“They’re the best defensive team we’ve played,’’ said Tennessee coach Rick Barnes

[orangepassion]

I miss this lol

Was thinking about this during the second half when they said that Duke was shooting 90% from the field in the second half. What happened to that defensive intensity?

 

[CardiacCuse]

Was thinking about this during the second half when they said that Duke was shooting 90% from the field in the second half. What happened to that defensive intensity?

Su scored 64 points for the game vs Duke

Duke scored 61 points in the second half

 

[CuseFan]

We could not stop anyone on Duke, even their second string. Intensity has disappeared.

 

[Jasoncuse]

the in-season regression of this defense is astonishing

Is it though?
Defense has been an issue under Autry since he took over (and well before to be fair), we are vastly undersized and aren't particularly quick on the perimeter. And of course, AA doesn't demand the intensity, focus or committment to consistently playing tough D.

 

[Orangezoo]

the in-season regression of this defense is astonishing

After the Hofstra loss it seemed to completely fall off a cliff.

 

[Ghost]

Was thinking about this during the second half when they said that Duke was shooting 90% from the field in the second half. What happened to that defensive intensity?

I feel like we saw it for like 2 or 3 minutes to open the game. They usually can't keep up the intensity that long though. I was proud of them.

So much Level 5 effort early in the year probably burned us out.

 

[LpoolNative]

Su scored 64 points for the game vs Duke

Duke scored 61 points in the second half

We out scored them is what you’re saying

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Is it possible that just the simplest answer is the the most valid?

We started the year with good intentions, with high motivation, with potential, with a focus on the defense. Guys were making plays in preseason insta video clips and we believed. We had enough athleticism that we could accomplish some things defensively, and we showed that in those early games.

And then subsequent coaches actually looked at the tape. And saw that most of our guys could be exploited. They saw how, and they coached their kids up to beat us individually and within their team game.

And we found out we don’t have the fundamentals, quickness, strength, or schemes to counter and deal with just that simple scouting.

The intensity and belief gradually eroded and now we are a shell of what we were to begin the year.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Is it possible that just the simplest answer is the the most valid?

We started the year with good intentions, with high motivation, with potential, with a focus on the defense. Guys were making plays in preseason insta video clips and we believed. We had enough athleticism that we could accomplish some things defensively, and we showed that in those early games.

And then subsequent coaches actually looked at the tape. And saw that most of our guys could be exploited. They saw how, and they coached their kids up to beat us individually and within their team game.

And we found out we don’t have the fundamentals, quickness, strength, or schemes to counter and deal with just that simple scouting.

The intensity and belief gradually eroded and now we are a shell of what we were to begin the year.

Think it's a combination of that and the kids just not caring as much once their preseason aspirations fell by the wayside.

 

[General20]

Think it's a combination of that and the kids just not caring as much once their preseason aspirations fell by the wayside.

Also college basketball teams are very much works in progress. Offense in general is not as polished at the beginning of the year as it is at the end of the year. Being tall and athletic will get you farther early. To keep the results up you need to keep improving, which hasn't happened.

 

[Forloveoforange]

Is it possible that just the simplest answer is the the most valid?

We started the year with good intentions, with high motivation, with potential, with a focus on the defense. Guys were making plays in preseason insta video clips and we believed. We had enough athleticism that we could accomplish some things defensively, and we showed that in those early games.

And then subsequent coaches actually looked at the tape. And saw that most of our guys could be exploited. They saw how, and they coached their kids up to beat us individually and within their team game.

And we found out we don’t have the fundamentals, quickness, strength, or schemes to counter and deal with just that simple scouting.

The intensity and belief gradually eroded and now we are a shell of what we were to begin the year.

I assume this goes for 25 and O start, too. Still not over that one, and the confusion of why...

Maybe there is a theme of lack of adjustments and improvements.

 

[capeorange]

the in-season regression of this defense is astonishing

Donnie was still out then. Coincidence?

 

[Blanko97]

I assume this goes for 25 and O start, too. Still not over that one, and the confusion of why...

Maybe there is a theme of lack of adjustments and improvements.

I think 25-0 start was sort of similar but in reverse. You could see the holes around the Pittsburgh game as teams figured out that they could pack the paint and make it hard for us to operate on offense. Defense we were actually pretty consistent if i recall correctly.

 

[RF2044]

Also college basketball teams are very much works in progress. Offense in general is not as polished at the beginning of the year as it is at the end of the year. Being tall and athletic will get you farther early. To keep the results up you need to keep improving, which hasn't happened.

Agreed.

I can't even remember the last time we had a team improve significantly over the course of a season. Been a long time.

 

[Fly Rodder]

That was the best defensive game SU has played all season. Rick was probably right, but it was more a one-off game for SU than anything sustainable. The Tennesee game is the green dot that is no where near the season long trendline.

 

[Marty McFly]

I agree that this team or any in recent memory has failed to improve through out the season. That said, we go from playing great D (with intensity and hustle) vs. Tennessee to the polar opposite vs Hofstra. As fans we say "flush" it, it's a one off game, blah blah. However the Hofstra level of effort on D then somehow became the baseline. It was like a light switch, I don't think Hofstra, BC, or the plethora of pitiful losses we have (aside from Duke, UNC) have been because of some great scheme to expose our players.

Sometimes offense isn't there, but D is always about hustle and intensity. It was never more apparent then in the Duke Game, where Duke brought it, no matter the score, and no matter who's in the game. Granted they don't bring the same level of intensity every game, but their baseline, is on another stratosphere. Our guys know what great D takes, and what the results of their efforts can be... it's wasn't a slow decline, it was a precipitous drop off a cliff for no apparent reason. For me, that's what is really frustrating watching the team this year.

 

[Niastri]

We all knew the number 1 defensive ranking from a few weeks ago after pounding our early cupcake schedule was a red herring.

However, even after our losing streak, we are top35 defensively in important categories like FG%, 2pt%, 3pt, 3pt Attempts, and points allowed. And the good points allowed ranking isn't based on pace, where we strangle opponents possessions and thus wind up with low scoring games. We're playing a little bit slow, but are still getting 71 possessions per game, ranking 208 out of 365 (so kind of average pace).

One thing I noticed about our defense only after looking at the stats is that we seem to be doing a great job of limiting three point attempts and percentage at a high rate. We give up only 18.8 attempts per game, and allow a .307 percent makes, which rank 30th and 114th respectively. On the other hand, we are forcing opponents to take 39.4 two point shots per game, which is the 58th most two point shots. Opponents are only making .419 of their twos... Good for 13th in the country. We are blocking 6 shots per game as well, which also is 13th in the country.

Our defense is legitimately really good, and you can see the beginnings of a solid defensive strategy in place. Forcing opponents to take two point shots because of strong hedging at the three point line and then forcing opponents to take contested two point shots with top shot blockers challenging is an enduring defensive strategy, if you have the talent to contest those two point shots effectively.

My only concern is we give up way too many offensive rebounds at 12.9 per game. Some of that is a result of our best rebounders also trying to block the shot, so they aren't in position to rebound a lot of the time. It is a trade off that JB made for decades, and we did ok with it.

It seems to be working now as well, with even our four games against top teams, we have only given up one 40 point half, and that was the huge letdown game against Iowa State, so I'm inclined to call that an outlier, and accept the greater trend as the truth.

Somebody liked this post from a few months ago, I wound up, rereading my old post, and it really struck me.

The bolded part about hedging off of picks has disappeared. The extreme, kind of over the top hedging we were doing early in the season is gone completely. We're barely hedging at all anymore. And the result seems to be that we're giving up more open threes and more layups.

It really is kind of a worst of both worlds situation.

 

[capeorange]

Somebody liked this post from a few months ago, I wound up, rereading my old post, and it really struck me.

The bolded part about hedging off of picks has disappeared. The extreme, kind of over the top hedging we were doing early in the season is gone completely. We're barely hedging at all anymore. And the result seems to be that we're giving up more open threes and more layups.

It really is kind of a worst of both worlds situation.

We played good defense while Donnie was out.

 

[Niastri]

We played good defense while Donnie was out.

You think Freeman returning from an injury is what caused Sadiq White to wave his hands in the air rather than hedging at guards coming off screens instead of riding them 20 feet to the other side of the court like he did two months ago?

It's an actual question, I'm curious how you could come to that conclusion.

 

[capeorange]

You think Freeman returning from an injury is what caused Sadiq White to wave his hands in the air rather than hedging at guards coming off screens instead of riding them 20 feet to the other side of the court like he did two months ago?

It's an actual question, I'm curious how you could come to that conclusion.

Not a conclusion, just an observation.
Could be chemistry, could be when Sadiq played with the starters he was more comfortable. Maybe they all checked out. I really don't know but we haven't seen the tough defense since Donnie returned. Maybe they felt they had to pick it up when Donnie was out and let down when he came back.