Credit to Mike Waters…

[kcsu]

1000% agree with this. The zone is what helped JB get his long-awaited respect. I can't see him ever parting from it, as it has become his identity. The problem is it was much more effective in the Michael Jordan-wannabe era than the Steph Curry-wannabe era and he is unwilling or unable to adjust (other than tweaking the zone here or there).

Adapt or die. Just ask Kodak

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Adapt or die. Just ask Kodak

Alligators

 

[capeorange]

Do they actually coach it though? Emphasize things? Correct things?

Or do they just “play it” while all of the coaching focus is on the offense?

What offense?

 

[PhatOrange]

Who loves Chris Bell?

I think Chris Bell is a pretty talented player who can shoot. He just struggled as a freshman to do the things that weren’t required of him in high school like rebound. Pretty normal for a freshman not to be able to hit the ground running.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think Chris Bell is a pretty talented player who can shoot. He just struggled as a freshman to do the things that weren’t required of him in high school like rebound. Pretty normal for a freshman not to be able to hit the ground running.

32% in conference play which is good for 5th on the team including behind Benny and Mintz. Not sold. He needs a lot of improvement.

 

[OrangePA]

Another example of bad faith bs. This board sucks because of this non stop misrepresenting of what everyone says. Yours was just a little more shameless

"Shameless"?

After all we have been through over the years??

I was expecting something similar to your timeless response to so many coaches, players and posters with whom you have disagreed since way back when: some form of the word "stupid"

Seriously though, the talk about the zone defense as the problem with this team is really over the top.

The problem is not the system. The problem is not the technical coaching in practice or during the games.

The basic problem is a lack of talent. It may also include a lack of intensity.

Jesse Edwards, with his tendency to commit fouls on virtually every defensive encounter would probably last ten minutes matching up in a man to man defense.

Joe Girardi would be unable to mark a two guard in a man to man defense.

Boeheim may be old, but he is still as smart as any person in college BB and he is there every day.

He isn't playing a man defense for a reason - and that reason is not that he doesn't care about winning.

It is precisely because he cares about winning.

 

[Cusefan0307]

"Shameless"?

After all we have been through over the years??

I was expecting something similar to your timeless response to so many coaches, players and posters with whom you have disagreed since way back when: some form of the word "stupid"

Seriously though, the talk about the zone defense as the problem with this team is really over the top.

The problem is not the system. The problem is not the technical coaching in practice or during the games.

The basic problem is a lack of talent. It may also include a lack of intensity.

Jesse Edwards, with his tendency to commit fouls on virtually every defensive encounter would probably last ten minutes matching up in a man to man defense.

Joe Girardi would be unable to mark a two guard in a man to man defense.

Boeheim may be old, but he is still as smart as any person in college BB and he is there every day.

He isn't playing a man defense for a reason - and that reason is not that he doesn't care about winning.

It is precisely because he cares about winning.

Nah. The reason we don’t play man is because we’ve been 90% zone since 1995 so he doesn’t feel comfortable coaching it.

He always goes back to what’s comfortable.

 

[Bayside44]

"Shameless"?

After all we have been through over the years??

I was expecting something similar to your timeless response to so many coaches, players and posters with whom you have disagreed since way back when: some form of the word "stupid"

Seriously though, the talk about the zone defense as the problem with this team is really over the top.

The problem is not the system. The problem is not the technical coaching in practice or during the games.

The basic problem is a lack of talent. It may also include a lack of intensity.

Jesse Edwards, with his tendency to commit fouls on virtually every defensive encounter would probably last ten minutes matching up in a man to man defense.

Joe Girardi would be unable to mark a two guard in a man to man defense.

Boeheim may be old, but he is still as smart as any person in college BB and he is there every day.

He isn't playing a man defense for a reason - and that reason is not that he doesn't care about winning.

It is precisely because he cares about winning.

Agree with lack of intensity. People make fun of Hurley's schtick a lot, but his kids play like they're fighting for their next meal.

It's mostly talent, cannot scheme a bunch of average talent freshmen and a couple of role players to win in college hoops.

 

[Scooch]

"Shameless"?

After all we have been through over the years??

I was expecting something similar to your timeless response to so many coaches, players and posters with whom you have disagreed since way back when: some form of the word "stupid"

Seriously though, the talk about the zone defense as the problem with this team is really over the top.

The problem is not the system. The problem is not the technical coaching in practice or during the games.

The basic problem is a lack of talent. It may also include a lack of intensity.

Jesse Edwards, with his tendency to commit fouls on virtually every defensive encounter would probably last ten minutes matching up in a man to man defense.

Joe Girardi would be unable to mark a two guard in a man to man defense.

Boeheim may be old, but he is still as smart as any person in college BB and he is there every day.

He isn't playing a man defense for a reason - and that reason is not that he doesn't care about winning.

It is precisely because he cares about winning.

It's not a convincing argument, OPA.

Let me ask your opinion on this... Why has SU had 20+ years of players not able to effectively play man D?

Keep in mind, not only have we recruited players who predominantly played man in high school, but we also have imported a slew of excellent transfers who played man at their prior college.

I'm sure a man D would be lousy this season. I know our zone is lousy this season. And I agree that the sum of our current talent is not up to snuff.

But why are we "a zone team", not just this year, but every year? And is it because we've never had players capable of playing any other defense?

 

[Scooch]

Agree with lack of intensity. People make fun of Hurley's schtick a lot, but his kids play like they're fighting for their next meal.

It's mostly talent, cannot scheme a bunch of average talent freshmen and a couple of role players to win in college hoops.

Thing is... when we had better talent, we played the zone too.

 

[Eric15]

"Shameless"?

After all we have been through over the years??

I was expecting something similar to your timeless response to so many coaches, players and posters with whom you have disagreed since way back when: some form of the word "stupid"

Seriously though, the talk about the zone defense as the problem with this team is really over the top.

The problem is not the system. The problem is not the technical coaching in practice or during the games.

The basic problem is a lack of talent. It may also include a lack of intensity.

Jesse Edwards, with his tendency to commit fouls on virtually every defensive encounter would probably last ten minutes matching up in a man to man defense.

Joe Girardi would be unable to mark a two guard in a man to man defense.

Boeheim may be old, but he is still as smart as any person in college BB and he is there every day.

He isn't playing a man defense for a reason - and that reason is not that he doesn't care about winning.

It is precisely because he cares about winning.

In your opinion, what is so unique about SU basketball that we're the only program out of 363 that can't teach a big man not to foul out in 10 minutes of man-to-man defense? Like if the New Jersey Institute of Technology can figure that out, why can't the 5th winningest program in history figure it out?

 

[elimunelson]

Not to mention…We were down 26-10 vs Oklahoma State in the second round. All zone.

The second we went press, we made stops. Most because OSU played like spazzes and kept going directly at McNeil, which also, by the way, shows how the game as changed. Those dudes would be pulling up for 3 now

what a game to be at!

 

[Scooch]

In your opinion, what is so unique about SU basketball that we're the only program out of 363 that can't teach a big man not to foul out in 10 minutes of man-to-man defense? Like if the New Jersey Institute of Technology can figure that out, why can't the 5th winningest program in history figure it out?

It's silly. Jesse wouldn't foul out every game. I don't even care all that much about zone vs. man, but some of the arguments as to why we MUST play zone, including the ones from the head coach, are lunacy.

 

[PhatOrange]

32% in conference play which is good for 5th on the team including behind Benny and Mintz. Not sold. He needs a lot of improvement.

You can’t cherry pick - in conference. Are those Bennys stats when he was a freshman in conference? Benny as a frosh overall was 33% last year. (.091 from 3). He was flat horrible, both talent and mental. But now he’s a sophomore.

I don’t really need stats to tell me Bell has a sweet stroke, one of the best we’ve had in awhile, and had one of the better freshman SF campaigns in a long time. 6.6 ppg. My support of his shooting doesn’t mean he doesn’t need work in other areas.

Mintz has a better overall % because he makes a lot of layups. His outside shooting is not better. But shooting stats can be a bit goofy anyways as Bells overall shooting % is better than Girard’s. It’s not like these things are created equally.

People bag on his defense but he’s one of the more active players moving from high to low. He gets hurt getting caught out of position a lot with inside help. That’ll improve over time.

If Bell works hard to improve his overall game he has the raw potential and athleticism to be a high level player but I fear that won’t happen and probably not here.

 

[Knicks411]

NCAA College Men's Basketball DI current team Stats | NCAA.com

Discover the current NCAA Division I Men's Basketball leaders in every stats category, as well as historic leaders.

www.ncaa.com

we’re currently 266 in rebounding margin

Jims point was “actually it’s not that bad because we get turnovers”

lets pretend that’s the case... but we all know it‘s not when 265 teams have better rebounding margins.

our turnover margin?

NCAA College Men's Basketball DI current team Stats | NCAA.com

Discover the current NCAA Division I Men's Basketball leaders in every stats category, as well as historic leaders.

www.ncaa.com

99th. not like top 10 to counter the 265, 99th

you want to have more shots and possessions. Not the same. The idea Jim would suggest that as smugly as he did was absurd

There is something to his argument. In general at least. If you force a lot of turnovers, thats fewer shots for the other team, so fewer opportunities for them to miss and for us to get rebounds.

The problem? Well we're 143rd in the country in TO% on defense. Not awful. It's a little above average.

We're 352nd in defensive rebounding%! Do you need me tell you that's awful? Because it sure is awful!

 

[CuseCPT]

Speaking of rebounding woes, I'm pretty sure we all witnessed history this year. I'd be very surprised if a team shooting 3 airballs in a row has even happened before. You have to shoot 3 airballs in a row and get the offensive rebounds. That has to at least be as rare as a triple play.

E: To clarify, 3 consecutive airballs on the same possession.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You can’t cherry pick - in conference. Are those Bennys stats when he was a freshman in conference? Benny as a frosh overall was 33% last year. (.091 from 3). He was flat horrible, both talent and mental. But now he’s a sophomore.

I don’t really need stats to tell me Bell has a sweet stroke, one of the best we’ve had in awhile, and had one of the better freshman SF campaigns in a long time. 6.6 ppg. My support of his shooting doesn’t mean he doesn’t need work in other areas.

Mintz has a better overall % because he makes a lot of layups. His outside shooting is not better. But shooting stats can be a bit goofy anyways as Bells overall shooting % is better than Girard’s. It’s not like these things are created equally.

People bag on his defense but he’s one of the more active players moving from high to low. He gets hurt getting caught out of position a lot with inside help. That’ll improve over time.

If Bell works hard to improve his overall game he has the raw potential and athleticism to be a high level player but I fear that won’t happen and probably not here.

And yet we have another freshmen shooting 40% from 3, but aesthetically it does not look as pretty so therefore he can't be a good shooter!

 

[Cusefan0307]

Do we really have fans that think Jerami Grant, James Southerland, Cj Fair, Brandon Triche, Dion Waiters, MCW, and Rakeem Christmas could not play man defense?

 

[CuseCPT]

Do we really have fans that think Jerami Grant, James Southerland, Cj Fair, Brandon Triche, Dion Waiters, MCW, and Rakeem Christmas could not play man defense?

If JB tells them that, they believe it. After all, "we aren't in practice."

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's silly. Jesse wouldn't foul out every game. I don't even care all that much about zone vs. man, but some of the arguments as to why we MUST play zone, including the ones from the head coach, are lunacy.

Same, I don't really care what defense the next coach plays as long as it doesn't limit options to do anything else to win basketball games. I'm fully prepared that the next coach is going to have a losing season to start and it's going to bring all of the yahoos out of the woodwork chastising fans for running off an 80 year old HC and his vaunted 2-3 zone.

I think a coach coming in, establishing a roster, and winning 17-19 games in the first season is really the best case scenario. Maybe on a homerun hire, they win 20+. It's probably going to be a 2-3 season turn around as they get situated and get the players they want. I think the portal and AW NIL can shorten that.

 

[Fly Rodder]

If Bell works hard to improve his overall game he has the raw potential and athleticism to be a high level player but I fear that won’t happen and probably not here.

There have been thousands of players like that. Bell is the least effective regular starter in the last ~30 years based on the eye test and the statistics. Points per game in context or otherwise. Mookie Jones could shoot too.

 

[PhatOrange]

And yet we have another freshmen shooting 40% from 3, but aesthetically it does not look as pretty so therefore he can't be a good shooter!

Taylor can also shoot but he wasn't part of the discussion.

 

[charleston]

Hire Pitino...give him a five year contract (he's 70) ...with assistants to groom as his replacement ...he would take us back to tough M to M, full court pressure, run and gun high speed offense like louisville used to have...subs at every time out ...I think most of these guys would stay to play for him..it would be the "Big Story" in college hoops with recruits and portal players to follow ...stop this outdated zone defense that grade school kids can shoot over and high (wish and pray) ball screen offense...get the fans back to the Dome before this program slides into oblivion!!

 

[Bayside44]

Thing is... when we had better talent, we played the zone too.

And we won a lot.

A few weeks ago people had Maliq Brown as some kind of savior because he could more or less catch and put back. The talent stinks in any set we put out there.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The talent stinks in any set we put out there.

Does Colgate have better talent than SU?