Thank you Tyler Lydon for an awesome 2 years | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Thank you Tyler Lydon for an awesome 2 years

Well, it depends on what you're discussing, IMO. I still say the idea of going to a professional league is that you've put yourself in position to have a career that lasts for a minimum of 5 years and ideally 10 or so. As great as that money up front is, the question of whether it is the right decision comes down to more than simply the guarantee of money for a couple years. (I say this fully acknowledging that if a kid wants to take a quick contract and go to the NBA or even shoot for the NBA knowing that he can play overseas for years, I'm fine with it.)

But to me you want to assess the situation based on three criteria:

1. Can your draft stock improve?
For guys like Ennis, I feel the decision to leave makes a ton of sense because I'm not sure his draft grade had much potential to go up and I'm not sure developmentally that he really needed any more college ball. He had already put together a really impressive resume and gotten a nice draft grade.

2. What's your carrying tool(s) and how defined are they? AND, how common is your skill set?
I would have no problem making a case that Jeremi Grant should have returned, but I do think one could make the argument that his role was going to be based on his raw athleticism/effort. Hustle, defense, rebounding, huge dunks -- that may be what Grant was going to be with another year or not. But regardless, you could at least make that argument. My main reason for being surprised about Mali going and getting drafted so high was that his carrying tool was his offense ... but his offense wasn't real great. It was awesome at times and brutal at others.

3. What's your best path of development? AND, how uncommon is your skill set/size?
Yes, I'm well aware that you're paid handsomely to play against the best players in the world with the best coaches in the world if you're in the NBA. However, the NBA is also not going to wait on you if they can replace you easily? (i.e. For a guy like MCW, whatever his weaknesses, he's a 6'6" PG -- that's pretty rare and teams are going to give you a lot of rope to develop b/c of that fact.) If you're a kid who's most likely to make your mark offensively, my opinion is you need to be really good before you go b/c the D League and/or the end of the bench isn't a great spot for getting quality, game touches. IMO, there is something to be said for knowing that for 30+ games on a college floor you are going to be playing close to 40 mins and the offense will be, for the most part, run through you. That's pretty powerful in terms of development.

So where does that leave Lydon? I don't know. I'm cool with whatever he decides to do but I would argue that a stretch 4 needs to be a really good offensive player. I don't know about draft position but in terms of being ready for the NBA, Lydon could absolutely grow by learning what he is offensively and how he fits best. It's hard to argue against taking first-round money but I certainly think a Lydon who kills it in the offseason with workouts and developing his game and then puts up a huge junior season could be a really nice option for developing into a player that is a regular rotation guy for 8-10 years in the NBA.
I don't disagree with much of what you said. My point was that there is not a major out there that walks into a job, after earning a 4 year degree, which earns more than a guaranteed contract, regardless of the player's level of intelligence.

Based on what limited information I have on Mali, I still think he made the correct decision.
 
I don't disagree with much of what you said. My point was that there is not a major out there that walks into a job, after earning a 4 year degree, which earns more than a guaranteed contract, regardless of the player's level of intelligence.

Based on what limited information I have on Mali, I still think he made the correct decision.

Yeah, I have no information on Mali so I'm going with you on that one. And, regardless, if a kid wants to go it's fine. Whether it's 'right' or 'wrong' is somewhat irrelevant. If he doesn't want to be there the writing is on the wall.

My point was more that I think people -- not you specifically -- sometimes get wrapped up in the guaranteed $$$/draft position and I'd simply argue that for some guys there may be other options that help them long term. That said, passing up a first round grade is clearly a gamble.
 
I don't understand the disappointment in TL. He is our most impactful player in nearly every game. He is our only consistent shot blocker, rebounder, and defender. He is the only player on the team and one of the few I remember us having in years who impacts the game without taking any shots. Has he developed his low post game - not enough, but our ineptness at getting it to him on the block sort of makes that a jury is still out issue. He isn't great off the dribble we know that. He has an innate timing to block shots, battles on the glass, arely commits dumb fouls which on this team the last two years has been huge. Shows up every night. I also think he hasn't been 100% this season. He is not as explosive. Bad guard play, questionable S&C guidance - I would have declared yesterday.
 
I think what people fail to understand here is this:

Say Lydon comes back and averages 20 & 12 for the entire season. Syracuse runs a lot of it's offense through him. They make it to the Elite 8 but struggle against *insert whatever school you like*.

He is still going to be, at best, a mid first round pick. Look at Caleb Swanigan. Averaging 18 and 12. Slated to go AFTER Lydon with much better numbers.

It's fine to admit that you only want him back for your own selfish reasons and not for him to go earn millions. You can say all you'd like that he'd be stupid and he should stay and develop but last I checked if you go to the NBA (or D League) you have 1 job - play basketball. College is NOT the best place to develop your game. The longer you stay the longer NBA teams can find your weaknesses
 
I think what people fail to understand here is this:

It's fine to admit that you only want him back for your own selfish reasons and not for him to go earn millions. You can say all you'd like that he'd be stupid and he should stay and develop but last I checked if you go to the NBA (or D League) you have 1 job - play basketball. College is NOT the best place to develop your game. The longer you stay the longer NBA teams can find your weaknesses
I think some people fail to realize that some people like college. I don't have to admit I want him back for just my selfish reasons. I also hope he comes back because he loves his situation. He is a huge deal in front of huge crowds, surrounded by thousands of people his age (and half coeds to boot). I hope he is having the time of his life and realizes it.

I can understand people who want to cash in as soon as possible (ie Ennis), that was their goal/hope from the start. But I think you need to take into account the possibility that some others may have a different view. I always felt DC2 was going to be here for years, regardless of his draft position. And yes, of course you should say the D league is a job. For many people college life is better than a job. I wouldn't have wanted to leave college early for a job. I'm hoping TL is one of those people. He could do another glorious year on the hill, or go off and make money in obscurity in the D league. Do you think TL is looking at what Mal is going through and thinking "I wish that were me"?
 
I think some people fail to realize that some people like college. I don't have to admit I want him back for just my selfish reasons. I also hope he comes back because he loves his situation. He is a huge deal in front of huge crowds, surrounded by thousands of people his age (and half coeds to boot). I hope he is having the time of his life and realizes it.

I can understand people who want to cash in as soon as possible (ie Ennis), that was their goal/hope from the start. But I think you need to take into account the possibility that some others may have a different view. I always felt DC2 was going to be here for years, regardless of his draft position. And yes, of course you should say the D league is a job. For many people college life is better than a job. I wouldn't have wanted to leave college early for a job. I'm hoping TL is one of those people. He could do another glorious year on the hill, or go off and make money in obscurity in the D league. Do you think TL is looking at what Mal is going through and thinking "I wish that were me"?

Good post. I personally never begrudge these guys for pursuing their dreams and goals. The sooner the better, frankly. I mean, why not? Regarding Lydon, he's in a little different position than say Ennis. I feel like Ennis striked while it was hot. He was what he was/is as a player. I don't think he had any more upside, frankly. I was shocked he was picked where he was and the following year he would've slid by default against better talents. I think Lydon could really improve still. His basic skillset will always be wanted by the NBA. He just needs to transform his body better, get some more explosion or get it back, work on creating his own shot, etc. It's doable. You see PF types make these kinds of jumps all the time. If he likes school then it's a win-win.
 
Good post. I personally never begrudge these guys for pursuing their dreams and goals. The sooner the better, frankly. I mean, why not? Regarding Lydon, he's in a little different position than say Ennis. I feel like Ennis striked while it was hot. He was what he was/is as a player. I don't think he had any more upside, frankly. I was shocked he was picked where he was and the following year he would've slid by default against better talents. I think Lydon could really improve still. His basic skillset will always be wanted by the NBA. He just needs to transform his body better, get some more explosion or get it back, work on creating his own shot, etc. It's doable. You see PF types make these kinds of jumps all the time. If he likes school then it's a win-win.
I can kind of see both sides. Those who appear to me like Ennis, all business, and whose crew approached it like a business. And those who might like the college experience and not want to leave.

Unfortunately, I think there may be too big of a risk to TL if he doesn't improve much (again) next year. It could mean he slides out of the first round. I guess that is too much of a financial hit to expect anyone to risk.

I like that they can seek out some advice prior to making these decisions. It would be interesting to me to know what they advise him.
 
I can kind of see both sides. Those who appear to me like Ennis, all business, and whose crew approached it like a business. And those who might like the college experience and not want to leave.

Unfortunately, I think there may be too big of a risk to TL if he doesn't improve much (again) next year. It could mean he slides out of the first round. I guess that is too much of a financial hit to expect anyone to risk.

I like that they can seek out some advice prior to making these decisions. It would be interesting to me to know what they advise him.

I hope he enjoys the college life and atmosphere. In the NBA you just become a jersey # if you aren't a superstar.

I made my post as a point to the people who think he can really improve his draft status/overall game. I don't believe he can. Therefore I think he should leave. I also like that they changed the draft rules where he can have better advice than you and I lol.
 
Ahhh. My favorite time of year. Here's the truth:

1. He can and should do whatever he wants based on as much evidence and informed opinion he can get his hands on.
2. Of that gathered info, we will have roughly 10% of it and will be unable to judge the decision when it happens.
3. Hindsight does not make us informed. Hindsight is easy.
4. In the end everyone will wish him them best because he wore the uni with pride and did good things wearing it.
 
who would be our line up next year? would it favorable for him or would have to play out of his normal position----just asking
 
who would be our line up next year? would it favorable for him or would have to play out of his normal position----just asking
We should have two viable options at Center with Sidibe and Chukwu. Thompson can play C/PF and we have Moyer and Brissett at the 3 but they both seem like they could play the 4 if needed, in a small ball lineup.

Lydon could play the 3 or 4 given our front court depth. Not sure which one gives him more ammo for draft stock but we could conceivably tell him, if he comes back, pick your spot and focus all summer on it.
 
We should have two viable options at Center with Sidibe and Chukwu. Thompson can play C/PF and we have Moyer and Brissett at the 3 but they both seem like they could play the 4 if needed, in a small ball lineup.

Lydon could play the 3 or 4 given our front court depth. Not sure which one gives him more ammo for draft stock but we could conceivably tell him, if he comes back, pick your spot and focus all summer on it.

I'll bite. If Lydon comes back:
Thompson
Lydon
Brissett
Battle
5th year
Moyer
Howard
Sidibe
Chukwu

I think Chukwu needs to show serious improvement just to be in the rotation. I'm higher on Sidibe tbh.
 
I think I see a flaw here.

Outside of his height, what did anyone see in Chukwu that would give them any optimism? I thought he'd help us before the season but as soon as I saw him play... Not so much. He was only slightly more coordinated than Cat Rescuer. He did show some glimpses of potential at PC. What was he doing during his shirt year?
 
What does he realistically gain from coming back? If he can get drafted in the mid 20's this season how much does he need to improve to get in the teens next season and is it even worth it? As fans we constantly ask the wrong questions about guys possibly leaving early. Barely any of them are ready and its all about getting into the draft when the scouts are judging you on your upside/potential and not worrying too much about he weaknesses in a young players game. The longer you stay the more pronounced the weaknesses and from an NBA perspective the less likely to be eliminated.

Does another season of Tyler showing that he is a good player and great shooter for his size BUT not an alpha type of player benefit him? That is the question. I hope he comes back and its quite possible at this point but if I'm his Dad I'm really wondering money wise if that is the best thing for him.
 
What does he realistically gain from coming back? If he can get drafted in the mid 20's this season how much does he need to improve to get in the teens next season and is it even worth it? As fans we constantly ask the wrong questions about guys possibly leaving early. Barely any of them are ready and its all about getting into the draft when the scouts are judging you on your upside/potential and not worrying too much about he weaknesses in a young players game. The longer you stay the more pronounced the weaknesses and from an NBA perspective the less likely to be eliminated.

Does another season of Tyler showing that he is a good player and great shooter for his size BUT not an alpha type of player benefit him? That is the question. I hope he comes back and its quite possible at this point but if I'm his Dad I'm really wondering money wise if that is the best thing for him.

I don't think it's as cut and dry as people make it. I don't get the term alpha dog either. I don't believe that means anything, especially for someone who will be a role player in the NBA.

Justin Jackson wasn't an alpha dog last year, came back and now he's a borderline lottery pick. Grayson Allen was an "alpha" dog and came back and now he's barely in the 2nd round.
 
I don't think it's as cut and dry as people make it. I don't get the term alpha dog either. I don't believe that means anything, especially for someone who will be a role player in the NBA.

Justin Jackson wasn't an alpha dog last year, came back and now he's a borderline lottery pick. Grayson Allen was an "alpha" dog and came back and now he's barely in the 2nd round.

Its not cut and dry but I was trying to point out why he would consider leaving. I could see either scenario at this point. Still from my perspective if you can get drafted for sure mid to low 20's its hard to justify coming back unless you have a Justin Jackson like junior season that gets you into the lottery. That's rare though and no where near a guarantee.
 
IMO, for Lydon to move up into the top-15 (I don't think top-10 is doable) the draft next season, he would have to turn himself into a 6'10" legit SF, dribble/drive, finish with both hands, continue hitting threes at 41%, and score 18-20 ppg. Unfortunately, I don't think he has that kind of athleticism. Alternatively, he could turn into a monster on defense from the PF spot, be a muscular 230-40, continue to hit threes, block shots, get 12-15 rebounds per 40, and score 16-18 ppg. Brice Johnson was that big bad PF without the 3s and ... he went 25th overall. Frank Kaminsky did pretty much everything Lydon does, most things better, and is 7 ft tall. He went 9th overall.

So, Lydon has a ceiling and its not very far from where he is already and would require a pretty major change in his game. I don't see it happening.
 
FWIW. ennis was second team all ACC. grant and malachi didn't make the cut. they all jumped.
tyler lydon barely squeaked in as an honorable mention (10). no telling what will happen but let's worry about it later. too late to impact next year's class anyways. thinking the staff fully expected him to leave.
 
I think what people fail to understand here is this:

Say Lydon comes back and averages 20 & 12 for the entire season. Syracuse runs a lot of it's offense through him. They make it to the Elite 8 but struggle against *insert whatever school you like*.

He is still going to be, at best, a mid first round pick. Look at Caleb Swanigan. Averaging 18 and 12. Slated to go AFTER Lydon with much better numbers.

It's fine to admit that you only want him back for your own selfish reasons and not for him to go earn millions. You can say all you'd like that he'd be stupid and he should stay and develop but last I checked if you go to the NBA (or D League) you have 1 job - play basketball. College is NOT the best place to develop your game. The longer you stay the longer NBA teams can find your weaknesses

Yes, i get the overall message, but swanigan is 6'5", 4 inches shorter than TL. Swanigan will have to play as a 2 in the nba.
 
Yes, i get the overall message, but swanigan is 6'5", 4 inches shorter than TL. Swanigan will have to play as a 2 in the nba.

He is listed by draft express as 6'9. Lydon at 6'10
 
Yes, i get the overall message, but swanigan is 6'5", 4 inches shorter than TL. Swanigan will have to play as a 2 in the nba.

I think your confusing Swanigan and someone else...
 

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