What must John Wildhack consider as he decides Dino Babers’ fate?

[Cusefan95]

While that may be true, SU tuition is far beyond most other schools. Therefore the hit is far bigger.

Just doing a quick search, Syracuse tuition is $57K/yr. Michigan out-of-state tuition is $53K. Ohio State and Penn State are around $35K.

Then Michigan and Penn State sponsor 29 sports. Ohio State sponsors 36. Syracuse sponsors 20.

So the difference isn’t as gigantic as you seem to be implying, AND larger state schools make up for a big chunk of the difference by sponsoring more sports.

Regardless, we have a school which has chosen to not prioritize athletic investments for 30+ years. Claiming we don’t have enough to pay the buyout of an unsuccessful football coach would just be maintaining the historical priorities at the university.

 

[kcsu]

If we get to a bowl dino will be back

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Using 2023 prices, you can get two 50 yard line season tickets for $1300 or you can go to only two games for around 1/4 of that price. You can easily save yourself over $750. The gap will be even worse next year if Dino is retained and prices go up.

Unless we see a dramatic turnaround, like finishing the season 4-0/3-1 with a bowl win and witnessing a well-coached and competent team, maybe even a slight uptick in the recruiting class, I won't renew my season tickets if Babers is retained.

 

[PhatOrange]

Spend every penny. It’s not a like they report to shareholders. If they’re paying their bills then who cares about operating 6 million in the black. Bigger office parties? Is Wildhack pinching penny’s so he gets a bigger bonus ?

 

[kcsu]

Just to be clear, no one from SU said anything in that article. The author of the piece is using conjecture and an anonymous source for his article.

It is not clear if that source is someone from SUAD. Based on the quotes the source provided, and how SUAD is run, I was be very surprised if it was.

Su has the buyout

 

[oldpinepoint]

If we get to a bowl dino will be back

And then what, he goes into his last season as a lame duck? You will have to extend him then

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Unless we fund NIL from the bottom to the top, nothing else matters. The only way to recruit with/over our peers, if we get the facilities mid-tier, is $$$.

The lack of interest in funding NIL (altho the board here has shown passion with the Cruz collective) from the fan base to date is concerning for the future. I certainly understand the position.

Ultimately, it seems that our current fan base and alumnae interested in committing to make Syracuse a relevant program in this new environment is just not enough.

Hopefully, that changes but not seeing the light quite yet.

Personally, I'm just lowering expectations. I'll keep my seasons and support the program to the best I can but I can't live and die with the outcomes anymore.

 

[kcsu]

Unless we fund NIL from the bottom to the top, nothing else matters. The only way to recruit with/over our peers, if we get the facilities mid-tier, is $$$.

The lack of interest in funding NIL (altho the board here has shown passion with the Cruz collective) from the fan base to date is concerning for the future. I certainly understand the position.

Ultimately, it seems that our current fan base and alumnae interested in committing to make Syracuse a relevant program in this new environment is just not enough.

Hopefully, that changes but not seeing the light quite yet.

Personally, I'm just lowering expectations. While I'll keep my seasons and support the program to the best I can but can't live and die with the outcomes anymore.

. Dont be fooled we have more than enough resources to play much better than we are. Losing is one thing but there is no reason other than terrible coaching for Syracuse to basically be out of 4 games in a row on national television at the end of the first quarter in each game.
This is 100% on the head coach and his staff. Not on a lack of NIL.

 

[OburgOrange]

Su has the buyout

Then use it

 

[OburgOrange]

If we get to a bowl dino will be back

 

[elimunelson]

If we get to a bowl dino will be back

I agree but that means he’s back for 3-4 more years. He will sign an extension. It’s not a tryout for next year.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

. Dont be fooled we have more than enough resources to play much better than we are. Losing is one thing but there is no reason other than terrible coaching for Syracuse to basically be out of 4 games in a row on national television at the end of the first quarter in each game.
This is 100% on the head coach and his staff. Not on a lack of NIL.

agreed, many are talking two different topics with regard to the program. NIL versus coaching competence. The record is 4-4 and after giving Dino what will be 8 years they certainly are going to give him the last few games here to try and salvage what looks to be a freefall right now. And if he wins only 4-5 games they really have no choice but to replace him and they will. If he were to turn this thing around and get to 6-6 or 7-5 then the discussion can take place but until then they will let it play out.

Now many are in the boat that even if Syracuse finishes 7-5 that Dino still needs to be replaced and they will not renew seasons etc etc. Well that is their choice and I certainly understand the frustration but expecting the University to just pull the plug after the VT game wasn't going to happen. Another no show versus BC and the seat only gets hotter but until the season can be determined as an abject failure record wise I don't see the University doing anything.

Even with the buyout and the limitations on what might be with what type of compensation they can offer a new head coach a 4-8 or 5-7 finish will certainly put that into motion. Nobody wants to sit through it and watch it unfold but there would be a new head coach for the 24 season with a losing record. It's 3-4 more weeks

 

[Cusefan95]

Sadly we have had bad leadership at all the wrong positions for the last twenty years. Doesn’t help you had a lousy chancellor (Cantor), and a lousy AD in gross where we got substantially behind. Now we are playing catch up however the next driver of the sport in NIL has come up. At some point you will have to bite the bullet and spend money to make money, they might involve taking a loss. But get the facilities done and make the commitment to NIL.

I’m a firm believer that you can’t have a coach go into the final year of his contract and not extend him. You can’t run a program like that. You can’t recruit, you can’t fundraise you can do much of anything, it’s a freaking disaster. Now the university has to crap or get off the pot. We will know by thanksgiving what will happen.

by all accounts the AD department is profitable. Maybe Carlson doesn’t understand fund accounting, beats me. It’s possible that the AD department generates a profit with all extra funds being sent to the main university budget, but that would be silly. Bottom line this is another hit job article on the university that is for click bait during a time when the program isn’t doing well.

I would absolutely guarantee Carlson doesn’t understand accounting - that’s not a knock on him, it’s that accounting is way more complicated than the average person with no accounting experience understands. I think the take that someone internal with an axe to grind fed him intentionally misleading info is supported by his claim the AD is break even.

 

[Cusefan95]

I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is the AD screwed up by not having any leverage (buy out money) for a coach they hire. It could be any coach, not just Dino. I like the guy. I just don’t want him coaching our team anymore

Let’s say everything you are assuming is true. Then as a hypothetical, go back to 2018, and we potentially have two options:

1) Give Dino a raise which stretches SU so thin they won’t have the money to buy him out if that year was a one year wonder. (What we did).

2). Not give him a raise and let him walk, taking a job at another school while SU hopes to hire a cheaper coach with the hopes he can get the result Dino just did. (What MAC schools do).

If those are the two options and you would pick option 2, what you are actually saying is Syracuse has no business being in the ACC - or any hope of sustaining even low level success in football.

I get the frustration with how the last 5 years have gone - but no one questioned paying Dino after 2018 and the board would have had a meltdown if we were cheap and let him walk. Trying to retroactively cast that as a bad decision is wildly unfair - it was the right decision at the time but clearly has not worked out.

 

[elimunelson]

Let’s say everything you are assuming is true. Then as a hypothetical, go back to 2018, and we potentially have two options:

1) Give Dino a raise which stretches SU so thin they won’t have the money to buy him out if that year was a one year wonder. (What we did).

2). Not give him a raise and let him walk, taking a job at another school while SU hopes to hire a cheaper coach with the hopes he can get the result Dino just did. (What MAC schools do).

If those are the two options and you would pick option 2, what you are actually saying is Syracuse has no business being in the ACC - or any hope of sustaining even low level success in football.

I get the frustration with how the last 5 years have gone - but no one questioned paying Dino after 2018 and the board would have had a meltdown if we were cheap and let him walk. Trying to retroactively cast that as a bad decision is wildly unfair - it was the right decision at the time but clearly has not worked out.

He deserved the raise and a long term one w a buyout. No one should argue w why we are here. He hasn’t provided consistent winning since the extension since

This is the time now to move on if it’s run its course. We can buy him out for sure the school I argue is making the argument for retention in case we end up in a 6-6 scenario.

It was the right decision and the right decision now may be to move on from a guy who is over 60 and not providing adequate results. It’s ok to move on.

 

[Cusefan95]

This is the time now to move on if it’s run its course. We can buy him out for sure the school I argue is making the argument for retention in case we end up in a 6-6 scenario.

It would be kinda hilarious if we go 6-6, have a big presser to say he’s staying…then get blown out so bad in the bowl game that he gets fired from the luxury boxes at halftime. It would be totally on brand.

 

[Scooch]

It would be kinda hilarious if we go 6-6, have a big presser to say he’s staying…then get blown out so bad in the bowl game that he gets fired from the luxury boxes at halftime. It would be totally on brand.

The people in charge now are 100X smarter about these sort of things than those who were in charge in 2004. That scenario would never happen today.

 

[orlandoorange]

Which is why this quote is so absurdly dumb I can barely process it...

"If you’re the Yankees, you should be beating everyone. If you’re the Royals, every win is a bonus. The way that you assess a coach has to change."

Such a stupid analogy. I guess I missed the Mets and Padres playing in the NLCS this season. If we've learned anything from pro sports over the past couple decades it's that simply spending a ton of money doesn't guarantee a damn thing.

You need to balance the appropriate amount of large salaries with oodles of cost-controlled talent. You need a player development pipeline to ensure you have that cost-controlled talent. You need great talent evaluators and coaching staff to build that pipeline.

The era of NIL is going to turn college programs into pseudo-MLB franchises from a financial management standpoint. Syracuse is a small-market team, but that doesn't mean we should shut the program down. We simply need to have smart people making smarter decisions.

I mean the Diamondbacks have MLB's 21st ranked payroll, after all.

Good points. I'm not sure you can apply professional sports to college anymore though. The Yankees can't buy a player from the Diamondbacks until the player hits fre agency. Everyone in college is fair game now.

 

[kcsu]

I agree but that means he’s back for 3-4 more years. He will sign an extension. It’s not a tryout for next year.

I posted this earlier. If he makes a bowl, he will be offered an extension but I'm sure it will be incentive based with a small buyout which is a good thing for both parties as the current deal was obviously one sided towards Dino.

 

[elimunelson]

I posted this earlier. If he makes a bowl, he will be offered an extension but I'm sure it will be incentive based with a small buyout which is a good thing for both parties as the current deal was obviously one sided towards Dino.

Dino is 62 years old right? Mac was 60 when he left Syracuse right? I mean at some point any extension has to consider this man's age coaching a game that spits out older people. This isn't a Syracuse legend we're protecting like James Arthur.

I wonder if they get to a bowl what Dino really wants. I'm sure he'd love a guaranteed 20 year deal but at some point he may not want this anymore. He's made what 15mm at Syracuse? His lifestyle may intersect with his health at some point wanting to continue with this nonsense.

I'm curious if he walks away. We're discounting this as a possibility.

 

[DuxburyO]

Dino is 62 years old right? Mac was 60 when he left Syracuse right? I mean at some point any extension has to consider this man's age coaching a game that spits out older people. This isn't a Syracuse legend we're protecting like James Arthur.

I wonder if they get to a bowl what Dino really wants. I'm sure he'd love a guaranteed 20 year deal but at some point he may not want this anymore. He's made what 15mm at Syracuse? His lifestyle may intersect with his health at some point wanting to continue with this nonsense.

I'm curious if he walks away. We're discounting this as a possibility.

Who in their right mind would walk away from 4+ million a year?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Dino is 62 years old right? Mac was 60 when he left Syracuse right? I mean at some point any extension has to consider this man's age coaching a game that spits out older people. This isn't a Syracuse legend we're protecting like James Arthur.

I wonder if they get to a bowl what Dino really wants. I'm sure he'd love a guaranteed 20 year deal but at some point he may not want this anymore. He's made what 15mm at Syracuse? His lifestyle may intersect with his health at some point wanting to continue with this nonsense.

I'm curious if he walks away. We're discounting this as a possibility.

I don’t think it’s out of the question. Lot of stress, long hours, etc, Syracuse job is not without it issues. He might just say f-it I’m done.

 

[elimunelson]

Who in their right mind would walk away from 4+ million a year?

not saying he's walking away from anything just wondering what length of an extension you give to a 62 year old man with mediocre credentials. if they win out i'm not sure how Wildhack would set this up. He probably would like another hoops situation where the next guy is on the staff and could take over assuming this ship is righted.

it's a complicated situation unless dino is done and there isn't an extension talk. he isn't the most open book so it wouldn't surprise if he walked away too (he'll get his 2024 money no matter what)

 

[cusefan88]

I'm sure Dino wants to be closer to his family in the West Coast at some point. Just a matter of when.

 

[djcon57]

You can accept that we won't be among the national powers in college football and also not accept the general boobery we've seen for the past however many years at the head coaching position.

I don't understand why people cant see the difference in the two.

If we were 6-6 and saw solid gameday decisions, played tough games, and were just outmanned, I think most would accept that...assuming that one year out of 5-6 we broke through, got some luck, and had a 9-10 win season