We are really, really bad.

[CuseFaninVT]

Oh, I actually agree with you wholeheartedly.

I have many times said that if it weren't for the locals, SU wouldn't have an athletic program any different from Colgate's. The locals are the core of the fan support.

BUT;

Based on what I read on here there appear to be alums and non-alums, who seem to like nothing about the program.

They dislike Boeheim and criticize for everything from how he handles the press to what he wears to how his teams play. When SU loses, they say, it's because JB was "outcoached".

The don't like SU's style of play or the defensive or offensive philosophies.

They are critical of the players, sometimes mercilessly (Look at the posts on here proclaiming the current players "stink".)

So, if you are not an alum or even if you are, don't like Boeheim, don't like our signature defense or how we play offense, and think the players "stink", than what is it that makes you think you are an SU fan?

It's sort of the opposite of "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ..."

These guys are rooting for a program that doesn't exist or one they wish existed.

IMO opinion, JB made SU basketball and for all intents an purposes, he IS SU basketball. Without him, SU is Seton Hall.

When the SU hoops team has more talented players than the other team and still loses, whose fault is it?

Every loss isn't on JB. Some are though. Regardless of your opinion and his history at the school.

 

[Townie72]

Boeheim having any number of wins has nothing to do with what anyone on here knows about basketball.

But I think you're aware of that.

In reality, "HOF" or "wins" is old board shorthand for "I can't bother to analyze the game, so I'll stoop to ad hominem cloaked in praise of the coach instead."

I agree with your statement, "Boeheim having any number of wins has nothing to do with what anyone on here knows about basketball."

What is has to do with is what Boeheim knows about basketball and nothing about what our "Can't we just try M2M occasionally" contributors know.

Now you are right when you say that his resume compared to those of his constant critics does have the affect of putting their opinions into perspective.

But, deconstructing what they are saying over and over is a lot of work.

Let me suggest a middle ground. At the top of their posts, they could put JB's current win total and their own. That might cause them to consider what they are typing.

It won't stop them. The pain of frustration is too strong. And they have been schooled by Billy Packer and other commentators for too long. ("If Team A keeps making those 3's, it'll force Team B out of that zone."

 

[NineOneSeven]

I agree with your statement, "Boeheim having any number of wins has nothing to do with what anyone on here knows about basketball."

What is has to do with is what Boeheim knows about basketball and nothing about what our "Can't we just try M2M occasionally" contributors know.

Now you are right when you say that his resume compared to those of his constant critics does have the affect of putting their opinions into perspective.

But, deconstructing what they are saying over and over is a lot of work.

Let me suggest a middle ground. At the top of their posts, they could put JB's current win total and their own. That might cause them to consider what they are typing.

It won't stop them. The pain of frustration is too strong. And they have been schooled by Billy Packer and other commentators for too long. ("If Team A keeps making those 3's, it'll force Team B out of that zone."

What is wrong with you?

 

[Townie72]

When the SU hoops team has more talented players than the other team and still loses, whose fault is it?

Every loss isn't on JB. Some are though. Regardless of your opinion and his history at the school.

Ahaa!

I see your problem!

You are all about assigning blame and fault.

And as long as you are all about that you won't get it.

Basketball is a game of milliseconds and millimeters. Teams with better athletes, better coaches, better facilities, more money, etc., etc, frequently lose to worse teams. It the nature of the game. It's random. It's frequently nobody's fault.

So when you get on the forum and start assigning blame, you are not recognizing the randomness of the game.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Ahaa!

I see your problem!

You are all about assigning blame and fault.

And as long as you are all about that you won't get it.

Basketball is a game of milliseconds and millimeters. Teams with better athletes, better coaches, better facilities, more money, etc., etc, frequently lose to worse teams. It the nature of the game. It's random. It's frequently nobody's fault.

So when you get on the forum and start assigning blame, you are not recognizing the randomness of the game.

Nope, looking for root cause so that I can understand how to address the problem. It's what I do.

When are offense is anemic for game after game after game, there is no randomness to recognize.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Oh, I actually agree with you wholeheartedly.

I have many times said that if it weren't for the locals, SU wouldn't have an athletic program any different from Colgate's. The locals are the core of the fan support.

BUT;

Based on what I read on here there appear to be alums and non-alums, who seem to like nothing about the program.

They dislike Boeheim and criticize for everything from how he handles the press to what he wears to how his teams play. When SU loses, they say, it's because JB was "outcoached".

The don't like SU's style of play or the defensive or offensive philosophies.

They are critical of the players, sometimes mercilessly (Look at the posts on here proclaiming the current players "stink".)

So, if you are not an alum or even if you are, don't like Boeheim, don't like our signature defense or how we play offense, and think the players "stink", than what is it that makes you think you are an SU fan?

It's sort of the opposite of "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ..."

These guys are rooting for a program that doesn't exist or one they wish existed.

IMO opinion, JB made SU basketball and for all intents an purposes, he IS SU basketball. Without him, SU is Seton Hall.

I understand and respect your opinion. I would not have responded had your original post included ALL fans who criticize Boeheim and players.

I've read other posts of yours that chide non-alumni fans and wanted to address that sentiment.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I agree with your statement, "Boeheim having any number of wins has nothing to do with what anyone on here knows about basketball."

What is has to do with is what Boeheim knows about basketball and nothing about what our "Can't we just try M2M occasionally" contributors know.

Now you are right when you say that his resume compared to those of his constant critics does have the affect of putting their opinions into perspective.

But, deconstructing what they are saying over and over is a lot of work.

Let me suggest a middle ground. At the top of their posts, they could put JB's current win total and their own. That might cause them to consider what they are typing.

It won't stop them. The pain of frustration is too strong. And they have been schooled by Billy Packer and other commentators for too long. ("If Team A keeps making those 3's, it'll force Team B out of that zone."

You are so obnoxious. How many wins do you have that makes you feel like you have the right to make this demand?

When I bring my questions up to JB, I'll make sure to tell him how many wins I have coaching. But when posting on here, I'll just continue saying what I feel like saying.

 

[Townie72]

You are so obnoxious. How many wins do you have that makes you feel like you have the right to make this demand?

When I bring my questions up to JB, I'll make sure to tell him how many wins I have coaching. But when posting on here, I'll just continue saying what I feel like saying.

And JB promises to tell you about how many trees he has saved from a fungus when he come to your shop before giving you advice on your shortcomings.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

And JB promises to tell you about how many trees he has saved from a fungus when he come to your shop before giving you advice on your shortcomings.

And that's a fair deal. Although I'm not a flora/fauna kind of environmentalist. Stormwater/haz waste/compliance auditing are my wheelhouse.

 

[cuseguy]

I'm curious to see how JB fixes this or if he can fix it.

I wouldn't deign to tell JB what he ought to be doing to fix it because I'm not qualified to do so. A fact that doesn't restrain the constant Boeheim critics/whiners on here.

I'm not sure what JB faces this year can easily be fixed. I'm certain he's already thought long and hard about it.

He's already shuffled the lineup with hopes of creating more offense. He's told Howard to penetrate more and look for his bigs. He's worked to tighten up the zone.

But he has to play with the hand that he's been dealt.

Howard remains a talented athlete with many flaws and questionable basketball IQ. One of his biggest issues -- and I'm not sure it can be corrected -- is that he lacks finesse. He has trouble finishing, making the soft floater or even making free throws.

Our two forwards --,Lydon and White -- are basically jump shooters with little ability to take their man off the dribble. Neither is a good rebounder. They're not physical players.

Roberson remains an enigma. Battle is a talented freshman still finding his way. Coleman has some skills but isn't a great defender. Thompson demonstrates great potential.

Many of us underestimated how much we'd miss Gbiinje, Malachi and Cooney.

Great backcourt play is so essential, and we're not getting it right now. Will it turn around? Perhaps. But don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[pearl31]

What is wrong with you?

lol you chime in with repeated one-line snark and then accuse others of no-substance posting... if Townie's posts are so bothersome, so offensive why even continue to read them? why would you keep engaging with him if he's so terrible to you?

 

[two3zone]

I'm over the Big East teams. It really hampers our schedule that we have to use up 3 OOC games for them. The schedule is getting very repetitive when we play the same OOC teams every year. Would love a home/home with a PAC 12 or even a Butler or Creighton. Just change it up.

I would never sign up to play Butler or Creighton.

 

[two3zone]

There are just a few chronic-Boehem complainers on here.

If you are not an alum, I don't understand why you just don't go to Dick's and get the T-shirt of another school with coaching that you think is better.

I don't understand why you can't talk about the game and break it down.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think it's unfair to suggest Boeheim is a poor coach; he's proven to be one of the best. I DO think it's fair to question his coaching so far this season though. It's been ugly, and I think he's really struggled to make proper adjustments during games this season.

We looked pretty good through the first 2 exhibitions and the first 4 regular season games. We showed growth as a team. South Carolina was a punch in the mouth with their defense. Wisconsin was the same on the boards. The N Fla game they just shut off when they thought the game was over. They did the same thing against UConn when they went up 11. But they just aren't that solid in their execution to act like they can just turn it on and turn it off at this point.

They need to play the full 40 minutes, and it sure seems to me that they weren't passing the ball to Lydon in either the low post when he was matched with a smaller guy, or when he flashed open at the foul line against zone, in the last 2 or 3 games. Developing chemistry requires being unselfish and letting the open guy make the shot.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm not sure what JB faces this year can easily be fixed. I'm certain he's already thought long and hard about it.

He's already shuffled the lineup with hopes of creating more offense. He's told Howard to penetrate more and look for his bigs. He's worked to tighten up the zone.

But he has to play with the hand that he's been dealt.

Howard remains a talented athlete with many flaws and questionable basketball IQ. One of his biggest issues -- and I'm not sure it can be corrected -- is that he lacks finesse. He has trouble finishing, making the soft floater or even making free throws.

Our two forwards --,Lydon and White -- are basically jump shooters with little ability to take their man off the dribble. Neither is a good rebounder. They're not physical players.

Roberson remains an enigma. Battle is a talented freshman still finding his way. Coleman has some skills but isn't a great defender. Thompson demonstrates great potential.

Many of us underestimated how much we'd miss Gbiinje, Malachi and Cooney.

Great backcourt play is so essential, and we're not getting it right now. Will it turn around? Perhaps. But don't see it happening anytime soon.

I think we will know a lot more about this team in a month, and we will really know what we've got to work with after we've played a month of ACC ball, around February 1. Then, we'll know what we're up against this year, and what the ceiling is for this team. There is a lot of individual talent in this group. Boeheim has to teach them (or coax them) to play together. They got off to a great start.

What makes a great team is how they respond to adversity. It's here a little earlier than expected. They have a stretch now where they should get healthy and get their confidence back. We also ease into the ACC schedule a bit before the toughest teams come up. I remain hopeful. JB has made a big change to the lineup. He has made another big change by not playing Chukwu against Brimah, who is a similar player, but a year or two further along. At some point, we have to be able to teach our big guys how to be functional low post players in less than 3 or 4 years. Seriously. Other people develop much more well rounded centers much faster than we do.

 

[Townie72]

I don't understand why you can't talk about the game and break it down.

You can add this to the very long list of things you and the rest of the chronic complainers who "like" your post don't understand.