Cooney

[edowd26]

First of all, Cooney has never been at the half court line except passing over it in a mad dash to get to the corner outside the arc. No one is guarding him tightly 30 feet from the goal.

Second, having a man on him 18'9" from the basket does prevent a lot of cheating of his man back into the paint. But this is normal for most teams.

Firstly, obviously I was exaggerating. Secondly cooney opened lanes like moses killed ramesses. Get some.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

You were going good until "Make no mistake, by Feb 2015, we have the best backcourt in the country". It is that kind of unnecesary hyperbole thrown into an otherwise decent post that ruins it. We have a frosh and a soph manning the 2 positions and very little usable offensive depth. But it is okay, we have a tremendous front court and we only need a good backcourt.

My point was to connect TC's growth from last year to this year and to offer a glimpse of what's to come (nothing I can quantify, just a gut feeling...) if/when it were to continue. We don't and won't have the best backcourt in the country now or this year, no dobut.

However, I don't believe my comment to be hyperbole, not even close. I didn't say we have the best backcourt in the country today and didn't even say we'd have it this season, or at the beginning of next season. I said Feb 2015. By the end of Tyler's Soph year, I'm confident he'll be the best PG in the nation. I'm also confident that with another 2/3 of this season and almost an entire season next year, TC will be able to grow even more to complete the best backcourt in in the country. Not sure why you think it's a big reach?

Another reason why I bring Ennis into this is that he will make TC that much better. If Ennis was the pg on some of the josh wright, or edwards teams, he would've done wonders for some other guys, too. Guys like Gmac, Nichols, etc, would've gotten much better looks.

 

[Townie72]

Firstly, obviously I was exaggerating. Secondly cooney opened lanes like moses killed ramesses. Get some.

You haven't had a wee drop today, have you?

Who or what is "ramesses"? I'm afraid my Old Testament knowledge --- if that's the source --- is a little spotty.

Although the opening of lanes by a player standing in the corner does seem almost miraculous. Isn't there a lot of screening and pick setting occurring in where that action is?"

 

[edowd26]

You haven't had a wee drop today, have you?

Who or what is "ramesses"? I'm afraid my Old Testament knowledge --- if that's the source --- is a little spotty.

Although the opening of lanes by a player standing in the corner does seem almost miraculous. Isn't there a lot of screening and pick setting occurring in where that action is?"

1. Are you a leprechaun?

2. Old testament or about 20 movies (including a Disney version) portraying what I'm talking about.

3. Drew Harrison for 27minutes. We shot over fifty percent. Cooney.

4. Come at me bro.

 

[RealSUFan]

What is really behind these ludicrous accusations about "Trevor's Army"? Trevor's generally been playing very, very well this year, but yesterday he had a bad game, at least partially because he was extremely well-defended. And yes, playing him so close opened up some opportunities for other players like Ennis and Fair, which they took advantage of. That's a perfectly reasonable assessment of the game, even if you don't agree with it. It's also the most obvious assessment.

If you attack people for being part of Trevor's Army just because they hold this perfectly normal point of view, what it ironically shows is that you yourself have an irrational bias related to Cooney.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

My point was to connect TC's growth from last year to this year and to offer a glimpse of what's to come (nothing I can quantify, just a gut feeling...) if/when it were to continue. We don't and won't have the best backcourt in the country now or this year, no dobut.

However, I don't believe my comment to be hyperbole, not even close. I didn't say we have the best backcourt in the country today and didn't even say we'd have it this season, or at the beginning of next season. I said Feb 2015. By the end of Tyler's Soph year, I'm confident he'll be the best PG in the nation. I'm also confident that with another 2/3 of this season and almost an entire season next year, TC will be able to grow even more to complete the best backcourt in in the country. Not sure why you think it's a big reach?

Another reason why I bring Ennis into this is that he will make TC that much better. If Ennis was the pg on some of the josh wright, or edwards teams, he would've done wonders for some other guys, too. Guys like Gmac, Nichols, etc, would've gotten much better looks.

I missed the year thing, 2015. You're right SU should be up there then. Best might still be a stretch, but really good - true. And we should have more depth, KJ2 and hopefully another shooter will emerge. But defensively there is still much work to be done.

 

[pearl31]

What "attack dogs"? Saying a player was a non-factor in a game is an observation not an "attack". All the attacking on here seems to be directed at anyone suggesting that TC "had less than a stellar day".

I wonder if anyone on here actually expected the Hawaii scenario to play out in the rest of the season. That is, teams through the season would allow us in the half court offense to set TC up at the arc, allow him to square up, catch the ball in rhythm and bomb 3's.

agenda much?

 

[Townie72]

1. Are you a leprechaun?

2. Old testament or about 20 movies (including a Disney version) portraying what I'm talking about.

3. Drew Harrison for 27minutes. We shot over fifty percent. Cooney.

4. Come at me bro.

Since you already confessed to exaggeration, it's now hard for me to know what part of what you write is serious and what isn't.

Cooney was in the game for 27 minutes. But he wasn't being guarded for 27 minutes. That only occurred in the approx. 50% of the 27 minutes that SU was on offense.

What did we shoot percentage wise when Gbinije was in the game?

 

[TheCusian]

Examples from this thread? I didn't see any. All I saw was mild criticism or straight-forward facts that Trevor's Army assumes are attacks.

What I saw was a gross over reaction and name calling over one guy having a one bad game. You're on a Syracuse message board raging over a Syracuse player getting the benefit of the doubt after a questionable outing? It's not a popularity contest between players on the team - it's about the guys playing as a team and winning games.

 

[edowd26]

Since you already confessed to exaggeration, it's now hard for me to know what part of what you write is serious and what isn't.

Cooney was in the game for 27 minutes. But he wasn't being guarded for 27 minutes. That only occurred in the approx. 50% of the 27 minutes that SU was on offense.

What did we shoot percentage wise when Gbinije was in the game?

1. Since you can't discern from the obvious exaggerations I will be heart attack serious from now on or tell you when I am being otherwise.

2. You talk about not taking me serious then pull a fake statistic you invented to help your argument.

3.with in the game we shot Gbinje 38.68 %. That is a made up state. Because I can make up stuff too.

4. Come at me bro.

 

[Townie72]

agenda much?

Yup, you got me, I do have an agenda.

My agenda is that I want to see SU win the ACC regular season title, the ACC tournament and the NCAA tournament.

I don't care how we get that done.

I believe, however, that the development of the half-court inside game is the key to doing any or all of this. And that we still have a way to go to get to this. In my mind, further development of Grant is a huge key. In my mind he has great upside.

I'd gladly trade wins against Cal or Minnesota or Baylor to build this inside game. As far as I am concerned Hawaii was the equivalent of the NFL pre-season except for its tangential value in the NCAA seeding process. I don't care a rip about the current #2 ranking. It's near meaningless. It just paints a bigger target on our back.

When the ACC season starts. the real season begins. How well we have prepared ourselves is all that will matter.

 

[TBCuse11]

What is really behind these ludicrous accusations about "Trevor's Army"? Trevor's generally been playing very, very well this year, but yesterday he had a bad game, at least partially because he was extremely well-defended. And yes, playing him so close opened up some opportunities for other players like Ennis and Fair, which they took advantage of. That's a perfectly reasonable assessment of the game, even if you don't agree with it. It's also the most obvious assessment.

If you attack people for being part of Trevor's Army just because they hold this perfectly normal point of view, what it ironically shows is that you yourself have an irrational bias related to Cooney.

This post is the problem. Ennis and CJ have had the same exact lanes every game this year. Both have driven at will. That is not relevant at all. That is a constant. The variable was Cooney being guarded and not being able to produce. its amazing how when someone ignores what they saw and create ways to say Trevor was valuable yesterday , they are a great fan making an "obvious assessment". Yet when a point is made that states Trevor was awful yesterday, its ripped to shreds.

For some reason i expect a little more unbiased thought then i have seen in this thread from the Army. Too bad.

 

[kuethstheman]

Settle down guys. We're all on the same side. And this kind of silly argument could break out all the time if we let it.

1. I don't believe there's a Cooney's Army
2. I don't believe anyone wants Cooney to suck
3. One gross exaggeration "he had a HORRIBLE game" can start an escalating argument where most people are saying things they don't really mean.
4. He didn't contribute much.
5. It's nice that he's such a threat that his man wouldn't help. We're not used to that. Most teams that are very athletic and could do that won't because they want to play team defense. He'll get plenty of points against teams as athletic as STJ.
6. No matter what he says, I don't think JB's capable of getting his big men to set really good picks. The only players that ever have did so from day 1. Cooney won't be getting that much more help than he got yesterday.
7. He may be capable of getting his own shot but at this point in his career he's not going to try to force things. He's athletic enough, though I don't know if he's got the handle. Maybe we'll see him try later this year or next. BTW, anyone that starts a point with "he'll never" should be banned.
8. Assuming he wasn't sick, I'm hoping he either gets in better shape or maintains enough desire over 40 minutes to keep running. Maybe he did except for iso plays, if Bees is right. He came pretty close to running non-stop for the entire game a couple times in Maui. During those games I thought I was seeing the second coming of Bill Bradley, the original Energizer Bunny.
9. He didn't have a HORRIBLE game.
10. Give it a rest and let this thread die. Besides, another thread has already taken over as the Cooney battleground.

 

[edowd26]

This post is the problem. Ennis and CJ have had the same exact lanes every game this year. Both have driven at will. That is not relevant at all. That is a constant. The variable was Cooney being guarded and not being able to produce. its amazing how when someone ignores what they saw and create ways to say Trevor was valuable yesterday , they are a great fan making an "obvious assessment". Yet when a point is made that states Trevor was awful yesterday, its ripped to shreds.

For some reason i expect a little more unbiased thought then i have seen in this thread from the Army. Too bad.

That's because every game, someone has guarded cooney. And when they didn't? He averaged 15 points per game. Weirddddddd?

 

[edowd26]

This post is the problem. Ennis and CJ have had the same exact lanes every game this year. Both have driven at will. That is not relevant at all. That is a constant. The variable was Cooney being guarded and not being able to produce. its amazing how when someone ignores what they saw and create ways to say Trevor was valuable yesterday , they are a great fan making an "obvious assessment". Yet when a point is made that states Trevor was awful yesterday, its ripped to shreds.

For some reason i expect a little more unbiased thought then i have seen in this thread from the Army. Too bad.

Know who the general of this fictitious army you've created would be :JamesArthur Boeheim.

But you know way more than that dipshit.

 

[TheCusian]

This post is the problem. Ennis and CJ have had the same exact lanes every game this year. Both have driven at will. That is not relevant at all. That is a constant. The variable was Cooney being guarded and not being able to produce. its amazing how when someone ignores what they saw and create ways to say Trevor was valuable yesterday , they are a great fan making an "obvious assessment". Yet when a point is made that states Trevor was awful yesterday, its ripped to shreds.

For some reason i expect a little more unbiased thought then i have seen in this thread from the Army. Too bad.

The obvious was that Lavin saw the screens/sets that were being run for Cooney and had a player/scheme that worked to limit him. That combined with a "less energy" game and we all saw what happened. Cooney will be fine - last I checked he can still shoot and we still have a HoF coach who can get him open.

Now - onto your point about the "exact lanes every game" ... this is simply not true. A shooter always opens up lanes/opportunities for other players. ALWAYS. It's not biased info one way or another - it's basketball 101. The threat of Cooney shooting is a big deal. Our zone yesterday was packed in, right? They had no shooting on the floor. They were all inside passing and rebounds off of misses. You could make the case that they played well enough to win - had they a player like Cooney to knock down shots (who could also guard - there one shooter was bad on D).

I actually think JB took Cooney out because of his D in the game. He let the guards penetrate in the 2nd.

 

[Townie72]

1. Since you can't discern from the obvious exaggerations I will be heart attack serious from now on or tell you when I am being otherwise.

2. You talk about not taking me serious then pull a fake statistic you invented to help your argument.

3.with in the game we shot Gbinje 38.68 %. That is a made up state. Because I can make up stuff too.

4. Come at me bro.

What's fake about that statistic?

Fact: Cooney was in the game 27 minutes.

Fact: During the 27 minutes TC was in the game, SU was on both offense and defense.

Guess: During the 27 minutes TC was in the game, SU was on offense for about half that time (or 13.5 minutes).

Supposition: SU was in a half court offense (not in transition) a period less than 13.5 minutes. I'll guess at 10 minutes. But you can use any number you want.

Question: If SU shooting percentage when Gbinije was in the game was greater than the average for the rest of the game, what does that tell you? We don;t have that number unless someone wants to rewatch the game and keep the stats.

 

[ORRange]

What's fake about that statistic?

Fact: Cooney was in the game 27 minutes.

Fact: During the 27 minutes TC was in the game, SU was on both offense and defense.

Guess: During the 27 minutes TC was in the game, SU was on offense for about half that time (or 13.5 minutes).

Supposition: SU was in a half court offense (not in transition) a period less than 13.5 minutes. I'll guess at 10 minutes. But you can use any number you want.

Question: If SU shooting percentage when Gbinije was in the game was greater than the average for the rest of the game, what does that tell you? We don;t have that number unless someone wants to rewatch the game and keep the stats.

This is just like this new fangled math that I have trouble helping my daughter with.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

What's fake about that statistic?

Fact: Cooney was in the game 27 minutes.

Fact: During the 27 minutes TC was in the game, SU was on both offense and defense.

Guess: During the 27 minutes TC was in the game, SU was on offense for about half that time (or 13.5 minutes).

Supposition: SU was in a half court offense (not in transition) a period less than 13.5 minutes. I'll guess at 10 minutes. But you can use any number you want.

Question: If SU shooting percentage when Gbinije was in the game was greater than the average for the rest of the game, what does that tell you? We don;t have that number unless someone wants to rewatch the game and keep the stats.

Fact, 73% of all stats are made up. 52% of all people know that

 

[rrlbees]

This post is the problem. Ennis and CJ have had the same exact lanes every game this year. Both have driven at will. That is not relevant at all. That is a constant. The variable was Cooney being guarded and not being able to produce. its amazing how when someone ignores what they saw and create ways to say Trevor was valuable yesterday , they are a great fan making an "obvious assessment". Yet when a point is made that states Trevor was awful yesterday, its ripped to shreds. For some reason i expect a little more unbiased thought then i have seen in this thread from the Army. Too bad.

Your posts are the problem and JB thinks so too.

"Usually, we get him shots,'' Boeheim said. "We could not get him any shots. Part of that, though, by them guarding him out there, that's why Tyler could drive and C.J. could get it in there.''

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[RealSUFan]

This post is the problem. Ennis and CJ have had the same exact lanes every game this year. Both have driven at will. That is not relevant at all. That is a constant. The variable was Cooney being guarded and not being able to produce. its amazing how when someone ignores what they saw and create ways to say Trevor was valuable yesterday , they are a great fan making an "obvious assessment". Yet when a point is made that states Trevor was awful yesterday, its ripped to shreds.

For some reason i expect a little more unbiased thought then i have seen in this thread from the Army. Too bad.

To me yesterday the lanes looked really did look more open for Ennis than they have been on average. I didn't notice that so much for Fair, but it makes sense that Fair would have gotten some of the touches that Cooney would have gotten if Cooney could have gotten free.

I'm just calling it as I see it. I have no idea what this weird obsession about an imaginary "Trevor's Army" is all about. I know I'm not a member, so frankly, it sounds deranged.

 

[edowd26]

To me yesterday the lanes looked really did look more open for Ennis than they have been on average. I didn't notice that so much for Fair, but it makes sense that Fair would have gotten some of the touches that Cooney would have gotten if Cooney could have gotten free.

I'm just calling it as I see it. I have no idea what this weird obsession about an imaginary "Trevor's Army" all about. I know I'm not a member, so frankly, it sounds deranged.

Obviously its weird that a bunch of fans of Syracuse think a stat line of 15vpts, 3 ends, 2assists and nearly 3 steals is good for a div 1 2 guard.

 

[rrlbees]

Obviously its weird that a bunch of fans of Syracuse think a stat line of 15vpts, 3 ends, 2assists and nearly 3 steals is good for a div 1 2 guard.

Because it is the same people who said he was nothing and wouldn't start, then when he was killing it, they remained silent about it. Only to come out of hiding during his first bad game. Now they twist the facts, lie, make things up, and even disagree with JB. Don't believe them when they say they want Cooney to do well, they do not. Perfection for them would be for the team to win and Cooney playing bad and riding pine.

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[edowd26]

Ill admit I thought G was going to be the starter and better player. I was wrong. No shame in that. Cooney has blossomed into a very good SG and I have no reason to believe he won't continue to improve. Nothing they can say will sway me from this belief. Cooney belongs here, not by default, but because he is better than any 2 guard we've faced yet.

Because it is the same people who said he was nothing and wouldn't start, then when he was killing it, they remained silent about it. Only to come out of hiding during his first bad game. Now they twist the facts, lie, make things up, and even disagree with JB. Don't believe them when they say they want Cooney to do well, they do not. Perfection for them would be for the team to win and Cooney playing bad and riding pine.

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[SarasotaPaul]

Can't sugar-coat it -- tough outing for Cooney. But his teammates picked it up; Gbinije played well & contributed on D.

Other games, Cooney will pick it up.

Nothing to sugar coat. St. Johns made sure to cover Cooney with their best defender at all times and at all costs. This allowed space for others to go off on them. This team doesn't seem to care who scores just as long as they win. They also don't have anyone auditioning for the NBA to the teams detriment as so many in the past have done.

I'd say Cooney had a very good outing. He didn't force shots. He played hard. His team won. Those are the only statistics that count on my scorecard.

This team is Looooooooooooooaddddddddedddddddd. And they are getting better. Damn I love it!