Mick Cronin says...

[kingottoiii]

Wouldn't they want Clemson on the other side? So their path to the CG is an 'easy' one?

One of the complaints last time was playing teams the fans care about and that fill the stadium. I am sure FSU wants to play Pitt, SU, BC as little as possible. And they want to play GA Tech more often than once every 6 seasons like it is set up today. They also worry about SOS as that could determine which team gets left out of the Final Four. Having FSU play Miami, Clemson, GA Tech every year helps. So if I am FSU I want BC and SU out of my division and GA Tech in.

 

[Townie72]

I believe that the Big 10 can sell Rutgers way better than the inept big east could. To me it's like Barney Fife having the same stock as Warren Buffet, who do you listen too?

You are overstating both the nature and the the effect of conference marketing efforts. These efforts --- to the extent that they exist at all --- have always been the purview of the schools themselves.

Two things build attendance and interest. The first is tradition and a loyal fan base like what South Carolina has. The second is "winning" and winning against teams that the populace considers "big time". Neither Barney Fife or Warren Buffett are involved? That's a "false choice".

You can promote and advertise like crazy. It has little impact on support. Even when they are done, have you noticed how ineffective marketing efforts for colleges and even pro teams are?

Georgetown tries very hard through all sorts of advertising to sell basketball tickets without much success and they have a good product.

For whatever reason, there are tens of thousands of empty seats in football and basketball all across the country in spite of marketing efforts. And Conference marketing efforts are even less impactful.

The B1G acquiring Rutgers and Maryland is only about cable subscribers. The B1G would love to see both teams more popular locally and nationally but that's a huge task that only big time winning can accomplish.

Interesting NJ residents in games against Illinois and Purdue and Northwestern after games with Eastern foes have had little impact is a daunting task. Rutgers joined the Big East in 1991. For the next 14 years --- against teams like Miami and VT and SU and WVU --- they averaged 20,000 attendance.

 

[Townie72]

Is Temple a better choice vs Louisville?

Neither fits academically.

Temple fits geographically.

Neither adds $ (FSU's main concern) to the ESPN deal.

However if an ACCN is created Temple has a lot more value than UL.

Neither make the ACC a better FB conference.

Both make the ACC better in BBall, more so UL.

UL makes the ACC stronger in Olympic sports.

Athletically UL is a better choice but in the sport that matters they are only mediocre. They do not add TV $. And have weak academics. If FSU's main concern is keeping up with the SEC schools than $ is most important to them. So wouldn't Temple be the better choice vs UL?

Did you see any pictures of the stands during the recent SU @ Temple game?

 

[SmilinBob]

The thing that really annoys the FSU/Clemson folks is that playing the BC's, Pitt's and Syracuse's of the world gives you a tough game and you suck if you lose to them and get no credit when you beat them. Bama beats a totally over ranked Miss St and it's like wow, they just blew out the #16 team.

 

[SmilinBob]

You are overstating both the nature and the the effect of conference marketing efforts. These efforts --- to the extent that they exist at all --- have always been the purview of the schools themselves.

Two things build attendance and interest. The first is tradition and a loyal fan base like what South Carolina has. The second is "winning" and winning against teams that the populace considers "big time". Neither Barney Fife or Warren Buffett are involved? That's a "false choice".

You can promote and advertise like crazy. It has little impact on support. Even when they are done, have you noticed how ineffective marketing efforts for colleges and even pro teams are?

Georgetown tries very hard through all sorts of advertising to sell basketball tickets without much success and they have a good product.

For whatever reason, there are tens of thousands of empty seats in football and basketball all across the country in spite of marketing efforts. And Conference marketing efforts are even less impactful.

The B1G acquiring Rutgers and Maryland is only about cable subscribers. The B1G would love to see both teams more popular locally and nationally but that's a huge task that only big time winning can accomplish.

Interesting NJ residents in games against Illinois and Purdue and Northwestern after games with Eastern foes have had little impact is a daunting task. Rutgers joined the Big East in 1991. For the next 14 years --- against teams like Miami and VT and SU and WVU --- they averaged 20,000 attendance.

I think you're being slightly bias because of your feelings towards Maryland and Rutgers. Impact no, but they can become one of the members of Big 10 society and survive pretty well under that umbrella. I'm not by any means saying they are some juggernaut but state schools that could be an Iowa or Michigan St given the right circumstances.

 

[KaiserUEO]

The B1G may be smarter than I me. You may be too.

But unless you get it through your skull that this was driven primarily by the number of cable subscribers, the chance that you'll actually understand any of this are very slim. If there were no BTN, Rutgers would have never, ever been chosen irregardless of AAU membership or the great unwashed masses that populate Northern NJ.

The last I checked Rutgers was in the same "location, location, location" in the Big East that they will be in when they are in the B1G. And in this "location, location, location" in the Big East they added almost nothing to the Conference. Even in this "location, location, location" they were losing $25M a year that they had to dip into student fees and the general fund to get.

NJ's primary export has always been college students. ACC schools are filled with them all paying Out-of-State tuition that enables the State to offer discounted tuition to their own residents. NJ high school students and their parents want to go to UVA and Duke and UNC and just about anywhere but Rutgers.

As far as recruits go, the Big Ten and ACC and other Big East schools have always recruited NJ very well and they will continue to do so.

Being in the B1G hasn't locked up NJ for Rutgers or anyone.

And let's look at the future. One thing I am absolutely sure of is that the people in NJ will root only for a winner ... a big winner. And if Rutgers can't be a big winner in the B1G, the initial interest driven by this new phenomenon will dry up faster than a mud puddle in the Mojave desert.

PS - Try to minimize the personal "digs" in your post. All they do is degrade the conversation. I'll guarantee you can't bully me with insults.

the b1g is not only smarter than me, but it also has more muscle and when used appropriately, it gets what it wants.

the bigeast never knew how, or didnt have the muscle to maximize rutgers and nj. but they did add location, location, location. they helped get the BE on sny, they will help get the b1g on sny or YES.

and i never 1x said rutgers was a useful athletic dept. ive stated all along this is a $$ play, a tv eyeball play. the conf game has changed, it may be clear to all that the b1g went for quantity this time over quality, but my view has been that its been quantity all along. this is chess, the b1g has been making moves and setting everybody up for a few years now.

im going to be able to watch the bill obrien or urban meyer shows, much more easily than i will the doug marrone show.

 

[Chip]

Did you see any pictures of the stands during the recent SU @ Temple game?

Yeah, at some point the rubber has to meet the road on geography. Philly has a lot of TV sets. They also have a closed off upper deck, a 99% empty club level, and a 40% empty (on a good day) lower deck of their stadium. If that means extra $ from cable subscriptions because you have a local team, then the entire TV industry pricing methodology is completely out of control.

 

[Townie72]

I think you're being slightly bias because of your feelings towards Maryland and Rutgers. Impact no, but they can become one of the members of Big 10 society and survive pretty well under that umbrella. I'm not by any means saying they are some juggernaut but state schools that could be an Iowa or Michigan St given the right circumstances.

Everybody has biases ... but I'm trying to be logical here.

Step back and look at what really happened.

Maryland will now be playing Ill, Mich, Mich St. etc., etc instead of UVA, UNC, FSU etc. I think at that's a step backward, especially in basketball. They will have more money, but that's money they needed to break even ... not new money to invest. Recruits that used to come to MD because they were in the ACC will no longer be interested and that will hurt badly in basketball and lacrosse. I believe that Maryland got itself in a financial hole and sold its tradition for short term money. I don't see them being competitive without a huge upgrade in football talent. And a few ass beatings (e.g. 66 - 3) by Ohio State and Michigan are really going to throw a wet blanket over fan interest. And once PSU regains its footing they'll resume administering those beating annually. (The last MD QB to beat Penn State was Dick Shiner in 1962 or 3. That's 50 years ago.)

Rutgers too needs Big Ten money to balance their books. They were overspending by $26M after cutting 5 sports. They will trade games with Big East schools for Big Ten schools. But unless they win often fan interest will dry up. And a few Ohio State routs will go a long way to killing their nascent fan base. People in NJ respond well to big winners and poorly to mediocrity. They average 20K gosting Miami and VT and Syracuse when we were good.

There's must be something in the water in New Brunswick that engenders losing. Rutgers basketball has been in the world's best basketball conference for 20 years in a sport where all you need is three or four superior players. And they stink now and have always stunk. They keep losing to schools like Rider and NJIT and St Peters. That level of incompetence is actually hard to achieve.

 

[All4SU]

the bigeast never knew how, or didnt have the muscle to maximize rutgers and nj. but they did add location, location, location. they helped get the BE on sny, they will help get the b1g on sny or YES.

Not approving PSU way back when was a mistake, but the old BE could have overcome that. In the 90s, when the BE had VT, and Miami and Syracuse, and WVU, and BC, EVERY team in the BE should have been out trying to gain some national recognition. The teams in the Big East should have been out playing the best teams they could. It was stupid for teams like VT and Buttgers and others to go into a shell and schedule crap games. The BE carried Buttgers and Temple for years. It isn't enough to beat Bumfolk State at home. The BE teams had to go out and play the Michigans, Tennessees, Floridas, Auburns and such like Syracuse did. Be more of a recognized name beyond the confines of your own little corner of the country. I'm sorry, but playing PSU didn't expand the BE recognition factor. While Miami was winning national championships, the others in the BE should have been playing top teams too. Yes, they would have lost some, but it also would have brought more good teams into their regions, and grabbed more attention of the locals in their markets. They took the path of least resistance and scheduled for easy wins. Short-sighted, and it led to an erosion of the BE brands, because the BE couldn't develop a BE identity.

 

[SmilinBob]

Everybody has biases ... but I'm trying to be logical here.

Step back and look at what really happened.

Maryland will now be playing Ill, Mich, Mich St. etc., etc instead of UVA, UNC, FSU etc. I think at that's a step backward, especially in basketball. They will have more money, but that's money they needed to break even ... not new money to invest. Recruits that used to come to MD because they were in the ACC will no longer be interested and that will hurt badly in basketball and lacrosse. I believe that Maryland got itself in a financial hole and sold its tradition for short term money. I don't see them being competitive without a huge upgrade in football talent. And a few ass beatings (e.g. 66 - 3) by Ohio State and Michigan are really going to throw a wet blanket over fan interest. And once PSU regains its footing they'll resume administering those beating annually. (The last MD QB to beat Penn State was Dick Shiner in 1962 or 3. That's 50 years ago.)

Rutgers too needs Big Ten money to balance their books. They were overspending by $26M after cutting 5 sports. They will trade games with Big East schools for Big Ten schools. But unless they win often fan interest will dry up. And a few Ohio State routs will go a long way to killing their nascent fan base. People in NJ respond well to big winners and poorly to mediocrity. They average 20K gosting Miami and VT and Syracuse when we were good.

There's must be something in the water in New Brunswick that engenders losing. Rutgers basketball has been in the world's best basketball conference for 20 years in a sport where all you need is three or four superior players. And they stink now and have always stunk. They keep losing to schools like Rider and NJIT and St Peters. That level of incompetence is actually hard to achieve.

I don't deny they are front runners by any means fan wise but this move is such a win win for them it isn't even close to being funny. If it becomes a blind nut finding a nut and RU does well every so often in football then it is what it is but the Big 10 lining the RU pockets is in my book an excellent move by them (RU) and a nice move by the Big 10 to get subscribers, 2 rivals for PSU thus keeping them home (and kicking ass with 2 new wins) and nice trips for Big 10 fans. Good point regarding what they did in hoops but yet it is a moot point because of all the benefits the Big 10 will offer the whole institutions of RU and Maryland.

 

[Bayside44]

Financially of course this is a win for Maryland and Rutgers. But I keep coming back to this, the ability to compete, esp for Maryland, will be compromised. Maryland actually has a traditionally strong hoops and lax program, and I truly think they will have a very tough time selling the B1G to PGC and Baltimore kids and their families / hangers on.

Maryland, like most others, has a false sense of self in football. They dumped money into a needless stadium expansion and have driven up their debts to bailout proportions. Seeing what tOSU now is doing under Meyer, Penn State, Michigan, etc are gonna run over the Terps like, well, a steamroller over a turtle.

 

[SmilinBob]

Financially of course this is a win for Maryland and Rutgers. But I keep coming back to this, the ability to compete, esp for Maryland, will be compromised. Maryland actually has a traditionally strong hoops and lax program, and I truly think they will have a very tough time selling the B1G to PGC and Baltimore kids and their families / hangers on.

Maryland, like most others, has a false sense of self in football. They dumped money into a needless stadium expansion and have driven up their debts to bailout proportions. Seeing what tOSU now is doing under Meyer, Penn State, Michigan, etc are gonna run over the Terps like, well, a steamroller over a turtle.

But Indiana stays, Purdue stays, Minny stays...they have lived off of OSU and Michigans football teat for a long long time.

 

[Bayside44]

But Indiana stays, Purdue stays, Minny stays...they have lived off of OSU and Michigans football teat for a long long time.

Minny has Wisconsin and Iowa to keep them occupied, plus, where else are they going to play? Purdue and Indiana have each other, etc...

 

[SmilinBob]

Minny has Wisconsin and Iowa to keep them occupied, plus, where else are they going to play? Purdue and Indiana have each other, etc...

Maryland has Rutgers and PSU to a point. Also Maryland may have a false worth and they do not have Minnesota's history

 

[Bayside44]

Maryland has Rutgers and PSU to a point. Also Maryland may have a false worth and they do not have Minnesota's history

Exactly, they have Rutgers. Good luck to them selling that.

 

[SmilinBob]

Exactly, they have Rutgers. Good luck to them selling that.

They, well Paterno, asked for those two schools. The Big 10 just gave them exactly what they asked for, why would they get what they want and all of a sudden not want it anymore? Plus, kicking Maryland and Rutgers butt keeps the faithful happy...it's a win win for PSU.

Look at it this way bayside, if this keeps the top part of the Big 10 happy, adds wins and money and they continue to keep their flagship OSU and Michigan on top it works out perfectly for the Big 10. Heck, the Big 10 just had UM and OSU for years and the conference did well cash wise.

 

[kyleslamb]

But why foreclose the last spot for Notre Dame? That doesn't make any sense. What do you get by adding Cincinnati ?

Waiting on Notre Dame is the equivalent of being on the Titanic while waiting for a rescue boat, even as the Hull is half-submerged underwater. It's all about survival at this point. You ask Notre Dame once to join and if they say no, make other plans. Waiting on them is a surefire disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Scooch]

Who cares what Mick Cronin says.

What is Mick Foley saying?!