and hand folding that team coaches use to communicate plays and formations to the men on the field. Walsh later told investigators that, at the time, he didn't know the NFL game operations manual forbade taping signals. The allegations against the Patriots prompted NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson to send a letter to all 32 team owners, general managers and head coaches on Sept. 6, 2006, reminding them that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited from the sidelines."

So the number is 40. Time to vacate SB's. And an asterisk needs to go next to Patriots* too.

 

[Alsacs]

ESPN talked with 2 people on the horrible Fine story. Bad job.

This article they spoke with 90 people who were there.

Bit of a difference I'd say.

Parrying the realities of the Patriots' misdeeds using Syracuse basketball innuendo isn't the way to go, IMO

I give Bill Pollian credit for atleast putting his name publicly. All of these sources stayed anomyous.

 

[Alsacs]

So the number is 40. Time to vacate SB's. And an asterisk needs to go next to Patriots* too.

You are awesome. Thank you sir.

 

[Alsacs]

This ESPN report is giving everyone the vapors? All sports teams steal signs. The St. Louis Cardinals HACKED A COMPUTER and no one cared. Please bring the Patriots hate it is great. To treat the Patriots like they are morally compromised criminals amidst a sea of rule-worshipping choirboys is disingenuous and insane.

 

[rrlbees]

You are awesome. Thank you sir.

Thanks.

Why do you take other people's opinions so personal?

 

[Alsacs]

Thanks.

Why do you take other people's opinions so personal?

Honest to god I am not taking this personal. I actually think you are smart person based on what you say in other threads(non Patriot related). I just find it laughable you ignore facts about the Deflategate case and then take another poster saying 40 tapes without reading the article and developing your own opinion.

This article is rehashing stuff from 8 years ago and is including all new rumors without any evidence. In Deflategate Ted Wells cleared Belichick of any wrongdoing. So none of Spygate stuff should matter at all to Deflategate because that had been about Brady. This was intentionally dumped by ESPN to make the Patriots look bad.

 

[Orangeman]

This ESPN report is giving everyone the vapors? All sports teams steal signs. The St. Louis Cardinals HACKED A COMPUTER and no one cared. Please bring the Patriots hate it is great. To treat the Patriots like they are morally compromised criminals amidst a sea of rule-worshipping choirboys is disingenuous and insane.

This is all deflection.

The Patriots set up a nerve center to systematically cheat and gain an advantage using information that they were not supposed to have. To be honest with you it's smart and what I'd always suspected was going on

You can call me and others quacks all day, doesn't bother me, i know what a loser I am already...but I suspect this won't be going away tomorrow like you seem to think/want it will.

Why am I so confident? I've been saying for years, through careful pattern-recognition (I tend to want to scream at the unfairness of what's on the TV much, much more when the Patriots are on it), that the Patriots were cheating.

I firmly believe that you make your own luck in sports and life...up to a point. But noone is good enough to get the ongoing benefit of luck/bad lack the Pats have had...how much? My unscientific estimation is about 600% above normal.

 

[Alsacs]

This is all deflection.

The Patriots set up a nerve center to systematically cheat and gain an advantage using information that they were not supposed to have. To be honest with you it's smart and what I'd always suspected was going on

You can call me and others quacks all day, doesn't bother me, i know what a loser I am already...but I suspect this won't be going away tomorrow like you seem to think/want it will.

Why am I so confident? I've been saying for years, through careful pattern-recognition (I tend to want to scream at the unfairness of what's on the TV much, much more when the Patriots are on it), that the Patriots were cheating.

I firmly believe that you make your own luck in sports and life...up to a point. But noone is good enough to get the ongoing benefit of luck/bad lack the Pats have had...how much? My unscientific estimation is about 600% above normal.

The tapes before 2006 were not illegal even if you don't care. The rule against taping teams was prohibited for usage during that actual game. Once Anderson sent out that memo the rule was clear. Here were the rules prior to the memo in 2007. Thus video taping on the sideline for future game usage was not illegal.

Article IX of the NFL Constitution and By-laws which reads:
“Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”
Pages A105-A106 of the league’s Policy Manual for Member Clubs Volume II: Game Operations 2007 edition: Miscellaneous Rules and Regulations, Section A. reads:
“No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, or in the locker room during the game.”

 

[Cusefan0307]

You actually could tape games in the NFL if cameras are in certain places. It just can't be from the Sideline.

The timing of this article is predictable. After the Deflategate loss by Goodell, before the opener. It comes off as a smear campaign. Again, I'm not saying the Pats are perfect, but this comes off as a smear campaign. This actually makes Brady look better. They were after him because they couldn't get Belichick this time.

A lot of this is sour grapes, from some incredibly sore losing organizations IMO. Especially the Colts. Maybe Manning and Luck shouldn't lay soo many eggs in big games. Maybe John Kasay shouldn't of kicked the ball out of bounds at the end of SB38. Maybe Martz/Reid should of tried to run the ball and not let Warner and McNabb get blasted for four quarters. I mean come on. If the Pats were so good at cheating why did they go 5-11 with Bledsoe? Was he not just as good a cheater as Brady was?

 

[Alsacs]

You actually could tape games in the NFL if cameras are in certain places. It just can't be from the Sideline.

The timing of this article is predictable. After the Deflategate loss by Goodell, before the opener. It comes off as a smear campaign. Again, I'm not saying the Pats are perfect, but this comes off as a smear campaign. This actually makes Brady look better. They were after him because they couldn't get Belichick this time.

A lot of this is sour grapes, from some incredibly sore losing organizations IMO. Especially the Colts. Maybe Manning and Luck shouldn't lay soo many eggs in big games. Maybe John Kasay shouldn't of kicked the ball out of bounds at the end of SB38. Maybe Martz/Reid should of tried to run the ball and not let Warner and McNabb get blasted for four quarters. I mean come on. If the Pats were so good at cheating why did they go 5-11 with Bledsoe? Was he not just as good a cheater as Brady was?

Shh the Patriots should be 19-0 every year.
Some great points I read.
I'm just happy the 2001 Steelers can blame stolen signals for losing and not their special teams breakdown or Kordell shitting the bed.
And I'm happy for Rams - who scored a TD on their only SB36 red zone appearance but can now blame the Pats for stealing red zone signals.
And I'm happy for the Eagles - who fell apart down stretch in SB39 like they did in 20 other McNabb/Reid games but now have a good excuse.
And I'm happy for the Colts - who kept blowing big games to NE until Polian got the NFL to change the passing rules, but now have an excuse.
And I'm happy for Carolina - went 14-18 in the seasons before & after SB38, heavy underdogs in 03 playoffs, but somehow robbed of a title.

 

[Ward]

Shh the Patriots should be 19-0 every year.
Some great points I read.
I'm just happy the 2001 Steelers can blame stolen signals for losing and not their special teams breakdown or Kordell shitting the bed.
And I'm happy for Rams - who scored a TD on their only SB36 red zone appearance but can now blame the Pats for stealing red zone signals.
And I'm happy for the Eagles - who fell apart down stretch in SB39 like they did in 20 other McNabb/Reid games but now have a good excuse.
And I'm happy for the Colts - who kept blowing big games to NE until Polian got the NFL to change the passing rules, but now have an excuse.
And I'm happy for Carolina - went 14-18 in the seasons before & after SB38, heavy underdogs in 03 playoffs, but somehow robbed of a title.

I saw these Bill Simmons tweets too and didn't really understand his point so figure I'll ask you since you seem like you might be a Pats fan and posted them here.

What does Carolina's record the year before or the year after their SB run have to do with them not deserving an equal playing field in SB38?

Why does Philly not playing perfect down the stretch mean that any possible advantage NE potentially had in the preceding points of the game no longer matter?

Why does Pittsburgh playing bad on special teams render the advantage given to NE's defense completely void?

Same with the Colts, Rams, and any other team who has a gripe at the alleged actions by the Pats. You can't take one piece of the game and then say because "Team A" wasn't perfect in this regard then it doesn't matter if the other things happened or not they still would've lost anyways. You've mentioned how a lot of people wouldn't go on record but there were also quite a few people who did and said pretty alarming things. At this point with all the smoke surrounding these accusations for years now it's pretty tough for me as a neutral 3rd party to say Pats are just a victim of their own success and the jealousy it provokes.

I live in Boston and have been surrounded by Deflategate and the whole time have thought it was completely ridiculous. Seeing this report come out now makes a lot more sense as to why Goodell was so blindly stubborn in trying to stick it to NE. The ESPN version makes a lot more sense than the previously communicated version of Spygate as well. Reading both the SI and ESPN report makes me think for the first time ever that Goodell really may be on thin ice.

 

[Alsacs]

I saw these Bill Simmons tweets too and didn't really understand his point so figure I'll ask you since you seem like you might be a Pats fan and posted them here.

What does Carolina's record the year before or the year after their SB run have to do with them not deserving an equal playing field in SB38?

Why does Philly not playing perfect down the stretch mean that any possible advantage NE potentially had in the preceding points of the game no longer matter?

Why does Pittsburgh playing bad on special teams render the advantage given to NE's defense completely void?

Same with the Colts, Rams, and any other team who has a gripe at the alleged actions by the Pats. You can't take one piece of the game and then say because "Team A" wasn't perfect in this regard then it doesn't matter if the other things happened or not they still would've lost anyways. You've mentioned how a lot of people wouldn't go on record but there were also quite a few people who did and said pretty alarming things. At this point with all the smoke surrounding these accusations for years now it's pretty tough for me as a neutral 3rd party to say Pats are just a victim of their own success and the jealousy it provokes.

I live in Boston and have been surrounded by Deflategate and the whole time have thought it was completely ridiculous. Seeing this report come out now makes a lot more sense as to why Goodell was so blindly stubborn in trying to stick it to NE. The ESPN version makes a lot more sense than the previously communicated version of Spygate as well. Reading both the SI and ESPN report makes me think for the first time ever that Goodell really may be on thin ice.

Philly lost that game because their QB didn't play well and couldn't run a hurryup offense when down 10 points
Pittsburgh lost because the Pats returned punt, blocked a FG and scored a TD and the Pitt QB was awful.
Colts lost because their QB couldn't beat the Pats D.
Rams claim their plays were stole when they lost because their QB threw a pick-6, their WR fumbled and gave the Pats 14 points.

Spygate was Belichick being arrogant when the NFL sent a memo saying stop filming on the sideline. He continued filming on the sideline instead of the okay area. The team was penalized and lost a 1st round pick. Teams wanted more when that was an unprecedented penalty. The Broncos cheated the Salary Cap in their 2 Super Bowl winning seasons and only lost a 3rd round pick.

Deflategate was about rehabbing Goodell's image. Everyone hates the Patriots so he over-penalized them for something they could never prove. The team ate the penalties in a quid pro quo with Goodell to get Brady's suspension wiped. Goodell did not do this and so a Federal Judge looked at the case and wiped it out because he didn't see anything to penalize for what the NFL did.

Goodell is not on thin ice that ESPN piece shows the owners love what he did. One owner said this Deflategate stuff was a makeup for Spygate which is a joke when they aren't related at all and Wells cleared the team of wrongdoing.
Goodell has two owners who hate him now Benson-Saints and now Kraft family-Patriots.