UConn and the Big 12

[CousCuse]

With six states in New England, no one should expect the flagship of one of the states to be the school of the region.

I'm not as interested in UConn being New England's school as I'm interested in the ACC being New England's Conference. I just don't see the ACC getting there without building interest in the ACC in Connecticut which has 25% of the population of New England. I don't see the ACC being able to do it at all without UConn. That's all. Boston College needs so much work in everything other than ice hockey.

The ACC can walk away from New England and let another conference have it, sure. But then what is the strategy of the ACC? I thought it was to build brand in the northeast. But maybe not.

I'm in agreement with you on building a stronger ACC brand in the northeast .The only state they have a majority share in at this point is New York . I guess Mass/ New England as well , but that is where UCONN in another P5 could take precedence there as well . I've been having a feeling that the BIG12 muddied this expansion so as to not allow the ACC to be proactive , and grab UCONN while no one is looking .

 

[CousCuse]

No, there would be no traction. No one outside of CT cares about UConn at all. Hell, where I live in CT -- Farifield County -- UConn is not a particularly big deal. The fanbase is largely centered around Hartford and New Haven. Which is fine, that's about 2.5 million people, but it doesn't extend anywhere else in New England, and never will.

The ACC has Boston, and has significant interest in NYC due to SU, Duke, UNC and Notre Dame. That's plenty, it doesn't need UConn at all.

Are you saying no one cares about UCONN football or they don't care about any UCONN sports , men's or women's basketball?

 

[orange79]

Are you saying no one cares about UCONN football or they don't care about any UCONN sports , men's or women's basketball?

If I may speak for the esteemed Scooch, I believe he is talking about all of them, but particularly football. Outside of CT, everyone hates UConn BB (men's and especially women's). No one cares about their football program. Even their fan base. And in conference expansion, football drives the bus.

I will gladly admit it if I am wrong about his thinking, but I have a feeling I'm not.

 

[ConnectiCuse]

I work in western MA and there are zero UConn fans here for any sport. Plenty of UMass fans though - despite their lack of recent athletic success.

 

[TheCusian]

Are you saying no one cares about UCONN football or they don't care about any UCONN sports , men's or women's basketball?

CFB is the primary reason for expansion as it brings the most valuable TV contracts. UCONN football doesn't move the needle.

If they could get ND AND UCONN, I'd think about it. But I'd still prefer WVU.

 

[CousCuse]

I work in western MA and there are zero UConn fans here for any sport. Plenty of UMass fans though - despite their lack of recent athletic success.

Pretty rural in western Mass .

 

[CuseOnly]

It takes the ratings of 3 good college basketball games to equal the ratings of 1 bad college football game.

Basketball doesn't get the ratings that football does and that is why TV money/ADs come mainly from football. No expansion should be for basketball reasons. This is why UConn is in trouble for Big XII expansion unless they want a Northeast school for footprint. I think Cincinnati/Houston are in and if they go 14 then BYU and UConn sneak in.

This sounds like a great argument, but it depends on the program just like it does in football.

Figure in that there are 3x as many basketball games as football games, then think about what that means for content to an ESPN and how valuable it is to them to have that much programming.

I could be wrong but I would put the combined ratings and viewership of 3 DUKE vs UNC basketball games against an Alabama vs LSU game any day.

 

[Alsacs]

This sounds like a great argument, but it depends on the program just like it does in football.

Figure in that there are 3x as many basketball games as football games, then think about what that means for content to an ESPN and how valuable it is to them to have that much programming.

I could be wrong but I would put the combined ratings and viewership of 3 DUKE vs UNC basketball games against an Alabama vs LSU game any day.

I would say great FB games like Alabama-LSU would probably be 4 or 5 great CBB games just because FB is more popular.

However 3 UNC-Duke games would probably be better than Alabama-Arkansas or LSU-Mississippi State FB game.

 

[Scooch]

Are you saying no one cares about UCONN football or they don't care about any UCONN sports , men's or women's basketball?

Definitely football. But even for hoops the interest in Fairfield County is much, much lower than it is elsewhere in the state. And no UConn sport registers outside of CT, certainly not in Boston.

And it never will. New England cares about the Sox, Pats, Bruins, Celtics.

 

[ConnectiCuse]

Pretty rural in western Mass .

I'm guessing that your point is that the rural character of western MA makes it irrelevant, but if that's your criteria then you also have to write off all of NE except for greater Boston and Fairfield county CT - neither of which are hotbeds of UConn support.

 

[Scooch]

I think my issue is that I'm valuing more than college football, and that's against the grain. The ACC does a lot of other stuff well, and the ACC Network is certain to showcase more of this other stuff. ACC football is the best its ever been right now. So I wasn't as concerned about a football power. I understand UConn's role in College Football. They have less than 15 years in FBS. And you're right. In the Northeast for college football there is Notre Dame and Penn State. No one else drives much outside of their living alumni, and no one else packs large stadiums or sends large crowds to bowl games in the entire region, not just New England. The ACC has a piece of Notre Dame. That carries the water for the ACC somewhat in the fall. But I'm not sure much of New England or the northeast for that matter watches the other Notre Dame sports passionately in the region. The ACC has winter and spring to worry about too. It could be worse though. The ACC could be stuck with Rutgers who doesn't bring football, and they don't bring anything else. I'm glad we passed on that for sure.

The ACC missed the chance to own the east coast in the way that the Pac-12 owns the west coast. Back in the day they would have needed to expand with BC, UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, VaTech, and Miami. And of course they needed to retain Maryland and attract Penn State at some point. No one in the conference was ever that bold, so they took half-measures, like every other conference in expansion.

No one conference will ever own the northeast or east coast at this point. But the ACC is in a good place all things considered.

 

[Garrett_TD23]

I think it's fine people hate UConn, many people hate ND but will tune into the game to see them lose. I think you also have to think about post season distributions, UConn will almost always make the NCAAT, hell their women's team will win it every year.

 

[Btstimpy]

The ACC missed the chance to own the east coast in the way that the Pac-12 owns the west coast. Back in the day they would have needed to expand with BC, UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, VaTech, and Miami. And of course they needed to retain Maryland and attract Penn State at some point. No one in the conference was ever that bold, so they took half-measures, like every other conference in expansion.

No one conference will ever own the northeast or east coast at this point. But the ACC is in a good place all things considered.

I agree. The opportunity for the ACC to own the northeast was gone when Penn State went to the Big Ten. And now that the Big Ten also has Rutgers and Maryland, they solidify a place in the Mid-Atlantic. What I'm analyzing here is whether or not the ACC has an opportunity to own New England if the ACC had both Boston College and Connecticut. This opportunity still exists. But if the Big XII enters the equation and takes UConn, is that opportunity gone forever for the ACC?

That's where I'm at. And what does the ACC lose longer term if we pass on this opportunity? I'm not at all concerned about losing Rutgers or Maryland. According to the NY Times map of college football fan preference, less than 15% of college football fans in the state of New Jersey are Rutgers fans. And, in Maryland less than 30% are Maryland fans for most of the state. This is among college football fans, and we already know professional sports dominate both states. Penn State has high support in both New Jersey and Maryland, so their additions were just as play things for Penn State.

But in Connecticut, more than 60% of college football fans support UConn. I don't want to see the ACC pass on an opportunity it will regret when it has the chance. I don't know if the Big XII will invite UConn, but they are on a short list. How many fans UConn has outside of Connecticut isn't as important as how many they have within Connecticut IMO.

This is the map I'm referring to: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/03/upshot/ncaa-football-map.html?_r=0

 

[orange79]

But in Connecticut, more than 60% of college football fans support UConn. I don't want to see the ACC pass on an opportunity it will regret when it has the chance. I don't know if the Big XII will invite UConn, but they are on a short list. How many fans UConn has outside of Connecticut isn't as important as how many they have within Connecticut IMO.

The problem is, 60% of a small number is an even smaller number. Not enough to move the dial, IMO.

 

[CuseOnly]

I would say great FB games like Alabama-LSU would probably be 4 or 5 great CBB games just because FB is more popular.

However 3 UNC-Duke games would probably be better than Alabama-Arkansas or LSU-Mississippi State FB game.

Last Year's UNC vs Duke game had 4.136 million viewers - a record
Duke-North Carolina on ESPN is Season’s Most-Viewed College Basketball Game on Any Network

Last Year's Alabama vs LSU game had 11.1 million viewers - also a record (2014's game only drew a bit over 9 million viewers)
LSU-Alabama showdown sets record ratings for CBS

Making my statement true 4.136 x 3 is more than 11.1 million

Basketball is more valuable to Networks than they care to admit, because they don't want to pay what it's actual value is.

 

[gbo]

I just can't believe the amount of people in this thread advocating for UConn to be added to the ACC. I've mentioned it before and will again, football drives the bus now. Basketball is great and all that but it makes a fraction of what football does. It's why Louisville was added when Maryland left and UConn wasn't.

 

[HtownOrange]

I just can't believe the amount of people in this thread advocating for UConn to be added to the ACC. I've mentioned it before and will again, football drives the bus now. Basketball is great and all that but it makes a fraction of what football does. It's why Louisville was added when Maryland left and UConn wasn't.

UConn and Syracuse have had some great hoops games, we all love that. However, UConn is an upstart in football, they have no significant history. Unfortunately, many Syracuse fans translate the hoops rivalry to football (my nephew included) when there simply isn't anything there. UConn won several games because Syracuse was down, nothing more. As for location, UConn is a wonderful choice for Syracuse, but again, that does not make for a solid conference mate in football. You are spot on as to why Louisville was selected over UConn.

On the money side, TV is using the football v. hoops argument to handle contracts but the B1G just doubled their deal and we all know that their football isn't worth that much alone (most people would watch SEC football over B1G football given the choice). Plus, hoops offers more variety and time slots. Everyone likes to compare the per game viewing but conveniently forget that hoops has triple the number of games (and a better tourney!). The reality is that TV is still underpaying for broadcast rights to Division 1 sports, there is more money for football and far more money for hoops than TV is currently paying. There is probably some money for baseball, lacrosse, hockey and a few other sports, too. TV simply does not want to pay more than they have to, it's just business.

Regardless, taking UConn is not the wisest choice at this time. There are several other teams that are more valuable and with the Big 12 issues unresolved, there are several more teams in the potential pool. No need to take UConn right now. If ND or UT said they would join if the ACC included UConn, that would be acceptable, but it is an opinion and hypothetical and not worth debate.

 

[SU2NASA]

Or let them wither in the wind

NO ONE is taking them

Better packages out there

That's the best part. At this point I think they'd trade all of their national titles to be relevant again.

They're screwed and all they'll have is some banners as they descend into becoming the next UMass.

 

[TheCusian]

Last Year's UNC vs Duke game had 4.136 million viewers - a record Duke-North Carolina on ESPN is Season’s Most-Viewed College Basketball Game on Any Network Last Year's Alabama vs LSU game had 11.1 million viewers - also a record (2014's game only drew a bit over 9 million viewers) LSU-Alabama showdown sets record ratings for CBS Making my statement true 4.136 x 3 is more than 11.1 million Basketball is more valuable to Networks than they care to admit, because they don't want to pay what it's actual value is.

Which one would you invest your advertising dollars in?

 

[CousCuse]

I just can't believe the amount of people in this thread advocating for UConn to be added to the ACC. I've mentioned it before and will again, football drives the bus now. Basketball is great and all that but it makes a fraction of what football does. It's why Louisville was added when Maryland left and UConn wasn't.

How would you like it if BC was the closest conference team to you and supposed to be your big rivalry game ? Pitt is just there , they never have generated any real emotional response of any scale . For a long time we had Penn State but that's gone , then during the Big East we had things building up with Miami , VTECH and WVU . Those are all gone as well . Rutgers was the last team that SU fans got wound up for , for different reasons , gone too . SU does not have a real rivalry and a team needs a real rivalry to define itself .

 

[Toga]

If I was UConn and I actually got a verifiable B12 offer, I'd immediately be on the horn to Swofford. Not that I think they are getting an offer.

 

[bnoro]

How would you like it if BC was the closest conference team to you and supposed to be your big rivalry game ? Pitt is just there , they never have generated any real emotional response of any scale . For a long time we had Penn State but that's gone , then during the Big East we had things building up with Miami , VTECH and WVU . Those are all gone as well . Rutgers was the last team that SU fans got wound up for , for different reasons , gone too . SU does not have a real rivalry and a team needs a real rivalry to define itself .

UConn v Syracuse is not a football rivalry.

 

[CousCuse]

UConn v Syracuse is not a football rivalry.

Who is our rival ? This is an issue for Syracuse football , it was one of the reasons that it went downhill after 2003 , IMHO .I also think UConn is a good football team . They were the only team to beat Houston last year and I thought maybe that was a fluke . So when they played in their bowl game against against Doc Holliday's fast paced offense I thought they would get run off the field , not so fast my friend . They held Marshall to 16 points and if they had even a decent walk on QB ,would have won that game . Bob Diaco is getting some cred .

 

[RMH44]

UConn v Syracuse is not a football rivalry.

...and NEVER will be.

 

[gbo]

How would you like it if BC was the closest conference team to you and supposed to be your big rivalry game ? Pitt is just there , they never have generated any real emotional response of any scale . For a long time we had Penn State but that's gone , then during the Big East we had things building up with Miami , VTECH and WVU . Those are all gone as well . Rutgers was the last team that SU fans got wound up for , for different reasons , gone too . SU does not have a real rivalry and a team needs a real rivalry to define itself .

I thought Clemson was Syracuse's rival???

I understand where you're coming from but no one is going to tune in to watch UConn play Syracuse in football. For that matter no one is going to watch Clemson play UConn either. I get that they offer basketball credibility but that's about it. As much as I like Wake Forest people, they don't offer much at all in revenue sports, same with BC. The conference does not need another nonfactor school.