“They’re the best defensive team we’ve played,’’ said Tennessee coach Rick Barnes

[Orangezoo]

kyle is good but carey did have his career high against him...and if he had hit that last secodn shot last night, think about how differently everything would feel right now. one shot. and bidunga outplayed him. and iowa states front court ate this team alive.

if the perimeter players for tennessee had a pulse, it wouldve been bad last night. tenn owned the paint (although kyle did have a bunch of nice plays)...gonna be ugly if this team needs suaore to step up and play at this level as the main center. if kyle gets in foul trouble against anyone decent, its curtains.

as i predicted in the offseason, this center corps is too small. not enough depth, either.

We’ve played multiple top 15 teams and not once has the center position been a weakness. Yet you continue to die on this hill. It’s not an issue , hasn’t been an issue and will be even less of an issue when Donnie returns. Sheesh.

If we don’t finish out the season well given the big win last night has positioned us to be able to do so the center position won’t be the reason. Take that to the bank.

 

[SU94]

I know some people that have dealt with him. A real class guy.

I think Barnes is a really good coach. Has some parallels to JAB's initial 10-15 years in office, but Barnes has not yet ditched the "cannot win the big one" stigma. Fair or not, that his reality. Really good coach, and that is the truth.

 

[SU94]

Yup. Was quoting Waters. Should have known better.

A find it mind-blowing that every now and again, posters on here take shots at Mike Waters. Imagine being that pompous...

Mike Waters has covered the Syracuse University basketball program for the past 37 years. His work has earned awards from the Associated Press Sports Editors and the U.S. Basketball Writers' Association. In 2021, he was presented with the USBWA's Jim O'Connell Award for beat writing excellence. He was inducted into the USBWA Hall of Fame in 2022. In 2023, he worked as writer and lead reporter for "Will to Win'' an award-winning documentary on the 20th anniversary of Syracuse's 2003 NCAA championship team. He has written four books on SU basketball's history.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Carey committed about 15 offensive fouls last night, of which 1 was called.

That contributed to the night he had.

Wouldn't have mattered how "tall" the defender was, when he's allowed to blast people out of the post like Shaq.

15? no way...1 or 2...he used his weight effectively and is a big body player...brown had a few dirty plays but I have no problem with how carey played...thats basketball. or at least it should be, imo

youre way underselling careys performance. he played great. manhandled the cuse

 

[CardiacCuse]

We’ve played multiple top 15 teams and not once has the center position been a weakness. Yet you continue to die on this hill. It’s not an issue , hasn’t been an issue and will be even less of an issue when Donnie returns. Sheesh.

If we don’t finish out the season well given the big win last night has positioned us to be able to do so the center position won’t be the reason. Take that to the bank.

tenn center had his CAREER HIGH. iowa state;s frotncourt scored over 50 points. kansas outrebounded Su 49-29!

kyle has held his own but lets not pretend that tenn center didnt outplay kyle. or that Iowa state and kansas frotncourts didnt demolish this team.

"when donnie returns" ok...hopefully it happens.

 

[Niastri]

Carey committed about 15 offensive fouls last night, of which 1 was called.

That contributed to the night he had.

Wouldn't have mattered how "tall" the defender was, when he's allowed to blast people out of the post like Shaq.

I agree, it makes for ugly basketball... But I imagine every musclebound big man we play against in the ACC is going to get the same leeway to push Kyle out of the way.

 

[Marsh01]

In my opinion that Iowa State game and a lot of Kansas was them being emotionally spent after dropping that game to Houston and then they were just defeated before the showed up to play Iowa state. Just my humble $.02. If they pulled out that Houston game, I believe they beat Kansas, too. But that's all woulda coulda shoulda.

I think they're somewhere in between the combination of Houston, Kansas, Tennessee games... which is a particularly good team.

I basically put no weight into the iowa state game whatsoever. We got boned big time playing them in the first place. They said last night that we had the hardest 4 game stretch in the country so far.

Houston was winnable for sure. Kansas was right there as well. Iowa state we had zero left in the second half. Which is why last nights game was pretty impressive. This team could have completely mailed it in and they played pretty damn hard

 

[baggerbob]

I was all for firing him last year.
The defense was horrible, his rotations were terrible and we all know what the offense was.
And his dealings with the press were beyond awful.

I will be woman enough to admit that I was wrong.
He has done a wonderful job with this defense and it is obvious these kids love playing for him.
The effort and skill they showed against Houston was extremely good and I was so proud of them.
The offense will improve once Freeman is back and I have faith that George's offense will improve.


However, someone has to work with Kyle on his foul shooting. It is obvious no one at any point of his playing career has ever worked with him on his foul shooting stroke.
It is bizarre to say the least.
But it is obvious from the TV closeups that he is using full concentration and trying so hard to get those shots to fall. Someone has to teach him a better foul shot stroke as this kid could literally live off the foul line in the ACC part of the schedule.
There has to be some alum around who was a good free throw shooter who would be willing to mentor this kid. If he could become a 70 to 75% foul shooter, it would immensely improve our chances of winning.

Call Rick Barry, and have him teach Kyle to shoot underhanded. Rick was one of the best ever shooting that way in the NBA.

 

[Orangezoo]

tenn center had his CAREER HIGH. iowa state;s frotncourt scored over 50 points. kansas outrebounded Su 49-29!

kyle has held his own but lets not pretend that tenn center didnt outplay kyle. or that Iowa state and kansas frotncourts didnt demolish this team.

"when donnie returns" ok...hopefully it happens.

We missed 43 shots vs Kansas. The rebounding disparity was driven by that number significantly.

The Tenn backup PF got away with a ton inside but outplay? That’s a big stretch and cherry picking. Iowa State was game 3 of the hardest stretch of games anyone has faced this year and not to mention not a big front court at all by your own standards….

Saying he has held his own is the most laughable ridiculous undersell I’ve seen in a while and all to try and sell your proclamation. Absurd and it’s wrong.

We lost the first two games due to foul shooting and shooting in general. Not center play. Game 3 was one bad half where the team was spent. Then we beat Tennessee. Again you are so desperate to be right it’s getting comical. Step off that island.. it’s drifting man.

 

[Orange Barrel]

A find it mind-blowing that every now and again, posters on here take shots at Mike Waters. Imagine being that pompous...

Mike Waters has covered the Syracuse University basketball program for the past 37 years. His work has earned awards from the Associated Press Sports Editors and the U.S. Basketball Writers' Association. In 2021, he was presented with the USBWA's Jim O'Connell Award for beat writing excellence. He was inducted into the USBWA Hall of Fame in 2022. In 2023, he worked as writer and lead reporter for "Will to Win'' an award-winning documentary on the 20th anniversary of Syracuse's 2003 NCAA championship team. He has written four books on SU basketball's history.

Imagine being so fragile that this bothers you. You like Mike. Good for you. You should. His quote was not accurate. He published an article last week stating we lost to Monmouth. That wasn't accurate either and I emailed him and pointed it out. We had a good laugh over it. Get over yourself. You don't know what you're talking about. And yes I know he reads this board.

 

[tbonezone]

both teams had a crazy number of turnovers. combined asst/to margin was 22/33 .

 

[CardiacCuse]

We missed 43 shots vs Kansas. The rebounding disparity was driven by that number significantly.

The Tenn backup PF got away with a ton inside but outplay? That’s a big stretch and cherry picking. Iowa State was game 3 of the hardest stretch of games anyone has faced this year and not to mention not a big front court at all by your own standards….

Saying he has held his own is the most laughable ridiculous undersell I’ve seen in a while and all to try and sell your proclamation. Absurd and it’s wrong.

We lost the first two games due to foul shooting and shooting in general. Not center play. Game 3 was one bad half where the team was spent. Then we beat Tennessee. Again you are so desperate to be right it’s getting comical. Step off that island.. it’s drifting man.

carey had 22 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes FFS

he was UNSTOPPABLE (why barnes only played him 23 mins is beyond me)

just bc SU survived with the W doesnt somehow make that go away

 

[SU94]

Imagine being so fragile that this bothers you. You like Mike. Good for you. You should. His quote was not accurate. He published an article last week stating we lost to Monmouth. That wasn't accurate either and I emailed him and pointed it out. We had a good laugh over it. Get over yourself. You don't know what you're talking about. And yes I know he reads this board.

Sounds like Mike took your scolding better than you took mine. Advantage, Mike.

Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel, Barrel.

 

[RF2044]

15? no way...1 or 2...he used his weight effectively and is a big body player...brown had a few dirty plays but I have no problem with how carey played...thats basketball. or at least it should be, imo

youre way underselling careys performance. he played great. manhandled the cuse

I'm not the one underselling. He got away with murder out there.

You're the one underselling Kyle's performance. He had 10 / 7, blocked six shots, and hit the go ahead free throws at the end.

He is not a focal point of our offense, or he might score more. But that isn't his role. Anyone who watches this team recognizes his value, and how important he is. You're riding an agenda that you've expressed from the beginning, underselling Kyle.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I'm not the one underselling. He got away with murder out there.

You're the one underselling Kyle's performance. He had 10 / 7, blocked six shots, and hit the go ahead free throws at the end.

He is not a focal point of our offense, or he might score more. But that isn't his role. Anyone who watches this team recognizes his value, and how important he is. You're riding an agenda that you've expressed from the beginning, underselling Kyle.

we have to agree to disagree then. I think Kyle has been way better than I thought he would and held his own pretty well. but its not like he is shutting down the paint or anything. yeah he gets a lot of blocks and highflying dunks but he also gives up a lot of dunks and layups etc

i actually like kyle and think he is very likable and easy to root for. he plays very smart (given his skillset) and competes with the best of them. im not attacking him.

for me, yeah I am fine with him as a center. despite all of his limitations.

but just because I do like him as a player doesnt mean I am blind to his deficiencies (and there are several)

beyond that when you look at the 3 centers on the roster as a whole...its a group that is seriously lacking...the 2nd and 3rd string might as well be walkons basically. as if that isnt an issue???

i never really had a problem with kyle being 1 of the centers...it was more him being the only legit option.

importantly, given all of that, I dont think the team;s interior defense is good enough (in large part due to a lack of size, an opinion I stand by) and will cost the team games in the future. even though kyle is prettty good and better than I anticipated, I predict future top tier opponents (really the only opponents I care about) will game plan how to take advantage of SUs weak interior and do so effectively.

 

[bballbeadle]

We all knew the number 1 defensive ranking from a few weeks ago after pounding our early cupcake schedule was a red herring.

However, even after our losing streak, we are top35 defensively in important categories like FG%, 2pt%, 3pt, 3pt Attempts, and points allowed. And the good points allowed ranking isn't based on pace, where we strangle opponents possessions and thus wind up with low scoring games. We're playing a little bit slow, but are still getting 71 possessions per game, ranking 208 out of 365 (so kind of average pace).

One thing I noticed about our defense only after looking at the stats is that we seem to be doing a great job of limiting three point attempts and percentage at a high rate. We give up only 18.8 attempts per game, and allow a .307 percent makes, which rank 30th and 114th respectively. On the other hand, we are forcing opponents to take 39.4 two point shots per game, which is the 58th most two point shots. Opponents are only making .419 of their twos... Good for 13th in the country. We are blocking 6 shots per game as well, which also is 13th in the country.

Our defense is legitimately really good, and you can see the beginnings of a solid defensive strategy in place. Forcing opponents to take two point shots because of strong hedging at the three point line and then forcing opponents to take contested two point shots with top shot blockers challenging is an enduring defensive strategy, if you have the talent to contest those two point shots effectively.

My only concern is we give up way too many offensive rebounds at 12.9 per game. Some of that is a result of our best rebounders also trying to block the shot, so they aren't in position to rebound a lot of the time. It is a trade off that JB made for decades, and we did ok with it.

It seems to be working now as well, with even our four games against top teams, we have only given up one 40 point half, and that was the huge letdown game against Iowa State, so I'm inclined to call that an outlier, and accept the greater trend as the truth.

Niastri, you are really stepping up with your analyses and posts! I really appreciate you.

 

[bballbeadle]

I worked very hard in Vegas to set the wheels in motion for this. I worked both sides. The person who needs to come in, and the staff. The short answer is they can only work on the mental aspect. The mechanics can't be easily fixed in a short time. But the former player is willing to do what can be done with all of the players, and we shall see if it happens.

Why can they only work on the mental aspect, pray?

 

[llandz]

Why can they only work on the mental aspect, pray?

That is what I was told by a number of knowledgeable people. The reason is it takes a year or two to relearn free throwing form. They have tried for a couple of years with JJ. The people I spoke to are experts. So I have to trust them.

 

[GHLF]

Seriousl

1. He’s getting paid a lot of money to do this job.

2. You can turn over a roster in a year.

3. He had our worst season since the Lyndon Johnson administration.

4. I’m surrounded by lingerie models as I type this

Seriously deranged creeper, so sorry

 

[grepal]

Rick Barnes said this was the best defensive SYRACUSE team over the last few years. Anyway, defense was previously awful under Autry, and this year it’s much better. Kudus to Autry. Anyone who makes observations about poor play here is just reporting what their eyes show them, and wish and hope it would be better and Autry would be better. All here rooting for the same program and team.

Unfortunately, some posters here are rooting for failure. I wish it was not true but some here are over the top in their criticism.

 

[Orangezoo]

carey had 22 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes FFS

he was UNSTOPPABLE (why barnes only played him 23 mins is beyond me)

just bc SU survived with the W doesnt somehow make that go away

He scored 4 legit points on Kyle in the first half out of 10. The 6th point was on an offensive foul that wasn’t called. On defense he consistently was a non factor and outside of several mostly uncontested rebounds where he crashed late he had zero impact. He offered pretty much zero resistance on that end. Kyle stuffed him 3x when he defended him. You should pay attention to what’s actually happening and the tape not just the box score.

Kyle shut down and gave fits to the entire Tenn front court and was a problem on both ends unlike Carey who basically was just a source of offense. Not only that but Carey was not defended the whole time by Kyle since Kyle was defending Okpara often along with playing great help defense. Carey’s impact was not what you think it was if you pay attention vs read a box score. Your take is lazy and naive. Re watch the game and pay attention to what Kyle does on both ends and what Carey does. One guy impacted the game on both ends the other was borderline a liability on one end( Carey). Not to mention Carey often couldn’t get back in time. At the absolute most half of Carey’s points came against Kyle and at least two of those were on an offensive foul. Kyle hands down won that battle. Even then Carey was guarded by other players , Betsey and Sadiq included not just Kyle. Had Carey been called for the several blatant offensive and loose ball fouls in the post he would have spent more time on the bench to boot.

I suggest you rewatch the game and pay more attention instead of making such assertions. Kyle has been a force in every game he played and his height and weight haven’t been an issue in one single game absent the overall team fatigue in the second half vs Iowa State, a team with a smaller front court by your own standards.

 

[RedtheGOB]

He scored 4 legit points on Kyle in the first half out of 10. The 6th point was on an offensive foul that wasn’t called. On defense he consistently was a non factor and outside of several mostly uncontested rebounds where he crashed late he had zero impact. He offered pretty much zero resistance on that end. Kyle stuffed him 3x when he defended him. You should pay attention to what’s actually happening and the tape not just the box score.

Kyle shut down and gave fits to the entire Tenn front court and was a problem on both ends unlike Carey who basically was just a source of offense. Not only that but Carey was not defended the whole time by Kyle since Kyle was defending Okpara often along with playing great help defense. Carey’s impact was not what you think it was if you pay attention vs read a box score. Your take is lazy and naive. Re watch the game and pay attention to what Kyle does on both ends and what Carey does. One guy impacted the game on both ends the other was borderline a liability on one end( Carey). Not to mention Carey often couldn’t get back in time. At the absolute most half of Carey’s points came against Kyle and at least two of those were on an offensive foul. Kyle hands down won that battle. Even then Carey was guarded by other players , Betsey and Sadiq included not just Kyle. Had Carey been called for the several blatant offensive and loose ball fouls in the post he would have spent more time on the bench to boot.

I suggest you rewatch the game and pay more attention instead of making such assertions. Kyle has been a force in every game he played and his height and weight haven’t been an issue in one single game absent the overall team fatigue in the second half vs Iowa State, a team with a smaller front court by your own standards.

Thank you. Cardiac has been dropping poor takes all over today. Carey came off the bench and is 6’8 for what it’s worth.

 

[Orange Barrel]

Sounds like Mike took your scolding better than you took mine. Advantage, Mike.

Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel, Barrel.

I picked a fight? Ok.

 

[Nicknack]

kyle is good but carey did have his career high against him...and if he had hit that last secodn shot last night, think about how differently everything would feel right now. one shot. and bidunga outplayed him. and iowa states front court ate this team alive.

if the perimeter players for tennessee had a pulse, it wouldve been bad last night. tenn owned the paint (although kyle did have a bunch of nice plays)...gonna be ugly if this team needs suaore to step up and play at this level as the main center. if kyle gets in foul trouble against anyone decent, its curtains.

as i predicted in the offseason, this center corps is too small. not enough depth, either.

Kyle played very well last night. He took a couple charges, swatted away shots, made some key baskets, and didn't back down to Carey (until Carey would just pound him back with his body). At least a couple should have been called, at least one was. I absolutely LOVE Kyle's athleticism, fight, and raw talent.

 

[skeeter223]

carey had 22 points and 9 rebounds in 23 minutes FFS

he was UNSTOPPABLE (why barnes only played him 23 mins is beyond me)

just bc SU survived with the W doesnt somehow make that go away

He was lowering his head and pushing into the defender with his shoulder every time he was preparing to shoot. Clearly, that's an offensive foul , and it was called just once.