Thank you Tyler Lydon for an awesome 2 years

[Ish88888]

No defense...lol. If Tyler doesn't make it, it will probably be because his defense isn't high level enough.

No, you didn't get my post. Defense isn't a priority in the league, just not sure where he fits in offensively.

 

[Ish88888]

Honestly, his game probably translates better to the NBA than college.

Hope you are right, but how? He doesn't have a consistent shot and at 6'9" these days he is viewed as a 3 or a stretch 4. Need a shot or the skill to take guys off the dribble on the wing. Just dont see it yet.

 

[OrangeDW]

No, you didn't get my post. Defense isn't a priority in the league, just not sure where he fits in offensively.

I got it and I disagree on both points.

I think he fits in offensively because he can be a good catch and shoot guy as a PF.

I don't know if he can defend at that level. I'm not saying he can't, I'm saying I don't know. It's hard to tell, because we've never seen him play man to man. He might lack some strength and quickness right now. He might get stronger and he might have the awareness to compensate for the quickness a bit. Remains to be seen.

 

[Ish88888]

This post explains a lot. The NBA is unwatchable? I take it you're an ISO ball lover back to the days of Kobe and Jordan.

Nope , i am 45. I grew up a sixers fan, moses and doc and crew, with greats like bird and magic in the league in the 80's. THAT was nba hoops. The 90's brought us games in the 80's with tje heat and knicks as so much physically was allowed, these days its just the opposite, a result of the BS AAU preparedness these kids go through and it results in 3 point shots OR dunks. No mid range game. And thats the nba today. All the kids love steph taking 28 ft 3's , hell all players 6'9"-7'4" have an outside game. THAT'S my concern for TL.

 

[OrangeDW]

Hope you are right, but how? He doesn't have a consistent shot and at 6'9" these days he is viewed as a 3 or a stretch 4. Need a shot or the skill to take guys off the dribble on the wing. Just dont see it yet.

How doesn't he have a consistent shot? He's shot over 40 % from 3 in both college seasons. His range goes well beyond the college line as he often hits deep threes. And he's shooting 90% from the line, which is always a great indicator of what kind of stroke someone has.

 

[longislandcuse]

I got it and I disagree on both points.

I think he fits in offensively because he can be a good catch and shoot guy as a PF.

I don't know if he can defend at that level. I'm not saying he can't, I'm saying I don't know. It's hard to tell, because we've never seen him play man to man. He might lack some strength and quickness right now. He might get stronger and he might have the awareness to compensate for the quickness a bit. Remains to be seen.

The defense thing is a mystery but I've got to assume that people are dropping the whole "Syracuse players can't defend" nonsense. (You weren't saying that, just figured I'd take his time to point it out)

Lately, the players we've sent to the league have been above average defenders and struggling to fit in offensively.

 

[Ish88888]

How doesn't he have a consistent shot? He's shot over 40 % from 3 in both college seasons. His range goes well beyond the college line as he often hits deep threes. And he's shooting 90% from the line, which is always a great indicator of what kind of stroke someone has.

Good point, i get it. Just don't see his quickness and game on the inside. Hope i am wrong. Want him to come back and further develop his game

 

[OrangeDW]

The defense thing is a mystery but I've got to assume that people are dropping the whole "Syracuse players can't defend" nonsense. (You weren't saying that, just figured I'd take his time to point it out)

Lately, the players we've sent to the league have been above average defenders and struggling to fit in offensively.

Agreed. Guys like Grant and MCW and Waiters all have either big time athleticism and length or strength though. Wes Johnson too.

I'm not sure Lydon has the same measurables. I think if he's able to get stronger, that will help. I do think he's a smart player with good court awareness so that should help.

 

[Ish88888]

Remember, Lydon knows going in to every game that he's not coming out.

I expect that would have some effect on his approach to the game.

I think the one fair criticism is that he's too comfortable pump faking and passing up open looks. He could take 2-4 more good shots per game than he does.

Other than that, he's playing iron man ball and is incredibly efficient. Not sure how much more can realistically be asked of him.

Efficient? Ok, lol, whatever.

 

[billsin01]

I'm in finance/accounting... it still looks like a great decision.

Well, it depends on what you're discussing, IMO. I still say the idea of going to a professional league is that you've put yourself in position to have a career that lasts for a minimum of 5 years and ideally 10 or so. As great as that money up front is, the question of whether it is the right decision comes down to more than simply the guarantee of money for a couple years. (I say this fully acknowledging that if a kid wants to take a quick contract and go to the NBA or even shoot for the NBA knowing that he can play overseas for years, I'm fine with it.)

But to me you want to assess the situation based on three criteria:

1. Can your draft stock improve?
For guys like Ennis, I feel the decision to leave makes a ton of sense because I'm not sure his draft grade had much potential to go up and I'm not sure developmentally that he really needed any more college ball. He had already put together a really impressive resume and gotten a nice draft grade.

2. What's your carrying tool(s) and how defined are they? AND, how common is your skill set?
I would have no problem making a case that Jeremi Grant should have returned, but I do think one could make the argument that his role was going to be based on his raw athleticism/effort. Hustle, defense, rebounding, huge dunks -- that may be what Grant was going to be with another year or not. But regardless, you could at least make that argument. My main reason for being surprised about Mali going and getting drafted so high was that his carrying tool was his offense ... but his offense wasn't real great. It was awesome at times and brutal at others.

3. What's your best path of development? AND, how uncommon is your skill set/size?
Yes, I'm well aware that you're paid handsomely to play against the best players in the world with the best coaches in the world if you're in the NBA. However, the NBA is also not going to wait on you if they can replace you easily? (i.e. For a guy like MCW, whatever his weaknesses, he's a 6'6" PG -- that's pretty rare and teams are going to give you a lot of rope to develop b/c of that fact.) If you're a kid who's most likely to make your mark offensively, my opinion is you need to be really good before you go b/c the D League and/or the end of the bench isn't a great spot for getting quality, game touches. IMO, there is something to be said for knowing that for 30+ games on a college floor you are going to be playing close to 40 mins and the offense will be, for the most part, run through you. That's pretty powerful in terms of development.

So where does that leave Lydon? I don't know. I'm cool with whatever he decides to do but I would argue that a stretch 4 needs to be a really good offensive player. I don't know about draft position but in terms of being ready for the NBA, Lydon could absolutely grow by learning what he is offensively and how he fits best. It's hard to argue against taking first-round money but I certainly think a Lydon who kills it in the offseason with workouts and developing his game and then puts up a huge junior season could be a really nice option for developing into a player that is a regular rotation guy for 8-10 years in the NBA.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Efficient? Ok, lol, whatever.

Shooting percentages mean things.

 

[Ish88888]

Shooting percentages mean things.

I agree, just don't see his translation to the next level.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Well, it depends on what you're discussing, IMO. I still say the idea of going to a professional league is that you've put yourself in position to have a career that lasts for a minimum of 5 years and ideally 10 or so. As great as that money up front is, the question of whether it is the right decision comes down to more than simply the guarantee of money for a couple years. (I say this fully acknowledging that if a kid wants to take a quick contract and go to the NBA or even shoot for the NBA knowing that he can play overseas for years, I'm fine with it.)

But to me you want to assess the situation based on three criteria:

1. Can your draft stock improve?
For guys like Ennis, I feel the decision to leave makes a ton of sense because I'm not sure his draft grade had much potential to go up and I'm not sure developmentally that he really needed any more college ball. He had already put together a really impressive resume and gotten a nice draft grade.

2. What's your carrying tool(s) and how defined are they? AND, how common is your skill set?
I would have no problem making a case that Jeremi Grant should have returned, but I do think one could make the argument that his role was going to be based on his raw athleticism/effort. Hustle, defense, rebounding, huge dunks -- that may be what Grant was going to be with another year or not. But regardless, you could at least make that argument. My main reason for being surprised about Mali going and getting drafted so high was that his carrying tool was his offense ... but his offense wasn't real great. It was awesome at times and brutal at others.

3. What's your best path of development? AND, how uncommon is your skill set/size?
Yes, I'm well aware that you're paid handsomely to play against the best players in the world with the best coaches in the world if you're in the NBA. However, the NBA is also not going to wait on you if they can replace you easily? (i.e. For a guy like MCW, whatever his weaknesses, he's a 6'6" PG -- that's pretty rare and teams are going to give you a lot of rope to develop b/c of that fact.) If you're a kid who's most likely to make your mark offensively, my opinion is you need to be really good before you go b/c the D League and/or the end of the bench isn't a great spot for getting quality, game touches. IMO, there is something to be said for knowing that for 30+ games on a college floor you are going to be playing close to 40 mins and the offense will be, for the most part, run through you. That's pretty powerful in terms of development.

So where does that leave Lydon? I don't know. I'm cool with whatever he decides to do but I would argue that a stretch 4 needs to be a really good offensive player. I don't know about draft position but in terms of being ready for the NBA, Lydon could absolutely grow by learning what he is offensively and how he fits best. It's hard to argue against taking first-round money but I certainly think a Lydon who kills it in the offseason with workouts and developing his game and then puts up a huge junior season could be a really nice option for developing into a player that is a regular rotation guy for 8-10 years in the NBA.

how about a guy that spends his career in the D League!

 

[longislandcuse]

how about a guy that spends his career in the D League!

I dont think people spend careers in the D-League. Eventually, you'll be able to read the tea leaves and head over to Europe to make some big $$$ before your career is over.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I agree, just don't see his translation to the next level.

I think you and a lot of other fans are focusing on everything he can't do instead of what GM's focus on. Everything he can do. Reboundand shoot at a high percentage. The inability to create his own shot means nothing because he will probably be standing at the three point line waiting to catch and shoot in the NBA. You laughed at me because I pointed out what his analytical statistics were(they're great), but that's sports these days. High volume scorers are a thing of the past.

 

[NineOneSeven]

If he is, indeed, a first rounder at this point, that tells me this year's draft is weak. If nobody has noticed, the NBA is now professional AAU. Its layups, dunks and 25 ft 3's. No intermediate game. The 10-15 ft jumper is obsolete. Coaches coach to take an uncontested 25 footer instead of a contested 10 footer. The NBA is unwatchable, no defense, and not sure where TL's game fits in with all this.

I think 95% of the posts you make on the bball board are head scratching.

 

[Ish88888]

I think 95% of the posts you make on the bball board are head scratching.

Thats bc 95% of your thoughts are through orange colored glasses.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lol. Someone's barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Ish88888]

I think 95% of the posts you make on the bball board are head scratching.

Please make your case for TL being a first rounder and/or him having a good year, this year.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Thats bc 95% of your thoughts are through orange colored glasses.

You've raised it to 96% with this one.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Please make your case for TL being a first rounder and/or him having a good year, this year.

A good year? Lol. Just stop man.

 

[Ish88888]

You've raised it to 96% with this one.

Others think TL isn't ready either. Not sure why my take is any different.

 

[Ish88888]

A good year? Lol. Just stop man.

Ok, 14 and 8?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Others think TL isn't ready either. Not sure why my take is any different.

I think Lydon could benefit from coming back as well. It has nothing to do with your take on that.

I'm basing it off some of your other posts on this board and your comment about the NBA above.

 

[Bayside44]

Well, it depends on what you're discussing, IMO. I still say the idea of going to a professional league is that you've put yourself in position to have a career that lasts for a minimum of 5 years and ideally 10 or so. As great as that money up front is, the question of whether it is the right decision comes down to more than simply the guarantee of money for a couple years. (I say this fully acknowledging that if a kid wants to take a quick contract and go to the NBA or even shoot for the NBA knowing that he can play overseas for years, I'm fine with it.)

But to me you want to assess the situation based on three criteria:

1. Can your draft stock improve?
For guys like Ennis, I feel the decision to leave makes a ton of sense because I'm not sure his draft grade had much potential to go up and I'm not sure developmentally that he really needed any more college ball. He had already put together a really impressive resume and gotten a nice draft grade.

2. What's your carrying tool(s) and how defined are they? AND, how common is your skill set?
I would have no problem making a case that Jeremi Grant should have returned, but I do think one could make the argument that his role was going to be based on his raw athleticism/effort. Hustle, defense, rebounding, huge dunks -- that may be what Grant was going to be with another year or not. But regardless, you could at least make that argument. My main reason for being surprised about Mali going and getting drafted so high was that his carrying tool was his offense ... but his offense wasn't real great. It was awesome at times and brutal at others.

3. What's your best path of development? AND, how uncommon is your skill set/size?
Yes, I'm well aware that you're paid handsomely to play against the best players in the world with the best coaches in the world if you're in the NBA. However, the NBA is also not going to wait on you if they can replace you easily? (i.e. For a guy like MCW, whatever his weaknesses, he's a 6'6" PG -- that's pretty rare and teams are going to give you a lot of rope to develop b/c of that fact.) If you're a kid who's most likely to make your mark offensively, my opinion is you need to be really good before you go b/c the D League and/or the end of the bench isn't a great spot for getting quality, game touches. IMO, there is something to be said for knowing that for 30+ games on a college floor you are going to be playing close to 40 mins and the offense will be, for the most part, run through you. That's pretty powerful in terms of development.

So where does that leave Lydon? I don't know. I'm cool with whatever he decides to do but I would argue that a stretch 4 needs to be a really good offensive player. I don't know about draft position but in terms of being ready for the NBA, Lydon could absolutely grow by learning what he is offensively and how he fits best. It's hard to argue against taking first-round money but I certainly think a Lydon who kills it in the offseason with workouts and developing his game and then puts up a huge junior season could be a really nice option for developing into a player that is a regular rotation guy for 8-10 years in the NBA.

You and JOC44 have really nailed this issue. If a guy isn't some sort of unicorn, better be ready to show off your skill, or the team will go get someone who can. In Mali's case the Kings liked him so much they went out and got Buddy Hield.

It's about getting that second contract. The money in Europe isn't that sweet.