This is going to be a loooooong year

[Alsacs]

why in the world are you assuming that people are just reacting to the L and not what they saw?

Even if we came back and won I would have been disgusted. As our half-court offense looks like a clogged toilet efficiency wise. I am okay with a rebuilding year I just hate how outside of Christmas developing Cooney, Roberson haven't shown any development and Patterson/Johnson haven't been given the same minutes as Cooney to show what they can do.

 

[TheCusian]

You said that you could go back through three decades and find losses like tHis where we ended up fine. Those are your words. And almost all the losses you listed were NOT similar. .. our they happened to Syracuse teams that just weren't that good. Those qualifiers matter.

Syracuse wins games like this. At least they have in my twenty years of following this team. Which is not to say an NIT Berth is fait accompli. But I would say there's more reason for concern than they're was 24 hours ago.

There are no other seasons in which we lost to Cal at MSG in Nov. There are a lot of seasons that we had a mystifying loss in the first two months of the season and were fine (fine is relative term, no? - like making the NCAA's qualifies as "fine").

Syracuse wins and loses games like this. I've been following the team just as long as you have. There's always reason for concern when we lose. It's just not predictive of any outcome for the season. Which was the thrust of my original post.

 

[OttoMets]

Even if we came back and won I would have been disgusted. As our half-court offense looks like a clogged toilet efficiency wise. I am okay with a rebuilding year I just hate how outside of Christmas developing Cooney, Roberson haven't shown any development and Patterson/Johnson haven't been given the same minutes as Cooney to show what they can do.

Blasphemy, I know, but couldn't the Hall of Fame coach with the Olympic experience tweak his offensive scheme to fit his young personnel?

The clogged toilet offense has needed a plunger for three years now. Time to put the young players in a better position to succeed. Isolation and heaving contested threes isn't doing it.

 

[TheCusian]

why in the world are you assuming that people are just reacting to the L and not what they saw?

Dasher said "we won't be good" ... My point was that people shouldn't base the future on one games worth of performance. It's not backed up by the data.

I then said if you want to use the eyeball test - go ahead - we looked bad. That's still not enough to predict the rest of the season. If you take my list and just limit it to games where we got crushed and looked bad - it still doesn't predict anything at all.

So - let's wrap this up shall we:

A loss is bad. Always. One early season loss is not predictive of anything at all. Historically, empirically, and with the good old eyeball test.

 

[HOFCeluck]

There are no other seasons in which we lost to Cal at MSG in Nov. There are a lot of seasons that we had a mystifying loss in the first two months of the season and were fine (fine is relative term, no? - like making the NCAA's qualifies as "fine").

Syracuse wins and loses games like this. I've been following the team just as long as you have. There's always reason for concern when we lose. It's just not predictive of any outcome for the season. Which was the thrust of my original post.

It's one thing to lose in the first two months after we've played and beaten a couple good teams. Its been one week into the regular season and we lost our first game we play against a semi - quality opponent. ... and it wasn't very competitive.

 

[TheCusian]

And to be fair to Dasher, his last sentence was spot on. We have been spoiled. An early season loss combined with how we looked combined with our recent string of not losing until Jan/Feb makes this feel worse.

 

[Alsacs]

Dasher said "we won't be good" ... My point was that people shouldn't base the future on one games worth of performance. It's not backed up by the data.

I then said if you want to use the eyeball test - go ahead - we looked bad. That's still not enough to predict the rest of the season. If you take my list and just limit it to games where we got crushed and looked bad - it still doesn't predict anything at all.

So - let's wrap this up shall we:

A loss is bad. Always. One early season loss is not predictive of anything at all. Historically, empirically, and with the good old eyeball test.

Dasher and I clash all the time. He was saying his opinion which was fair. If this team makes the NCAA tournament then it will have over-achieved. I don't know what Dasher meant 100% but I took his comment to mean this a rebuilding year and not a NC contender like we have been every year since 2009 as we have been a top 4 seed in the NCAA tournament every year since 2009.

We aren't good offensively. Expecting our defense to hold up is not good as we are young. If we average 65 ppg I will be shocked. I think we scrap an NCAA tournament berth this year, but we aren't good and have shown no development from any of our returning players from last year except Rak Christmas.

 

[TheCusian]

It's one thing to lose in the first two months after we've played and beaten a couple good teams. Its been one week into the regular season and we lost our first game we play against a semi - quality opponent. ... and it wasn't very competitive.

Honestly - your making my point for me. I think a loss early is less worrisome than a loss late in the season. It was the frosh's first game in MSG in only their 3rd game as college players.

It's not good but - It's not predictive. It's just not.

 

[TheCusian]

Dasher and I clash all the time. He was saying his opinion which was fair. If this team makes the NCAA tournament then it will have over-achieved. I don't know what Dasher meant 100% but I took his comment to mean this a rebuilding year and not a NC contender like we have been every year since 2009 as we have been a top 4 seed in the NCAA tournament every year since 2009.

We aren't good offensively. Expecting our defense to hold up is not good as we are young. If we average 65 ppg I will be shocked. I think we scrap an NCAA tournament berth this year, but we aren't good and have shown no development from any of our returning players from last year except Rak Christmas.

Yeah - that's fair. I guess it's where your expectations are. I thought we'd drop a few games early, be written off and then start to emerge in ACC play - ending as a 5-10 seed. To me "not good" means NIT.

 

[OttoMets]

It's one thing to lose in the first two months after we've played and beaten a couple good teams. Its been one week into the regular season and we lost our first game we play against a semi - quality opponent. ... and it wasn't very competitive.

Exactly.

None of this is predictive, but I remember one season when we had a similar loss at this stage (November 2007). And that ended up being a bad season.

Between that and the eye test (struggled in every facet of offense, including free throw shooting; young forwards lost in the zone; everyone lost in transition defense), there's a hint that this might be a difficult year.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah - that's fair. I guess it's where your expectations are. I thought we'd drop a few games early, be written off and then start to emerge in ACC play - ending as a 5-10 seed. To me "not good" means NIT.

We are at best 8 seed in March Madness. Our backcourt needs to improve, Rak needs to learn not to get into foul trouble, and we need one of Roberson/Johnson/Patterson to develop into a scorer.

 

[CuseHulk]

We are at best 8 seed in March Madness. Our backcourt needs to improve, Rak needs to learn not to get into foul trouble, and we need one of Roberson/Johnson/Patterson to develop into a scorer.

Connecticut, was a 9 seed in the Tournament last year. And won the whole thing.

Seeding is irrelevant. Get to the Tournament, and anything can happen.

 

[Alsacs]

Connecticut, was a 9 seed in the Tournament last year. And won the whole thing.

Seeding is irrelevant. Get to the Tournament, and anything can happen.

UConn was a 7 seed who got to play in Buffalo and MSG before the Final Four. They beat Florida in the Final Four which was a team they beat at home and a flawed Kentucky in the NC title game. Give them credit they nutted up and won it all, but they had Napier and Boatright who could shoot and beat people off the dribble. For the love of my sanity please don't compare us to the biggest outlier NC of alltime or 2nd if you want to say 1985 Villanova.

 

[RoysRunts]

We sure were spoiled by Tyler Ennis (A Great Point Guard) I became a Fan of SU because of the Run/press type of team Bing's team then the RoysRunts. SU basketball was entertaining but IMO the Zone exclusiveness has taken the entertainment out of SU.

 

[CuseHulk]

UConn was a 7 seed who got to play in Buffalo and MSG before the Final Four. They beat Florida in the Final Four which was a team they beat at home and a flawed Kentucky in the NC title game. Give them credit they nutted up and won it all, but they had Napier and Boatright who could shoot and beat people off the dribble. For the love of my sanity please don't compare us to the biggest outlier NC of alltime or 2nd if you want to say 1985 Villanova.

7, 8, 9. Whatever.

Posters, are acting like this team is without talent, and won't get better as the season progresses.

If you are writing off this team and season after 3 games, You are crazy.

3 freaking games !!!

 

[swish7]

More Gbinije please

It's gonna be a long green bananas kind of year.

We're going to witness some bad ball. And as soon as that opinion is mentioned we'll hear the usual 'it's November, etc', And in February, we might hear 'wait til next year'.

It has the potential to be as frustrating as last year's 3-6 dip.

We have enough 'talent' (athleticism) across the board. On defense, they looked more than solid at times. On offense, there was poor spacing, poor shot selection, selfishness, all coupled with a few small flashes of goodness. McCollough looked like a potential stud. Rak made some nice moves to the bucket, but couldn't finish. They are the anti or bizarro version of the San Antonio Spurs. It's a brand of offensive play that I've always personally hated. I promise to say kinder and gentler throughout this difficult season.

On offense, they need to correct a lot, a LOT, for this to be an enjoyable year. You cannot just 'roll the ball out' with this group. There are no on-the-court coaches or examples, like a Melo or DC to make up for the broad low bball iq.

 

[elimunelson]

You' d have to be completely blind to not acknowledge that things will be harder than last year. I like to believe the coaching staff can coach up and the team will improve going into March. It's a shock to the system after this golden era of 25-30 win seasons. This could be a 18-20 type season. That's just my realistic view of how they look so far.

I'll enjoy it for what it is. A team that will be going in an upward trajectory as the season goes on. The lumps will hurt. NOW, if the team doesn't improve and regresses then that will be a troubling thing. I don't think it happens b/c talent wins out.

 

[pearl31]

Cal is probably not even 2009 Cleveland State

Come on, man. I always respect your take on things, but this is ridiculous. Cal this year should be a legit tourney team, even a threat to 'zona in the pac

 

[OttoMets]

Come on, man. I always respect your take on things, but this is ridiculous. Cal this year should be a legit tourney team, even a threat to 'zona in the pac

I'll come back and eat some crow if they have a good season, but I'm thinking they're a 21-10-ish bunch. I'm usually suspicious of West Coast teams (remember all the board talk about what a great year Stanford was going to have in 2012 when we only beat them by 9 or 10?).

Also, Cleveland State was a Sweet 16 team that year, I believe. Pretty good team.

 

[pearl31]

I'll come back and eat some crow if they have a good season, but I'm thinking they're a 21-10-ish bunch. I'm usually suspicious of West Coast teams (remember all the board talk about what a great year Stanford was going to have in 2012 when we only beat them by 9 or 10?).

Also, Cleveland State was a Sweet 16 team that year, I believe. Pretty good team.

Yeah, I'll guess we'll have to see how things play out - I do agree, though, on West-coast teams in general

 

[HOFCeluck]

Cleveland state was legit. They played a wake forest team that spent some time at number one in the country and curb stomped them.

 

[pearl31]

Cleveland state was legit. They played a wake forest team that didn't done time at number one in the country and curb stomped them.

True, I'd forgotten that Clev St team was actually good and not just some fluke upset of us in the dome

 

[Eagles20]

If the SG were Ray Allen he could have put the ball on the floor and driven to the hole and got to the FT.
Cooney is so easy to defend and gets 35 mpg without question from JB. Cut his minutes down as he is not helping the offense. Kaleb Joseph is expected to have games where he struggles he is a freshman PG, our 4th year junior is suppose to be way more polished offensively, but all you have to do is get in his grill and not let him catch and shoot and he will be shutdown or take an off balanced shot which he misses at a high percentage.
Cooney's defense is not elite it's decent and not bad, but the annoying thing is seeing Mike Gbinije NOT getting as many minutes as him and not having the same patience from JB.
Honestly it is not right how Cooney is immune from legit criticism I want the kid to succeed as he is a legit D-1 player but either his role has to change or we are screwed.
If we had TC 2013-2014 in 2012-13 with MCW and Triche then its perfect. As a lead SG he has stunk since after the ND game last February.
Give Mike G 30 minutes and TC 20-25 minutes.

Why does cooney being on the court take away from Mike's minutes directly? It's not like that is the only spot he plays. He can sub for 3 positions and get minutes. If he starts it should be over Roberson as a wing in the zone. Right now everyone who played yesterday shouldn't be immune to legit criticism, but someone Cooney is the one who needs to sits. No one played well yesterday offensively or defensively. They all had moments that were poor. And cooney did put the ball on the floor yesterday more than I ever saw him. I didn't see Patterson get in the lane or even attempt to, but his nba 3 was nice fresh off the bench.

 

[Alsacs]

Why does cooney being on the court take away from Mike's minutes directly? It's not like that is the only spot he plays. He can sub for 3 positions and get minutes. If he starts it should be over Roberson as a wing in the zone. Right now everyone who played yesterday shouldn't be immune to legit criticism, but someone Cooney is the one who needs to sits. No one played well yesterday offensively or defensively. They all had moments that were poor. And cooney did put the ball on the floor yesterday more than I ever saw him. I didn't see Patterson get in the lane or even attempt to, but his nba 3 was nice fresh off the bench.

Patterson minutes played 10.
Cooney minutes played 32.

Mike G has to be backup PG. Our spacing on offense is poor because we have a SG who can't create his own offense, a SF who has the tighest leash on the team, a C who is our best offensive option but can't stay out of foul trouble, and two freshman at PG and PF playing a lot of minutes.

Cooney and Rak are the experienced guys. Rak has shown improvement what improvement has Cooney shown? I would like to see Patterson be able to play Cooney's minutes in a couple of games before I criticize him. I love how you call out Patterson, but Cooney gets praise. Jeez your really objective.

 

[RF2044]

Dasher and I clash all the time. He was saying his opinion which was fair. If this team makes the NCAA tournament then it will have over-achieved. I don't know what Dasher meant 100% but I took his comment to mean this a rebuilding year and not a NC contender like we have been every year since 2009 as we have been a top 4 seed in the NCAA tournament every year since 2009.

We aren't good offensively. Expecting our defense to hold up is not good as we are young. If we average 65 ppg I will be shocked. I think we scrap an NCAA tournament berth this year, but we aren't good and have shown no development from any of our returning players from last year except Rak Christmas.

What about Michael Gbinije?