NYT does Calipari

[cusetown1]

I have zero need to defend Cal by any means. But that isn't an indicator that is relevant to college ball. There are plenty of successful college coaches [Nick Saban or Steve Spurrier, anyone?] who sucked in the NFL but are great college coaches.

Not being a great NBA coach has zero to do with his success at the collegiate level. Which has admittedly been impressive. I tend to agree with you that he has a track record as a cheater. But I do also acknowledge that he's managed to skate and not be directly implicated, so not sure about the "proven" part.

He coaches in a garbage league

 

[RF2044]

He coaches in a garbage league

No argument there. And the same was true at Memphis / CUSA. No question, his record has been inflated by playing in weak leagues.

But that is different from his teams not being good, or him not being a good coach. Both of those conditions are true, which is why his teams excel most years. And part of that is enabled by playing in weak leagues. There is no doubt in my mind that if this current UK team played in the ACC or the Big 10, that they would have lost a game or two.

But that would still make them top 5. : /

 

[cusetown1]

No argument there. And the same was true at Memphis / CUSA. No question, his record has been inflated by playing in weak leagues.

But that is different from his teams not being good, or him not being a good coach. Both of those conditions are true, which is why his teams excel most years. And part of that is enabled by playing in weak leagues. There is no doubt in my mind that if this current UK team played in the ACC or the Big 10, that they would have lost a game or two.

But that would still make them top 5. : /

At least a game or 2, I mean they almost lost 3 conference games in the SEC.

 

[PoppyHart]

True. But per my response to two3zone above, I think that is turning into a BS straw man to defend Cal against the prospect of past improprieties.

There are definitely dumb posts / posters that claim that he isn't a good coach, that he's just a recruiter, etc. C'mon. The man's track record speaks for itself.

But that holds true both on AND off the court.

A recurring theme in your posts tonight is your indignation that he bailed on his prior employers, whether out of a sense of guilt or just being better at reading the tea leaves. I'm not sure why staying and accepting your punishment like we did in '93 and '15 is more honorable. If Cal had stayed at UMass and ran into problems again 20 years later would the perception be different?

 

[Orangezoo]

Calipari knows the game and how to coach. He is a smart guy. One of the best mtm defensive coaches out there. That is separate from the foul play elements off the court.

And as dirty as he is, the rules he breaks are not really good rules to begin with. Yet due to the ncaa relying on self reporting it makes it easy to loophole the hell out of the system with the right resources and legal staff and know how. Calipari epitomizes those very skills and the UK resource pool equates to a perfect marriage in ncaa non compliance heaven. So if we are going to penalize for petty issues that are self remedied already by the universities and spend a decade investigating them, then an organization like UK , coached by someone who worked in previously non compliant universities, there should be am equally aggressive investigation or audit. It makes no sense to have such imbalanced enforcement unless there are financial gains to be had by the ncaa in how they enforce.

 

[cusetown1]

I was told that losing two final fours wasn't a punishment for Cal.

It wasnt a punishment , championships are what matter. You will never see them take a championship away. How many people actually remember that Butler went to the title game twice in a row? Not many. Had they one the title one of those years many more would know.

 

[PoppyHart]

I have zero need to defend Cal by any means. But that isn't an indicator that is relevant to college ball. There are plenty of successful college coaches [Nick Saban or Steve Spurrier, anyone?] who sucked in the NFL but are great college coaches.

Not being a great NBA coach has zero to do with his success at the collegiate level. Which has admittedly been impressive. I tend to agree with you that he has a track record as a cheater. But I do also acknowledge that he's managed to skate and not be directly implicated, so not sure about the "proven" part.

Can I give you 9/10ths of a like?

 

[RF2044]

A recurring theme in your posts tonight is your indignation that he bailed on his prior employers, whether out of a sense of guilt or just being better at reading the tea leaves. I'm not sure why staying and accepting your punishment like we did in '93 and '15 is more honorable. If Cal had stayed at UMass and ran into problems again 20 years later would the perception be different?

Indignation? Honor has ZERO to do with it--I have no idea how you interpreted that from my posts. More like me correctly interpreting it for what it was: Cal bailing at the 11th hour to avoid the consequences of taking the fall for malfeasance under his watch. Or as I've repeatedly described it--him bailing to stay one step ahead of the NCAA lynch mob. A recurring theme from other posts is the rationalization that he bailed for financial gain or other reasons beyond him trying to avoid the hammer being dropped or his teflon reputation from being dragged through the mud. Which is precisely why after all of the smoke, we still have posters vehemently taking the tact that "he's never been caught..."

And for the record, that has zero to do with UK being a better job > than Memphis. Given. But I think there are lots of false attributions about when and why he left both umass / memphis because it fits a convenient narrative about Cal being free from guilt.

 

[Paul OLeary]

He coaches in a garbage league

Like this guy?

 

[cusetown1]

Like this guy?

View attachment 39289

Hey paul .

 

[HOFCeluck]

It wasnt a punishment , championships are what matter. You will never see them take a championship away. How many people actually remember that Butler went to the title game twice in a row? Not many. Had they one the title one of those years many more would know.

Silly me getting all geeked out when we beat Marquette in 2013.

 

[cusetown1]

Silly me getting all geeked out when we beat Marquette in 2013.

Yeah it was fun while it lasted, but thats the breaks. college basketball is one of the only sports that people hang banners for just getting to a semi final.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yeah it was fun while it lasted . But thats the breaks, college basketball is the only sport that people get excited about going to a national semifinal.

...so your saying that final fours do matter?

 

[Orangezoo]

A recurring theme in your posts tonight is your indignation that he bailed on his prior employers, whether out of a sense of guilt or just being better at reading the tea leaves. I'm not sure why staying and accepting your punishment like we did in '93 and '15 is more honorable. If Cal had stayed at UMass and ran into problems again 20 years later would the perception be different?

I think if Umass was a one time thing and he left based upon his coaching credentials and that was it then this is lost in history. The second time around this happened is a damning piece and the quick move to a UK team who went after Donovan first raises the appropriate questions. That said and realizing we have the advantage of hindsight i absolutely say it changes things. Whether it sticks to him or not he takes on accountability of the success of the program good or bad. 20 yrs later it happens again and he gets flak yes but he has established his commitment and credability.

Leaving is never an immediate proof of guilt. Happening two times is a different story while distancing one self from being implicated in any way is another. Add to that a statement from the University to help with that is even more concerning. I don't see how this happening twice to calipari in very similar fashions followed by the smoke at UK doesnt speak much differently than staying on board per the example.

 

[PoppyHart]

Silly me getting all geeked out when we beat Marquette in 2013.

Crazy I know, but you think the NCAA would ever rescind a national championship like, say, in football, which, you know, kinda pays the bills? Let's meet in South Central LA and discuss.

 

[cusetown1]

...so your saying that final fours do matter?

In college basketball they are very important I guess. But I don't think the Oregon Ducks are hanging any banners in football other than their conference championship . But hey who knows, maybe football will make a big deal about final 4 appearances someday.

 

[PoppyHart]

I think if Umass was a one time thing and he left based upon his coaching credentials and that was it then this is lost in history. The second time around this happened is a damning piece and the quick move to a UK team who went after Donovan first raises the appropriate questions. That said and realizing we have the advantage of hindsight i absolutely say it changes things. Whether it sticks to him or not he takes on accountability of the success of the program good or bad. 20 yrs later it happens again and he gets flak yes but he has established his commitment and credability.

Leaving is never an immediate proof of guilt. Happening two times is a different story while distancing one self from being implicated in any way is another. Add to that a statement from the University to help with that is even more concerning. I don't see how this happening twice to calipari in very similar fashions followed by the smoke at UK doesnt speak much differently than staying on board per the example.

Donovan did win in 06 and 07.

 

[two3zone]

It wasnt a punishment , championships are what matter. You will never see them take a championship away. How many people actually remember that Butler went to the title game twice in a row? Not many. Had they one the title one of those years many more would know.

That's funny, you're the only one on the opposing side of this argument that would rather have a final four taken away than schollies taken away.

 

[Orangezoo]

Donovan did win in 06 and 07.

My point was if the argument was how much better of a job it was as has been brought up.. he took it as being the 2nd option and it was turned down by donovan. Add to that its a job the best they could do before that was gillespie.

 

[PoppyHart]

My point was if the argument was how much better of a job it was as has been brought up.. he took it as being the 2nd option and it was turned down by donovan. Add to that its a job the best they could do before that was gillespie.

Yeah, Gillespie was definitely a flavor of the month hire. Put A&M on the BB map, but was high risk. I have no idea who else was in consideration at that time.

 

[weedsportwarriors]

I may bleed Orange but I'm not blinded by it.

Sorry, but you would never know that you bleed orange.

 

[TheCusian]

They are dumb but it's part of their culture. They are the most penalized program in history. Once a decade since the 50's. Six times I think. So they are due.

The only questions left is has the NCAA become so dysfunctional that they can't take down the monster that is UK

 

[tee1222]

You still mad Richardson got POY?

Wrong board.

This thread is garbage and my is starting to make me .

 

[cusetown1]

View attachment 39328

This thread is garbage and my is starting to make me .

 

[RandygoCuse]

Wouldn't work that way if it ever happened.

You don't think they could have 60 something for football and 100 something for basketball? There may be schools from conferences like the Big East that would want to be in different division for basketball and football.