Is Boeheim Serious???

[AZOrange]

Absolutely. As bad as we are offensively, only reason we almost lost was because of how we played the zone.

ASU scores like 85 ppg or something. How many did they score tonight?

 

[PauliePeppas]

I have to believe Coach lost track of the score. A 4-point lead is better than a 3-point lead with .4 left.

Because people are involved with clock management a team might get more than .4 to get off a shot and if it miraculously goes in it's overtime if the lead was 3, not if the lead was 4.

The more I think about it your probably right

 

[DomeStranger]

I think the good news is we figured out how to get Frank to make a clutch FT.

 

[OrangeDW]

Don't ask that here. JB is a genius.

His zone is outdated af and I'm beyond sick of it.

Notice I said "his zone". The zone can still be a weapon but he's too stubborn to modernize it.

We gave up 56 to a team that averages 83...

 

[orangeinnyc]

Sure that's some of it. But, for the majority of the game, we forced them to take very difficult shots. Look at their shooting %. Look at their 3pt shooting %.

i would also agree to this but ill add on to it, its def part of our staretgy, its no secret we have trouble scoring so we are trying to shorten the game as much as possible and limit possessions on both sides, this is the way this team is going to win this year like it or not, watching them is rarely easy and i expect things to be better next year but i much rather win in a rock fight than lose

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sometimes I think that in another time and circumstance that Jim Boeheim would have been an incredible mime.

 

[longislandcuse]

Debate you how? you complain about the zone 24/7, the zone kept us in the game, a game that we won and held a team that averages 80 plus points to 56, i don't get how your going to argue this...but but but WE WON THE GAME

You don't have any way of knowing the zone kept us in the game. The only time they kept it close in the first half then got the lead in the second half was off banging open threes after we inevitably collapsed on a guy who clearly didn't want to shoot a mid-range jump shot or a midget guard started driving with no intentions of trying to attack our 7'2 Center.

I think our zone could be filthy if the guards paid no mind to a guard getting past them or a 3/4/5 catching a pass at the high post. Obviously deny, but if they get the ball there, force them to make a quick decision. You can't just hang out there offensively and players aren't used to A) Having the ball there and B) Shooting from there. Also C) It's tough to grab momentum off a couple 2 point jump shots.

With our length, if we geared the zone to stop modern day AAU emphasis (Dunks/3 pointers) and encouraged awkward 2 point jumpers, we could have a top ranked defense every year, in every category. This is one of our best defensive teams yet we still allow a ton of open threes and players to duck behind the Center.

Pace of play also greatly factors into our defensive efficiency ratings. PPG are low, limited possessions and teams get antsy. Remember us vs Butler in 2010? We're like 10x worse than that. Every time down the court you can go to the bathroom, microwave some food and let the dog out before we take a shot.

 

[jgeorge322]

Something that happened toward the end of rhe game, battle hit what i thought was a Huge 2. We finally went back ahead. I coukd have sworn it was a 2 and the score said 54-52. Game then went to break and score was 55-52 but the announcers didnt say anything. Am i off on this and was mistaken or is this how the broadcast went?

 

[Briancuse]

He had to think were up 2 only reasonable explanation .

 

[Brooky03]

Don't ask that here. JB is a genius.

His zone is outdated af and I'm beyond sick of it.

Notice I said "his zone". The zone can still be a weapon but he's too stubborn to modernize it.

I like you, but this was a bad post. Really bad. Genius or not, JB's patented zone is the only reason this team is even in the tournament. You have to defend the 3 to win nowadays. JB's version of the 2-3 is the only zone that does that to statistical significance, as pointed out by KenPom, who some treat like a messiah.

If you want to poop on Jim, poop on the pro-style offense with non-pro players. The D is fine.

 

[br801]

Kids sick plays his heart out grabs the bound, ices the game and gets screamed at by his coach. Regardless of what JB wanted did he have to ruin it for him? Couldn't he have "corrected" him later?

You think that "ruined it" for Howard? JFC

 

[AZOrange]

I’ve had my fair share of Boeheim complaints this year, but I thought he coached circles around Hurley today.

Yup. He got nothing out of 6 guys basically.

 

[nolacuse44]

You don't have any way of knowing the zone kept us in the game. The only time they kept it close in the first half then got the lead in the second half was off banging open threes after we inevitably collapsed on a guy who clearly didn't want to shoot a mid-range jump shot or a midget guard started driving with no intentions of trying to attack our 7'2 Center.

I think our zone could be filthy if the guards paid no mind to a guard getting past them or a 3/4/5 catching a pass at the high post. Obviously deny, but if they get the ball there, force them to make a quick decision. You can't just hang out there offensively and players aren't used to A) Having the ball there and B) Shooting from there. Also C) It's tough to grab momentum off a couple 2 point jump shots.

With our length, if we geared the zone to stop modern day AAU emphasis (Dunks/3 pointers) and encouraged awkward 2 point jumpers, we could have a top ranked defense every year, in every category. This is one of our best defensive teams yet we still allow a ton of open threes and players to duck behind the Center.

Pace of play also greatly factors into our defensive efficiency ratings. PPG are low, limited possessions and teams get antsy. Remember us vs Butler in 2010? We're like 10x worse than that. Every time down the court you can go to the bathroom, microwave some food and let the dog out before we take a shot.

I have copied your post and will get it to JB asap. I’m certain he will be grateful, as we all are.

 

[malpearl31]

ASU scores like 85 ppg or something. How many did they score tonight?

The zone held ASU to 0.93 points per possession tonight. Last time they were held to less was back on 2/1 against Washington... a team that plays some sort of zone, I think.

Between 2/1 and today, ASU averaged 1.12 PPP in their last 9 games... so the zone unquestionably impacted their offensive performance.

Complaining about the zone after tonight’s win is a sign that you don’t understand basketball very well.

 

[orangeinnyc]

You don't have any way of knowing the zone kept us in the game. The only time they kept it close in the first half then got the lead in the second half was off banging open threes after we inevitably collapsed on a guy who clearly didn't want to shoot a mid-range jump shot or a midget guard started driving with no intentions of trying to attack our 7'2 Center.

I think our zone could be filthy if the guards paid no mind to a guard getting past them or a 3/4/5 catching a pass at the high post. Obviously deny, but if they get the ball there, force them to make a quick decision. You can't just hang out there offensively and players aren't used to A) Having the ball there and B) Shooting from there. Also C) It's tough to grab momentum off a couple 2 point jump shots.

With our length, if we geared the zone to stop modern day AAU emphasis (Dunks/3 pointers) and encouraged awkward 2 point jumpers, we could have a top ranked defense every year, in every category. This is one of our best defensive teams yet we still allow a ton of open threes and players to duck behind the Center.

Pace of play also greatly factors into our defensive efficiency ratings. PPG are low, limited possessions and teams get antsy. Remember us vs Butler in 2010? We're like 10x worse than that. Every time down the court you can go to the bathroom, microwave some food and let the dog out before we take a shot.

I think some of your points are accurate, we gave up too many open threes and too many back door cuts but most of those occurred in the first half, we adjusted and i cant recall many open 3s and hardly any wide open dunks in the second half, xavier who is a number 1 seed and plays man, gave up almost double that amount of points to this team.

Our strategy of running a zone is especially perfect for this team since it slows the game down and significantly lowers the overall number of possessions. for a team that struggles to score this is very beneficial to us and really makes the other team work for shots, i don't see how you could argue that the zone didn't work tonight considering we held them below their averages in almost every important statistical category and where they won't over 4 minutes without even scoring. We completely shut them down the last 7 mins of the game and that wa s huge reason in why we won.

Also just to touch on the Duke part, Coach k gave an interview the other day about how he has taken much of what Jb taught him on the olympic team and used it to implement the zone for his team so idk why your comparing cuse to duke when JB is the reason duke is running a zone

 

[br801]

You don't have any way of knowing the zone kept us in the game. The only time they kept it close in the first half then got the lead in the second half was off banging open threes after we inevitably collapsed on a guy who clearly didn't want to shoot a mid-range jump shot or a midget guard started driving with no intentions of trying to attack our 7'2 Center.

I think our zone could be filthy if the guards paid no mind to a guard getting past them or a 3/4/5 catching a pass at the high post. Obviously deny, but if they get the ball there, force them to make a quick decision. You can't just hang out there offensively and players aren't used to A) Having the ball there and B) Shooting from there. Also C) It's tough to grab momentum off a couple 2 point jump shots.

With our length, if we geared the zone to stop modern day AAU emphasis (Dunks/3 pointers) and encouraged awkward 2 point jumpers, we could have a top ranked defense every year, in every category. This is one of our best defensive teams yet we still allow a ton of open threes and players to duck behind the Center.

Pace of play also greatly factors into our defensive efficiency ratings. PPG are low, limited possessions and teams get antsy. Remember us vs Butler in 2010? We're like 10x worse than that. Every time down the court you can go to the bathroom, microwave some food and let the dog out before we take a shot.

This year's defense is elite in terms of 2-pt fg% defense and blocked shot %, and very solid in 3-pt fg% defense. It's why this team is still playing at point. Sorry this brand of basketball isn't as aesthetically pleasing as you'd like.

 

[Briancuse]

Sometimes I think that in another time and circumstance that Jim Boeheim would have been an incredible mime.

Post of the year nominee.

 

[Shark58]

Something that happened toward the end of rhe game, battle hit what i thought was a Huge 2. We finally went back ahead. I coukd have sworn it was a 2 and the score said 54-52. Game then went to break and score was 55-52 but the announcers didnt say anything. Am i off on this and was mistaken or is this how the broadcast went?

they did mention it was changed to a 3 but never showed a replay that I remember, and it looked like a 2 to me too

 

[DomeStranger]

Something that happened toward the end of rhe game, battle hit what i thought was a Huge 2. We finally went back ahead. I coukd have sworn it was a 2 and the score said 54-52. Game then went to break and score was 55-52 but the announcers didnt say anything. Am i off on this and was mistaken or is this how the broadcast went?

It was a definitely a 3 pointer. I was wondering why we were only up 2 and was glad to see it fixed after break.

 

[Waltdods]

The zone held ASU to 0.93 points per possession tonight. Last time they were held to less was back on 2/1 against Washington... a team that plays some sort of zone, I think.

Between 2/1 and today, ASU averaged 1.12 PPP in their last 9 games... so the zone unquestionably impacted their offensive performance.

Complaining about the zone after tonight’s win is a sign that you don’t understand basketball very well.

This was about as conclusive a refutation as could be imagined. Great post, and kudos for digging up the data.

 

[longislandcuse]

I think some of your points are accurate, we gave up too many open threes and too many back door cuts but most of those occurred in the first half, we adjusted and i cant recall many open 3s and hardly any wide open dunks in the second half, xavier who is a number 1 seed and plays man, gave up almost double that amount of points to this team.

Our strategy of running a zone is especially perfect for this team since it slows the game down and significantly lowers the overall number of possessions. for a team that struggles to score this is very beneficial to us and really makes the other team work for shots, i don't see how you could argue that the zone didn't work tonight considering we held them below their averages in almost every important statistical category and where they won't over 4 minutes without even scoring. We completely shut them down the last 7 mins of the game and that wa s huge reason in why we won.

Also just to touch on the Duke part, Coach k gave an interview the other day about how he has taken much of what Jb taught him on the olympic team and used it to implement the zone for his team so idk why your comparing cuse to duke when JB is the reason duke is running a zone

I think many of you think I'm anti-zone. I'm not. I actually really like the zone. I even like recruiting to it. I'm a fan of big guards and long forwards with shot blocking centers.

I think we can adapt a bit. K plays our zone but does some of the things I wish we would and they've been lights out since switching to zone. I don't buy better players arguments because this team is tailor made for zone. Offensively, were a train wreck, but defensively, we're a zone coaches wet dream.

ASU is not good. They've been terrible since starting conference play and they play in an awful conference that currently has 1 team in the tournament as of the first real day of the tourney. We should've beat them down, as bad as we are.

True or False: If we just let them take semi-congested mid-range twos and/or challenged Chukwu one on one while Frank and Tyus stayed at the perimeter and made sure they didn't get open looks from 3/Oshae and Marek hedge but stay near the corners, they wouldn't have been able to keep it close? I think that's true, and even though we won, is why I find our defense frustrating. Apply that same principle to BC and we don't lose to them.

 

[TODDNTEXAS]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Only in Syracuse can you have a thread 7 pages long complaining about something Boeheim did AFTER he coached a team to an NCAA tournament win in a year the team seriously over achieved! THAT YA’LL should put you “at a loss”! :bat:

 

[PauliePeppas]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Only in Syracuse can you have a thread 7 pages long complaining about something Boeheim did AFTER he coached a team to an NCAA tournament win in a year the team seriously over achieved! THAT YA’LL should put you “at a loss”! :bat:

Orignal post was about that one goof
Thats all...it has evolved into a zone debate for 6 pages

 

[orangeinnyc]

I think many of you think I'm anti-zone. I'm not. I actually really like the zone. I even like recruiting to it. I'm a fan of big guards and long forwards with shot blocking centers.

I think we can adapt a bit. K plays our zone but does some of the things I wish we would and they've been lights out since switching to zone. I don't buy better players arguments because this team is tailor made for zone. Offensively, were a train wreck, but defensively, we're a zone coaches wet dream.

ASU is not good. They've been terrible since starting conference play and they play in an awful conference that currently has 1 team in the tournament as of the first real day of the tourney. We should've beat them down, as bad as we are.

True or False: If we just let them take semi-congested mid-range twos and/or challenged Chukwu one on one while Frank and Tyus stayed at the perimeter and made sure they didn't get open looks from 3, they wouldn't have been able to keep it close? I think that's true, and even though we won, is why I find our defense frustrating. Apply that same principle to BC and we don't lose to them.

I agree that we should force them into mid range jumpers but just because want want them to do it doesn't mean they will, towards the end of the game when mitchell or the other big white center was in there we were sagging off him but he wouldn't take that shot, he pass it out to one of the quicker guards and there would now be a ton of space in there because we sagged off him, but for u to question the zone and say we played it very poorly and is almost the reason we lost is way out of left field, I'm not alone in seeing that judging by the responses from pretty much every person in here. Your stance on this isn't the minority, its an outlier. Now i will say we do need to do a much better job of identify a hot shooter and making sure we don't lose him, thats been an issue all year

 

[OrangeDW]

Something that happened toward the end of rhe game, battle hit what i thought was a Huge 2. We finally went back ahead. I coukd have sworn it was a 2 and the score said 54-52. Game then went to break and score was 55-52 but the announcers didnt say anything. Am i off on this and was mistaken or is this how the broadcast went?

I thought it was a 3 watching it live. Saw they put it up as a 2, and was hoping it was a mistake. Then it changed to 55-52, but yeah I heard nothing from the announcers. Of course, I was yelling at the TV a lot at that point and not listening to them anyway. My throat is so sore already.