105 Wins & 73 Losses

[ethoo18]

We have a program that still sells 24,000 tickets to its games. That program props up the entire athletic department. I will be very disappointed if we don't get a guy who can win right out of the gate here.

Agree. I don’t really know who comes here and it depends on how the program fares the next 3 years. My first choice would be Hop (obviously) but not just because he was here for so long, it’s because I hear constantly of the great relationships he could forge with players and his recruiting prowess. Next question is, depending on the next 3 seasons will we be able to land a Chris Mack/Tony Bennett/Jay Wright type of coach? Or a.. Should I say Nate Oats type of coach

 

[IthacaMatt]

solid posts.
also a friendly reminder to everyone that in our last three games v top 5 teams, which all happened in the past two weeks, we were up at half. we cant be all that bad.

We are currently the best "First Half Team" in America!

 

[Alsacs]

Alsacs, where does this notion that JAB and staff are lacking in player development come from?
It is utter nonsense. Let's think about it ...

• Battle: Much improved/well rounded. Has learned how to play a little point. Strong development.
• Howard: Cannot ignore the context of injury this year. It's a bummer to watch. That said, Frank was VITAL to last year's successes. He was a top 5 PG in the ACC in 2017-18. Was he anywhere near that as a frosh or sophomore? No. Good development.
• Buddy: Small sample, only one season to analyze, but he went from dismal in Nov and Dec to a vital cog at present. He's broken out of his basketball shell. Solid development.
• Hughes: Averaged about 7.8 PPG for ECU int eh American two years ago. Now averaging nearly 14 PPG in the ACC. Had a year to bone up on the system and fine tune his game under the watchful eye of SU staff. Strong development.
• Dolezaj: If you cannot see how he's improved the last 16 months, I cannot help you. Strong development.
• Brisset: I think he is essentially the same as last year, other than he's dropped about 12-14% on his FT percentage. Also not getting to the line like he did last year. I've been more encouraged the last 6-8 games (Monday/UVa nonwithstandng). Less jump shooting, more driving. He's a 4-year player who got more run out these past 2 years out of necessity (sanctions!). Slight downturn.
• Chukwu: His rise has been gradual in nature, but he is definitively a better player now than he was 2-3 years ago. Still inconsistent, but improving in this area too. Solid development.
• Sidibe: Incomplete due to lack of playing time/injury.
• Carey: Incomplete due to lack of playing time.
• Washington: Incomplete due to lack of playing time/injury

So, by my count: 3 strong developments, 1 good development, 2 solid development, 1 slight downturn, 3 incomplete.

Paging Cusefan0307
Please take this one.

 

[SUFan44]

Alsacs, where does this notion that JAB and staff are lacking in player development come from?
It is utter nonsense. Let's think about it ...

• Battle: Much improved/well rounded. Has learned how to play a little point. Strong development.
• Howard: Cannot ignore the context of injury this year. It's a bummer to watch. That said, Frank was VITAL to last year's successes. He was a top 5 PG in the ACC in 2017-18. Was he anywhere near that as a frosh or sophomore? No. Good development.
• Buddy: Small sample, only one season to analyze, but he went from dismal in Nov and Dec to a vital cog at present. He's broken out of his basketball shell. Solid development.
• Hughes: Averaged about 7.8 PPG for ECU int eh American two years ago. Now averaging nearly 14 PPG in the ACC. Had a year to bone up on the system and fine tune his game under the watchful eye of SU staff. Strong development.
• Dolezaj: If you cannot see how he's improved the last 16 months, I cannot help you. Strong development.
• Brisset: I think he is essentially the same as last year, other than he's dropped about 12-14% on his FT percentage. Also not getting to the line like he did last year. I've been more encouraged the last 6-8 games (Monday/UVa nonwithstandng). Less jump shooting, more driving. He's a 4-year player who got more run out these past 2 years out of necessity (sanctions!). Slight downturn.
• Chukwu: His rise has been gradual in nature, but he is definitively a better player now than he was 2-3 years ago. Still inconsistent, but improving in this area too. Solid development.
• Sidibe: Incomplete due to lack of playing time/injury.
• Carey: Incomplete due to lack of playing time.
• Washington: Incomplete due to lack of playing time/injury

So, by my count: 3 strong developments, 1 good development, 2 solid development, 1 slight downturn, 3 incomplete.

You are grading on a VERY heavy curve.

Howard has regressed since last year. Injury or not. And I would argue that numbers wise, Howard obviously improved -- because he played more and played 40 minutes a game. His percentages were about the same as they were the year prior. That doesn't mean the player has improved.

Hughes has been playing for the program one year. How do you know he has improved? Same with Buddy. Hughes didn't play 35 mpg at ECU -- he also wasn't healthy. Now he's healthy and playing. Of course his numbers will be better.

Brissett is a BIG downturn. Not slight, big. He can't shoot anymore. He has improved in finishing layups that are contested but still doesn't make good decisions with the basketball. Not slight downturn, especially compared to the promise he showed last year.

Chukwu is better than last year when he plays hard and I believe is rounding into a decent center. But he still has no post game, still gets pushed around too much and is still way too inconsistent. I'm really not sure how you'd call that solid development.

Additionally, if you want to say Carey is incomplete due to playing time then you need to take Hughes out of the mix too because you can't judge him based on one year in the program and his stats at ECU. You can only judge him on what he's done at SU.

Overall -- look at the career arcs of some of the prior players. Scoop Jardine, Kris Joseph, Andy Rautins. Those players improved greatly over their four years.

 

[gilardino]

Wait did the OP listen to Gilardino?

The guy that has been wrong about 75 percent of his predictions?

whoa, lol, yes I am wrong more often than not, however all I did was give him the record since the 25-0 start

 

[Day2]

This is kind of a dick comment.

You're not wrong, but I felt like it needed to be said. I could have - and probably should have - made a broader statement, because I don't think any of us should take losses that personally, no matter where we are. The only time I hear from friends and family about our games is when we beat Duke.

 

[Alsacs]

You are grading on a VERY heavy curve.

Howard has regressed since last year. Injury or not. And I would argue that numbers wise, Howard obviously improved -- because he played more and played 40 minutes a game. His percentages were about the same as they were the year prior. That doesn't mean the player has improved.

Hughes has been in the program one year. How do you know he has improved?

Brissett is a BIG downturn. Not slight, big. He can't shoot anymore. He has improved in finishing layups that are contested but still doesn't make good decisions with the basketball. Not slight downturn, especially compared to the promise he showed last year.

Chukwu is better than last year when he plays hard and I believe is rounding into a decent center. But he still has no post game, still gets pushed around too much and is still way too inconsistent. I'm really not sure how you'd call that solid development.

Additionally, if you want to say Carey is incomplete due to playing time then you need to take Hughes out of the mix too because you can't judge him based on one year in the program and his stats at ECU. You can only judge him on what he's done at SU.

Overall -- look at the career arcs of some of the prior players. Scoop Jardine, Kris Joseph, Andy Rautins. Those players improved greatly over their four years.

Player Development has been poor but I am passing on this one because I elicist reactions from posters.
I don’t think Chukwu or Sidibe have gotten better.
Brissett has regressed.
Howard got hurt.
Battle hasn’t improved that much he has just gotten the usage up from his freshman year.
Dolezaj has gotten better slightly but it’s not that noticeable.

The development has not been good.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Agree. I don’t really know who comes here and it depends on how the program fares the next 3 years. My first choice would be Hop (obviously) but not just because he was here for so long, it’s because I hear constantly of the great relationships he could forge with players and his recruiting prowess. Next question is, depending on the next 3 seasons will we be able to land a Chris Mack/Tony Bennett/Jay Wright type of coach? Or a.. Should I say Nate Oats type of coach

With the year Hop is currently having, the recruiting class he already has for next year, and the kids he is after for the following year, he is building up something special. He can crush it in the PAC-12 and have that job forever.

We need a new Hop - a great recruiter, younger guy who can relate to kids, and who knows what it takes to run a program (no newbies need apply).

 

[Alsacs]

We had a team of
Michael Carter-Williams
Brandon Triche
CJ Fair
James Southerland
Rak Christmas/Baye Keita
That struggled to score 60 points against Michigan in the Final Four and couldn’t score 60 against Marquette in the NCAAT.
That team had talent and couldn’t score.
Our offensive philosophy sucks and it cost this team a chance for a title. As the D was outstanding.

 

[OttoMets]

Player Development has been poor but I am passing on this one because I elicist reactions from posters.
I don’t think Chukwu or Sidibe have gotten better.
Brissett has regressed.
Howard got hurt.
Battle hasn’t improved that much he has just gotten the usage up from his freshman year.
Dolezaj has gotten better slightly but it’s not that noticeable.

The development has not been good.

I think the incremental ways in which Battle has improved -- better distributor -- might be offset by some other changes, like the fact that as a freshman he was a fluid jump-shooter but in three years here has developed a crazy hitch and seen his percentages plummet.

 

[Fly Rodder]

If a coach takes below average players and turns them into average or slightly below average, yeah, that's development, I guess. But I haven't really seen much.

The injury excuses are getting tiring though. Every team deals with injuries* to some extent and missed practice time.



* Except a stroke, that's pretty out there.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That's like saying "who wouldn't want Jamie Dixon?"
He's effective, but that's ugly basketball to watch.
Generally speaking, they do not hit almost 20 threes per game.
Usually, it's a rock fight in the 50s when you play against a Bennett team.
I don't think our fans will get that excited about that kind of ball.
Fans want us to run and gun again. We used to run like crazy out of the zone. What happened?

They are averaging 72 points a game this year shooting 41% from 3 and 48% overall. That's boring?

 

[IthacaMatt]

They are averaging 72 points a game this year shooting 41% from 3 and 48% overall. That's boring?

This is the best team he's ever had. I'm too lazy to go look it up, but I would bet their average offensive output in the past 6 years (or however long he has been coaching them ) is about 60-65 points a game, giving up around 55-60.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This is the best team he's ever had. I'm too lazy to go look it up, but I would bet their average offensive output in the past 6 years (or however long he has been coaching them ) is about 60-65 points a game, giving up around 55-60.

They’ve averaged above 65 each of the last 5 seasons and have never given up more than 60. They’ve also scored over 80 eight times this year.

 

[OttoMets]

They are averaging 72 points a game this year shooting 41% from 3 and 48% overall. That's boring?

54 shots per game, I think? That's an even slower pace than Syracuse (10 years ago that would've been a funny thing to type, now it's just sad).

It's technically sound, it's obviously successful, but it's not my preferred style of play.

 

[chugg21]

That's like saying "who wouldn't want Jamie Dixon?"
He's effective, but that's ugly basketball to watch.
Generally speaking, they do not hit almost 20 threes per game.
Usually, it's a rock fight in the 50s when you play against a Bennett team.
I don't think our fans will get that excited about that kind of ball.
Fans want us to run and gun again. We used to run like crazy out of the zone. What happened?

I think fans would prefer to win and be ranked in the top 15 every year by any means necessary. The rest is just style points.

 

[orangecuse]

You're not wrong, but I felt like it needed to be said. I could have - and probably should have - made a broader statement, because I don't think any of us should take losses that personally, no matter where we are. The only time I hear from friends and family about our games is when we beat Duke.

Lot's of "I's" in there. Here's something 'needed to be said' if not simply reminded, your opinion is just that, your opinion.

 

[SU94]

Player Development has been poor but I am passing on this one because I elicist reactions from posters.
I don’t think Chukwu or Sidibe have gotten better.
Brissett has regressed.
Howard got hurt.
Battle hasn’t improved that much he has just gotten the usage up from his freshman year.
Dolezaj has gotten better slightly but it’s not that noticeable.

The development has not been good.

Simply stated, I could not disagree more with your thoughts on Chukwu, Battle, Dolezaj and the overall player development.

Frank played 10 minutes per game as a frosh and made 2 three-pointers all season. Last year, in full health, Frank led the ACC in steals (2.0 spg.), was fifth in assists (5.2 apg.) and 13th in scoring (15.2 ppg.). He was a top-5 ACC point guard. That's obvious improvement, which has to at least partially be attributed to player development within the SU program.

Dolezaj's arch of contribution is clear and it's going to be fun to watch him play the next couple of years with some confidence.

Chukwu is suddenly very important. How big was his performance at Duke in January (10 poiints, 18 reb)? He's never been a force, but is a contributor this year. His points per minute, rebounds per minute and steals per minute are all improved this year. I wish this cat would come back next year.

 

[Orangefan1]

I think player development is an issue however I also feel like it is important that players like Braswell play more earlier in the year. It should be 50/50 playing time with Brissett. Howard unfortunately shouldn't start anymore. I feel our lineup should be Battle PG Hughes SG Marek SF Brissett SF C PC. Buddy should come in for Hughes and Howard for Battle.

 

[Alsacs]

Simply stated, I could not disagree more with your thoughts on Chukwu, Battle, Dolezaj and the overall player development.

Frank played 10 minutes per game as a frosh and made 2 three-pointers all season. Last year, in full health, Frank led the ACC in steals (2.0 spg.), was fifth in assists (5.2 apg.) and 13th in scoring (15.2 ppg.). He was a top-5 ACC point guard. That's obvious improvement, which has to at least partially be attributed to player development within the SU program.

Dolezaj's arch of contribution is clear and it's going to be fun to watch him play the next couple of years with some confidence.

Chukwu is suddenly very important. How big was his performance at Duke in January (10 poiints, 18 reb)? He's never been a force, but is a contributor this year. His points per minute, rebounds per minute and steals per minute are all improved this year. I wish this cat would come back next year.

Chukwu had a good game against Duke.
1 game doesn’t mean he has gotten better.
His stats in fact have gotten WORSE from last year.
Last year he scored 5.5 PPG and 6.8 RPG
This year Chukwu is 4.3 PPG and 5.5 RPG.
Anyone who wants to argue Chukwu has gotten better is just not looking at the court.
He isn’t an offensive threat and only had double digit rebounds 2 times.

Dolezaj doesn’t get enough minutes to show how better he has gotten. What type of post game has he developed? Dolezaj is our best passer. His playing time has been reduced because of Hughes. Sorry but if the guy is a lot better he should be getting more minutes.
Why are we assuming Dolezaj will even stay? And won’t go back to Europe? It’s all speculation with him.

Frank Howard was given minutes last year because we literally had no other options. He was solid but he has regressed this year. Injury slowed him early but if you want to credit player development for last year then this year they failed.

 

[Day2]

Lot's of "I's" in there. Here's something 'needed to be said' if not simply reminded, your opinion is just that, your opinion.

 

[orangecuse]

But do you think SU lost any of those recruits (I've heard it speculated that that was the case with Huerter) because of sanctions?

Obviously sanctions didn't help. But it's kind of a nebulous reason that I've seen thrown around without a lot of hard evidence. What got the ball rolling on the program's decline? This is an interesting topic for discussion.

I'm of the opinion that 25-0 was, as someone else put it, the inflection point; the situation was enormously aggravated by three departures on both sides of that downturn: Carter-Williams (who coaches thought was a three-year player in summer 2012) the season before, and Grant and Ennis a couple months after. That wrecked the foundation of the program and created a vicious cycle of kids getting minutes too early and either burning out (Joseph) or getting featured to a degree that spun them up the ladder sooner than expected (Richardson).

I could see sanctions being an aggravating factor here: with early departures, Boeheim needed to replenish but couldn't. But I never got the sense that it was the sanctions that were the obstacle - SU missed on top-end recruits and some of the more middling players on the team didn't develop or were run off. In a sanctions-free alternate reality, how would recruiting have shaken out in 2015 and onward?

I find this to be an excellent post. And, in regards to the highlighted, good luck getting a transparent answer to that fair question. Naturally, 3 lost schollies/year had an affect, but truly to what extent? Seemingly, it's convenient to say sanctions costed us dearly or a crushing blow in recruiting, but I also haven't seen (other than the aforementioned Huerter) who we specifically lost solely because of the sanctions. Even Huerter can be argued that if we wanted him bad enough, we could've given that one last scholly we had left that year to him. But, we got the commitment from Battle, and Huerter was a similar type position player, so we held out our remaining scholarship for a different position player/recruit, whom we ultimately didn't land either. I can't recall who it was at the moment without delving back into the archives. That being the case though, is why we attempted to persuade Huerter to prep for a year, which he basically laughed off and shortly afterwards committed to Maryland.

As Jay Bilas said after the sanctions hit, since Syracuse typically only plays approximately 7 guys, the 3 lost scholarships, albeit nothing to sneeze at, wouldn't be a significant detriment to the Orange as far as their on court performance went. He mentioned, however, it may affect the practices because of the reductions. Alsacs has also mentioned even in these sanctions years, we still had scholarships available to give. That being the case, I am really curious who we lost solely because of the sanctions, versus those recruits simply not being interested or ultimately choosing other schools they simply liked better.

 

[Alsacs]

I find this to be an excellent post. And, in regards to the highlighted, good luck getting a transparent answer to that fair question. Naturally, 3 lost schollies/year had an affect, but truly to what extent? Seemingly, it's convenient to say sanctions costed us dearly or a crushing blow in recruiting, but I also haven't seen (other than the aforementioned Huerter) who we specifically lost solely because of the sanctions. Even Huerter can be argued that if we wanted him bad enough, we could have had that one scholly we had left that year to give him. But, we got the commitment from Battle, and Huerter was a similar type position player, so we held out our remaining scholarship for a different position player/recruit, whom we ultimately didn't land either. I can't recall who it was at the moment, without delving back into the archives. That being the case though, is why we attempted to persuade Huerter to prep for a year, which he basically laughed off and shortly afterwards committed to Maryland.

As Jay Bilas said after the sanctions hit, since Syracuse typically only plays approximately 7 guys, the 3 lost scholarships, albeit nothing to sneeze at, wouldn't be a significant detriment to the Orange as far as their on court performance went. He mentioned, however, it may affect the practices because of the reductions. Alsacs has also mentioned even in these sanctions years, we still had scholarships available to give. That being the case, I am really curious who we lost solely because of the sanctions, versus those recruits simply not being interested or ultimately choosing other schools they simply liked better.

Sanctions obviously hurt us but the excuse is overblown by people who just want to excuse the mediocrity.
Dasher is the only who has presented a good argument as to why the sanctions hurt more for the lost 1 coach on the road rather than scholarship reductions.
His argument is sound and fair.
We could only have 2 coaches on the road for 2 years. Now the PS article outlined how it wasn’t bad as it could be.
Syracuse basketball coaches maneuver around NCAA sanctions during open evaluation period

I think sanctions excuse is just to make an excuse from fans who circle the wagons around JB no matter what the results are showing.
Plus the sanctions were under his watch so he deserves some of the blame for them even we were over punished.

 

[orangecuse]

Sanctions obviously hurt us but the excuse is overblown by people who just want to excuse the mediocrity.
Dasher is the only who has presented a good argument as to why the sanctions hurt more for the lost 1 coach on the road rather than scholarship reductions.
His argument is sound and fair.
We could only have 2 coaches on the road for 2 years. Now the PS article outlined how it wasn’t bad as it could be.
Syracuse basketball coaches maneuver around NCAA sanctions during open evaluation period

I think sanctions excuse is just to make an excuse from fans who circle the wagons around JB no matter what the results are showing.
Plus the sanctions were under his watch so he deserves some of the blame for them even we were over punished.

Makes sense in regards to the coach road limitations. But we still had JB and another could still go on the road. So, if there was a guy the staff identified, and really wanted, I doubt they would lose that player by JB or the other staff guy not going out on the road? I still would love to know who we lost solely because of the sanctions, as again, other than the arguable Huerter, I haven't heard any specific names.

 

[chugg21]

Makes sense in regards to the coach road limitations. But we still had JB and another could still go on the road. So, if there was a guy the staff identified, and really wanted, I doubt they would lose that player by JB or the other staff guy not going out on the road? I still would love to know who we lost solely because of the sanctions, as again, other than the arguable Huerter, I haven't heard any specific names.

People making it like this is football and they are going after 200 kids. How many kids do we even make committable offers to and recruit hard in a given year, a dozen maybe?