Dungey as the #2

[RF2044]

No offense, but mcnabb came after mason, who came after graves, who came after philcox who came after McPherson.

Dungey comes after...

Different times and circumstances...not remotely a similar comparison.

An infinitesimally small percentage of true frosh QBs are ready to contribute at a high level and help their teams win their first year.

McNabb wasn't. Dungey--with all due respect--probably isn't in McNabb's class athletically.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Dungey is probably better prepared based on his high school experience to get the reps you so desperately wanted to see Nassib get in his rs frosh season.
That's why I bring up the Nassib comparison.

Well, part of why I wanted Nassib to get more reps as a redshirt freshman is because I thought he was better than Paulus.:noidea:

 

[texascpa]

Well, that's fair. I think we don't focus on our QBs passing enough. :bat:

That's not what I said.

 

[Jake]

If he's not allowed to run the offense and just hand the ball off, it's a waste. But 20-25 live snaps running the full offense in mop up duty is better than red shirting.

No. Doubt. In. My. Mind.

 

[rrlbees]

Dungey is gonna play and we aren't gonna waste his redshirt year just to hand off. Even if it's 60-0 he's gonna run the offense.

 

[anglerman]

Why the foolish comment about my comment being foolish?

What was foolish was pissing away a highly rated player's year of eligibility for only a handful of snaps that came in the first few games of the season. Remember how great his fourth year was, when Morant posted all conference numbers? Just imagine how much better that fifth year would have been than the first year our coaches flushed down the toilet.

And then project what blowing a year of Dungey's eligibility over a few token snaps would mean vis a vis a player who could be prospective four year starter not having that extra year.

THAT'S what Morant has to do with this situation.

Agai that has nothing to do with this situation. I bet atleast 150 kids or more have played as true freshmen since then. Why do you nit pick one player who also played a completely differnt position. That was 100% just a horrible coaching decision.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

It's not that people don't get it, you can do more than hand off in mop up. Run the base offense and get used to the speed of the game at a live level. It's not black and white.

Mop up by definition is out there just to kill time. No one runs a base O during mop up. I don't expect SU to have a mop up situation after LSU. Having Dungey take a few snaps the first 4 weeks is not worth killing his redshirt. If Dungey is getting Loebesque playing time, it is a huge mistake. If he is getting Nassib in 2009 playing time then by all means let the kid play. I am totally fine letting Dungey get some snaps here and there. I am totally against having him just play against Rhode Island, CMU, and LSU. He would get more out of practice than doing that.

 

[007]

Last season, when people were saying the staff considered Long to be the #2 before his arm soreness.

The difference is that I don't ever recall the staff saying they wanted to get Long game experience as a freshman.

 

[anglerman]

If he is truly the second best QB then he should be the backup. That's simply how it works especially if the other guys aren't very good. That's obviously the case in this situation

 

[RF2044]

If he's not allowed to run the offense and just hand the ball off, it's a waste. But 20-25 live snaps running the full offense in mop up duty is better than red shirting.

No. Doubt. In. My. Mind.

For 20-25 snaps, where legitimately at least half of them would be handoffs -- I'd have serious doubts about that benefit versus the benefit of having a fifth year of eligibility.

Again, the objective is to make a bowl, and to win games THIS YEAR, not build toward the future. Hunt is the starter. We need him to be good in order to make it to a bowl. If he blows it or gets hurt, then yeah -- all bets are off, and its time to accelerate that developmental curve for Dungey. But to get 20 some odd snaps? Not trying to be argumentative, but I just don't agree.

 

[RF2044]

Agai that has nothing to do with this situation. I bet atleast 150 kids or more have played as true freshmen since then. Why do you nit pick one player who also played a completely differnt position. That was 100% just a horrible coaching decision.

How many of those 150 kids have been QBs who've played as true freshman?

Remember Joe Fields? That was another 100% horrible coaching decision. Do you want to witness history repeat itself? Are you honestly advocating giving extensive playing time to a #2 QB in a do or die season for our coaching staff, where qualifying for bowl eligibility is a necessity?

I'm completely at a loss to understand what you're failing to grasp here.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let me ask everyone this since it seems people weren't impressed with Long's PT last year.

Suppose Dungey gets enough snaps to matter, let's call it 60 snaps. Is he better prepared for 2016 if he plays equivalent in those 60 snaps to how Long played last season?

 

[Bayside44]

How'd that work out for Johnny Morant? We need to be more strategic with our long term assets.

If Hunt gets hurt, that's a different story.

We stopped recruiting talent, and Morant was truly burned.

 

[CUSU]

Let me ask everyone this since it seems people weren't impressed with Long's PT last year.

Suppose Dungey gets enough snaps to matter, let's call it 60 snaps. Is he better prepared for 2016 if he plays equivalent in those 60 snaps to how Long played last season?

Yes, better prepared. Knows what to expect, and what he needs to improve on to be more effective against a variety of defenses. I have a feeling he will play better than Long though.

 

[Jake]

For 20-25 snaps, where legitimately at least half of them would be handoffs -- I'd have serious doubts about that benefit versus the benefit of having a fifth year of eligibility. Again, the objective is to make a bowl, and to win games THIS YEAR, not build toward the future. Hunt is the starter. We need him to be good in order to make it to a bowl. If he blows it or gets hurt, then yeah -- all bets are off, and its time to accelerate that developmental curve for Dungey. But to get 20 some odd snaps? Not trying to be argumentative, but I just don't agree.

I guess I don't get your logic. This staff needs to win now...as you said...that's why they named Dungey #2, he's the best backup and he's the guy of the future. The whole point of red shirting him is to look to the future. I guess people, other than the coaches who watch him play everyday, don't think he's better than Wilson and long right now.

 

[GoSU96]

The future is now. Shafer isn't on a five year clock

If he gets through this year he doesn't have another year to struggle and get a Qb his first action

If you know he's better than the guys already here then it's the easiest call in the world

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes, better prepared. Knows what to expect, and what he needs to improve on to be more effective against a variety of defenses. I have a feeling he will play better than Long though.

How much better do we expect Long to be?

 

[GoSU96]

I guess I don't get your logic. This staff needs to win now...as you said...that's why they named Dungey #2, he's the best backup and he's the guy of the future. The whole point of red shirting him is to look to the future. I guess people, other than the coaches who watch him play everyday, don't think he's better than Wilson and long right now.

Wilson and long don't start another game, unless there isn't a choice

 

[TheCusian]

There is a big difference between playing in a game and appearing in a game. If he is actually playing some real action then fine. If he is just appearing in the game to kill time it would be asinine to burn his redshirt. Can't believe there are so many people here who do not get this.

I don't think anyone who wants to burn his redshirt is hoping its to kill time. As usual people are arguing two different things that are not opposites.

Most everyone - only burn his redshirt if it means getting meaningful real action
No one at all - he needs to hand the ball off once and take a knee to be better next year

People are forgetting that Lester said he might not get any action the first 3-4 games. In that case the redshirt is a real option in Oct/Nov.

 

[RF2044]

I guess I don't get your logic. This staff needs to win now...as you said...that's why they named Dungey #2, he's the best backup and he's the guy of the future. The whole point of red shirting him is to look to the future. I guess people, other than the coaches who watch him play everyday, don't think he's better than Wilson and long right now.

Winning now doesn't = looking to the future.

Seems pretty logical.

And has zero to do with Dungey being the second best option. Kudos to him--I hope that's true. I also hope that Dungey doesn't get a snap, while Hunt leads us to a bowl. Because, as you point out, we need to win now.

 

[RF2044]

The future is now. Shafer isn't on a five year clock

If he gets through this year he doesn't have another year to struggle and get a Qb his first action

If you know he's better than the guys already here then it's the easiest call in the world

Sure, if he's better than the guys already here.

And if he isn't, then your argument completely falls apart.

 

[brandokc]

How much better do we expect Long to be?

Long was not physically ready and may never be. That being said, if he had to start on Friday he would be in a better position with the experience he gained last year than without it.

 

[Finwad32]

Mop up by definition is out there just to kill time. No one runs a base O during mop up. I don't expect SU to have a mop up situation after LSU. Having Dungey take a few snaps the first 4 weeks is not worth killing his redshirt. If Dungey is getting Loebesque playing time, it is a huge mistake. If he is getting Nassib in 2009 playing time then by all means let the kid play. I am totally fine letting Dungey get some snaps here and there. I am totally against having him just play against Rhode Island, CMU, and LSU. He would get more out of practice than doing that.

Nobody runs base during mop up? Ok.

If they burn his shirt early, I'm confident he'll get sufficient reps.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Yes, better prepared. Knows what to expect, and what he needs to improve on to be more effective against a variety of defenses. I have a feeling he will play better than Long though.

If we gameplan to get Dungey snaps every week then I think it is a good idea to let him play. If it is just mop up then he isn't learning anything. Remember that coaches rarely throw in the towel no matter what the score. Heck last year Hunt's injury may have been partly Shafer's fault because he was reluctant to admit defeat. If Dungey only sees time vs RI, CMU, and LSU is it worth it? Especially if that time is 85% handoffs?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I guess I don't get your logic. This staff needs to win now...as you said...that's why they named Dungey #2, he's the best backup and he's the guy of the future. The whole point of red shirting him is to look to the future. I guess people, other than the coaches who watch him play everyday, don't think he's better than Wilson and long right now.

It depends on what you view as the purpose of your #2 and how that plays in to winning now. If the purpose is to have someone ready to go in the event Hunt goes down, Dungey is your 2, and you hand him the ball and tell him to win some games this all makes sense. If Dungey is your 2 and we're winning comfortably and Lester says "hey, let's put Dungey in so he can knock some rust off," that isn't accomplishing anything towards the end of winning now.

I don't understand why posters are trying to have this both ways. It's bizarre.

We need to win now! Dungey helps us win now!

We need Dungey ready for 2016! A handful of snaps that don't help us win now does that!

:chest thump: